Buying Your Way Out Of Prison

Buying Your Way Out Of Prison

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Discussion

KTMsm

Original Poster:

28,810 posts

277 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...

2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't

If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !

MadCaptainJack

1,188 posts

54 months

Friday 10th January
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I suspect that problem is that all his assets are in Bulgaria, and likely not identifiable as his.

Gastons_Revenge

456 posts

18 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Sentences of a fine or prison time have been common for decades, not sure why this is suddenly a pressing issue for you?

GasEngineer

1,427 posts

76 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Gastons_Revenge said:
Sentences of a fine or prison time have been common for decades, not sure why this is suddenly a pressing issue for you?
Is prison or fine usually the choice of the convict though?

KTMsm

Original Poster:

28,810 posts

277 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Gastons_Revenge said:
Sentences of a fine or prison time have been common for decades, not sure why this is suddenly a pressing issue for you?


I have never seen such a blatant case the theft millions of pounds does not equal a 2 year suspended sentence

I'm comfortably off but if this is the norm, I'm considering a career change

andburg

8,053 posts

183 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
wonder how much the proceeds investigation was able to work out belonged to him?

theft of millions of pounds worth doesn't mean he has that or that he sold them for market rates. Market rates for stolen good as usually much lower, they want to shift the evidence quickly and the buyers know. A good example for this in the UK is thefts of yankee candles, large ones at £30 a pop get sold for about a fiver according to a magistrate i know. This guy's assets are likely not in the UK so we can't take them, sticking him in jail apparently costs the taxpayer over 50k a year so if repays and does 2 years not 7 the nation is better off by over a million pounds

Dingu

4,885 posts

44 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Good luck finding the prison space for your preferred sentence.

You must have been living under a rock not to know how proceeds of crime recovery works. That’s distinct from the base sentence which is the suspended one.

essayer

10,157 posts

208 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
3.5 years inside for £800k doesn't seem so bad


pavarotti1980

5,706 posts

98 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
KTMsm said:
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...

2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't

If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
That will be due to the fine or prison being from a Proceeds of Crime investigation and not from the original offence. The article states this.

If he fails to pay the £££ then this will invoke the 2 years custodial sentence for the original offence and a further 7 for failure to pay the required PoC amount in the time given.

[b]He was subject to a proceeds of crime act investigation and ordered to pay back a total of £873,852.48.

If he fails to he will face an additional seven years imprisonment.[/b]

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 10th January 12:16

XCP

17,389 posts

242 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Fine default warrants used to be a thing.

Come up with the money or go to prison. Your choice.

ChevronB19

7,684 posts

177 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
KTMsm said:
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...

2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't

If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
I think you’re misunderstanding the article. This isn’t unusual. Sentenced to prison, and if he doesn’t repay within a specific timescale, more prison.

whimsical ninja

220 posts

41 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
The disparity in the sentences comes from their being different parts of the law.

The 2 year suspended sentence is for the crime itself.

On top of that, there's a POCA confiscation order. That mandates him to repay the £800k within a certain time frame. If he FAILS to pay he becomes liable for the default which is punishable with imprisonment.

The imprisonment is fixed in law (see s35 POCA and S10 Serious Crime Act 2015) which show that where a confiscation order is for £500k to £1m, the fixed term of imprisonment is 7 years. Which means that it's a powerful tool!

Criminals HATE having their money taken away.

Mr_Megalomaniac

993 posts

80 months

Friday 10th January
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>Hristo Chenchev
I miss having the dealth penalty in this country.

MDMA .

9,543 posts

115 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Can the law not be changed so all foreign nationals sentenced to prison be deported immediately and serve their time in their home country? I’d also include the deportation of all other family members who are in the country with them.

KTMsm

Original Poster:

28,810 posts

277 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
whimsical ninja said:
The disparity in the sentences comes from their being different parts of the law.

The 2 year suspended sentence is for the crime itself.
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft

whimsical ninja

220 posts

41 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
KTMsm said:
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft
That I can't answer - from reading the article the criminal conviction (which reads like a conviction after trial rather than a guilty plea) was for money laundering offences rather than theft - but these are sentenced even more harshly than theft itself. Leading role, harm 3 (£500k-£2m) has a starting point of 7 years, so we must be missing something.

Hill92

4,900 posts

204 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
whimsical ninja said:
KTMsm said:
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft
That I can't answer - from reading the article the criminal conviction (which reads like a conviction after trial rather than a guilty plea) was for money laundering offences rather than theft - but these are sentenced even more harshly than theft itself. Leading role, harm 3 (£500k-£2m) has a starting point of 7 years, so we must be missing something.
According to the Oxford Mail at the time, the trial collapsed and the jury was discharged. He then pled guilty to conspiring to convert criminal property under s327 POCA.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23405490.unpaid-...

There's no details about the level of culpability or value assessed for sentencing in the criminal trial. The trial coverage suggests he wasn't part of the gang stealing the tractors. Instead he was the buyer for at least some of them. So the criminal prosecution might have gone after him for a specific instance with a lower value and level B-C culpability, which would bring a 2 year sentence into range with the decision to suspend the sentence then made subsequently.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magi...

Whereas the subsequent POCA forfeiture investigation might have identified other criminal assets that he couldn't explain.

Simpo Two

88,870 posts

279 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
MDMA . said:
Can the law not be changed so all foreign nationals sentenced to prison be deported immediately and serve their time in their home country? I’d also include the deportation of all other family members who are in the country with them.
Keeping him in a UK jail is just costing the taxpayer money. First hit on Google says 'The overall average cost for running a prison place for a year (per prison place) in 2022-23 was £51,724.' So a seven year sentence costs £362K.

I'm with MDMA. But it will never happen because we're too soft, or the liberals will cry wacist.

Tommo87

5,194 posts

127 months

Saturday 11th January
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Instant deportation of the criminal and all dependents after the prison sentence would probably be a better deterrent than the sentence itself.