Buying Your Way Out Of Prison
Buying Your Way Out Of Prison
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KTMsm

Original Poster:

28,977 posts

279 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...

2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't

If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !

MadCaptainJack

1,214 posts

56 months

Friday 10th January
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I suspect that problem is that all his assets are in Bulgaria, and likely not identifiable as his.

Gastons_Revenge

463 posts

20 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Sentences of a fine or prison time have been common for decades, not sure why this is suddenly a pressing issue for you?

GasEngineer

1,559 posts

78 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Gastons_Revenge said:
Sentences of a fine or prison time have been common for decades, not sure why this is suddenly a pressing issue for you?
Is prison or fine usually the choice of the convict though?

KTMsm

Original Poster:

28,977 posts

279 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Gastons_Revenge said:
Sentences of a fine or prison time have been common for decades, not sure why this is suddenly a pressing issue for you?


I have never seen such a blatant case the theft millions of pounds does not equal a 2 year suspended sentence

I'm comfortably off but if this is the norm, I'm considering a career change

andburg

8,189 posts

185 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
wonder how much the proceeds investigation was able to work out belonged to him?

theft of millions of pounds worth doesn't mean he has that or that he sold them for market rates. Market rates for stolen good as usually much lower, they want to shift the evidence quickly and the buyers know. A good example for this in the UK is thefts of yankee candles, large ones at £30 a pop get sold for about a fiver according to a magistrate i know. This guy's assets are likely not in the UK so we can't take them, sticking him in jail apparently costs the taxpayer over 50k a year so if repays and does 2 years not 7 the nation is better off by over a million pounds

Dingu

4,893 posts

46 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Good luck finding the prison space for your preferred sentence.

You must have been living under a rock not to know how proceeds of crime recovery works. That’s distinct from the base sentence which is the suspended one.

essayer

10,220 posts

210 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
3.5 years inside for £800k doesn't seem so bad


pavarotti1980

5,795 posts

100 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
KTMsm said:
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...

2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't

If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
That will be due to the fine or prison being from a Proceeds of Crime investigation and not from the original offence. The article states this.

If he fails to pay the £££ then this will invoke the 2 years custodial sentence for the original offence and a further 7 for failure to pay the required PoC amount in the time given.

[b]He was subject to a proceeds of crime act investigation and ordered to pay back a total of £873,852.48.

If he fails to he will face an additional seven years imprisonment.[/b]

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 10th January 12:16

XCP

17,462 posts

244 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Fine default warrants used to be a thing.

Come up with the money or go to prison. Your choice.

ChevronB19

8,145 posts

179 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
KTMsm said:
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...

2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't

If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
I think you’re misunderstanding the article. This isn’t unusual. Sentenced to prison, and if he doesn’t repay within a specific timescale, more prison.

whimsical ninja

230 posts

43 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
The disparity in the sentences comes from their being different parts of the law.

The 2 year suspended sentence is for the crime itself.

On top of that, there's a POCA confiscation order. That mandates him to repay the £800k within a certain time frame. If he FAILS to pay he becomes liable for the default which is punishable with imprisonment.

The imprisonment is fixed in law (see s35 POCA and S10 Serious Crime Act 2015) which show that where a confiscation order is for £500k to £1m, the fixed term of imprisonment is 7 years. Which means that it's a powerful tool!

Criminals HATE having their money taken away.

Mr_Megalomaniac

1,013 posts

82 months

Friday 10th January
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>Hristo Chenchev
I miss having the dealth penalty in this country.

MDMA .

9,660 posts

117 months

Friday 10th January
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Can the law not be changed so all foreign nationals sentenced to prison be deported immediately and serve their time in their home country? I’d also include the deportation of all other family members who are in the country with them.

KTMsm

Original Poster:

28,977 posts

279 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
whimsical ninja said:
The disparity in the sentences comes from their being different parts of the law.

The 2 year suspended sentence is for the crime itself.
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft

whimsical ninja

230 posts

43 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
KTMsm said:
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft
That I can't answer - from reading the article the criminal conviction (which reads like a conviction after trial rather than a guilty plea) was for money laundering offences rather than theft - but these are sentenced even more harshly than theft itself. Leading role, harm 3 (£500k-£2m) has a starting point of 7 years, so we must be missing something.

Hill92

4,962 posts

206 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
whimsical ninja said:
KTMsm said:
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft
That I can't answer - from reading the article the criminal conviction (which reads like a conviction after trial rather than a guilty plea) was for money laundering offences rather than theft - but these are sentenced even more harshly than theft itself. Leading role, harm 3 (£500k-£2m) has a starting point of 7 years, so we must be missing something.
According to the Oxford Mail at the time, the trial collapsed and the jury was discharged. He then pled guilty to conspiring to convert criminal property under s327 POCA.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23405490.unpaid-...

There's no details about the level of culpability or value assessed for sentencing in the criminal trial. The trial coverage suggests he wasn't part of the gang stealing the tractors. Instead he was the buyer for at least some of them. So the criminal prosecution might have gone after him for a specific instance with a lower value and level B-C culpability, which would bring a 2 year sentence into range with the decision to suspend the sentence then made subsequently.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magi...

Whereas the subsequent POCA forfeiture investigation might have identified other criminal assets that he couldn't explain.

Simpo Two

89,391 posts

281 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
MDMA . said:
Can the law not be changed so all foreign nationals sentenced to prison be deported immediately and serve their time in their home country? I’d also include the deportation of all other family members who are in the country with them.
Keeping him in a UK jail is just costing the taxpayer money. First hit on Google says 'The overall average cost for running a prison place for a year (per prison place) in 2022-23 was £51,724.' So a seven year sentence costs £362K.

I'm with MDMA. But it will never happen because we're too soft, or the liberals will cry wacist.

Tommo87

5,276 posts

129 months

Saturday 11th January
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Instant deportation of the criminal and all dependents after the prison sentence would probably be a better deterrent than the sentence itself.