Buying Your Way Out Of Prison
Buying Your Way Out Of Prison
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Discussion

KTMsm

Original Poster:

28,982 posts

291 months

Friday 10th January 2025
quotequote all
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...

2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't

If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !

MadCaptainJack

1,721 posts

68 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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I suspect that problem is that all his assets are in Bulgaria, and likely not identifiable as his.

Gastons_Revenge

463 posts

32 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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Sentences of a fine or prison time have been common for decades, not sure why this is suddenly a pressing issue for you?

GasEngineer

2,335 posts

90 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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Gastons_Revenge said:
Sentences of a fine or prison time have been common for decades, not sure why this is suddenly a pressing issue for you?
Is prison or fine usually the choice of the convict though?

KTMsm

Original Poster:

28,982 posts

291 months

Friday 10th January 2025
quotequote all
Gastons_Revenge said:
Sentences of a fine or prison time have been common for decades, not sure why this is suddenly a pressing issue for you?


I have never seen such a blatant case the theft millions of pounds does not equal a 2 year suspended sentence

I'm comfortably off but if this is the norm, I'm considering a career change

andburg

8,692 posts

197 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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wonder how much the proceeds investigation was able to work out belonged to him?

theft of millions of pounds worth doesn't mean he has that or that he sold them for market rates. Market rates for stolen good as usually much lower, they want to shift the evidence quickly and the buyers know. A good example for this in the UK is thefts of yankee candles, large ones at £30 a pop get sold for about a fiver according to a magistrate i know. This guy's assets are likely not in the UK so we can't take them, sticking him in jail apparently costs the taxpayer over 50k a year so if repays and does 2 years not 7 the nation is better off by over a million pounds

Dingu

4,893 posts

58 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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Good luck finding the prison space for your preferred sentence.

You must have been living under a rock not to know how proceeds of crime recovery works. That’s distinct from the base sentence which is the suspended one.

essayer

10,410 posts

222 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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3.5 years inside for £800k doesn't seem so bad


pavarotti1980

6,278 posts

112 months

Friday 10th January 2025
quotequote all
KTMsm said:
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...

2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't

If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
That will be due to the fine or prison being from a Proceeds of Crime investigation and not from the original offence. The article states this.

If he fails to pay the £££ then this will invoke the 2 years custodial sentence for the original offence and a further 7 for failure to pay the required PoC amount in the time given.

[b]He was subject to a proceeds of crime act investigation and ordered to pay back a total of £873,852.48.

If he fails to he will face an additional seven years imprisonment.[/b]

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 10th January 12:16

XCP

17,669 posts

256 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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Fine default warrants used to be a thing.

Come up with the money or go to prison. Your choice.

ChevronB19

8,821 posts

191 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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KTMsm said:
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...

2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't

If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
I think you’re misunderstanding the article. This isn’t unusual. Sentenced to prison, and if he doesn’t repay within a specific timescale, more prison.

whimsical ninja

262 posts

55 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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The disparity in the sentences comes from their being different parts of the law.

The 2 year suspended sentence is for the crime itself.

On top of that, there's a POCA confiscation order. That mandates him to repay the £800k within a certain time frame. If he FAILS to pay he becomes liable for the default which is punishable with imprisonment.

The imprisonment is fixed in law (see s35 POCA and S10 Serious Crime Act 2015) which show that where a confiscation order is for £500k to £1m, the fixed term of imprisonment is 7 years. Which means that it's a powerful tool!

Criminals HATE having their money taken away.

Mr_Megalomaniac

1,263 posts

94 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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>Hristo Chenchev
I miss having the dealth penalty in this country.

MDMA .

10,607 posts

129 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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Can the law not be changed so all foreign nationals sentenced to prison be deported immediately and serve their time in their home country? I’d also include the deportation of all other family members who are in the country with them.

KTMsm

Original Poster:

28,982 posts

291 months

Friday 10th January 2025
quotequote all
whimsical ninja said:
The disparity in the sentences comes from their being different parts of the law.

The 2 year suspended sentence is for the crime itself.
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft

whimsical ninja

262 posts

55 months

Friday 10th January 2025
quotequote all
KTMsm said:
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft
That I can't answer - from reading the article the criminal conviction (which reads like a conviction after trial rather than a guilty plea) was for money laundering offences rather than theft - but these are sentenced even more harshly than theft itself. Leading role, harm 3 (£500k-£2m) has a starting point of 7 years, so we must be missing something.

Hill92

5,381 posts

218 months

Friday 10th January 2025
quotequote all
whimsical ninja said:
KTMsm said:
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft
That I can't answer - from reading the article the criminal conviction (which reads like a conviction after trial rather than a guilty plea) was for money laundering offences rather than theft - but these are sentenced even more harshly than theft itself. Leading role, harm 3 (£500k-£2m) has a starting point of 7 years, so we must be missing something.
According to the Oxford Mail at the time, the trial collapsed and the jury was discharged. He then pled guilty to conspiring to convert criminal property under s327 POCA.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23405490.unpaid-...

There's no details about the level of culpability or value assessed for sentencing in the criminal trial. The trial coverage suggests he wasn't part of the gang stealing the tractors. Instead he was the buyer for at least some of them. So the criminal prosecution might have gone after him for a specific instance with a lower value and level B-C culpability, which would bring a 2 year sentence into range with the decision to suspend the sentence then made subsequently.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magi...

Whereas the subsequent POCA forfeiture investigation might have identified other criminal assets that he couldn't explain.

Simpo Two

92,468 posts

293 months

Friday 10th January 2025
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MDMA . said:
Can the law not be changed so all foreign nationals sentenced to prison be deported immediately and serve their time in their home country? I’d also include the deportation of all other family members who are in the country with them.
Keeping him in a UK jail is just costing the taxpayer money. First hit on Google says 'The overall average cost for running a prison place for a year (per prison place) in 2022-23 was £51,724.' So a seven year sentence costs £362K.

I'm with MDMA. But it will never happen because we're too soft, or the liberals will cry wacist.

Tommo87

5,450 posts

141 months

Saturday 11th January 2025
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Instant deportation of the criminal and all dependents after the prison sentence would probably be a better deterrent than the sentence itself.