Double glazing in a listed building
Discussion
I'm interested in people's experience with this. We are looking to replace rotten windows in our grade 2 listed georgian house. To do this we will need listed buildings consent. Do you think it's worth applying to replace the windows with double glazed timber units in the original style or is this likely to be rejected? Thanks
It depends on the local conservation officer and the windows you are proposing to install ? Every situation is different unfortunately. Precedent can help so if any neighbours have had it done and have got permission I’d be asking which window company they used.
We have some double glazed replacement windows and some refurbished secondary glazed windows which couldn’t be replaced easily due to shutters inside. Some of the timber was rotten etc. The thermal performance/draught proofing of the secondary glazed windows is very good and you you don’t really see the secondary glazing unless you look for it…but they were expensive to do
We have some double glazed replacement windows and some refurbished secondary glazed windows which couldn’t be replaced easily due to shutters inside. Some of the timber was rotten etc. The thermal performance/draught proofing of the secondary glazed windows is very good and you you don’t really see the secondary glazing unless you look for it…but they were expensive to do
I would get in touch with your conservation officer and check with them what their attitude is. They'll be guided by this:
https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/technical-ad...
and there are plenty of other pages from Historic England on double glazing and what they prefer - should enable you to make a decision that keeps everyone happy.
https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/technical-ad...
and there are plenty of other pages from Historic England on double glazing and what they prefer - should enable you to make a decision that keeps everyone happy.
Sash windows are often good candidates for secondary glazing as the timber bits of a sash window aren't great thermally and making them draft proof is hard. Obviously they need to be pretty draught proof to make secondary glazing work well, but it's still more forgiving than just using double glazed panes. Secondary also lets you retain any old, wobbly glass currently in your window. Replacing that with modern float glass really changed the look of a window. You can get wobbly double glazing panels for sash windows, but they're not cheap.
We have friends who have bought an Edwardian house on a seafront, timber single glazed windows, not listed.
But it's in a conservation area so they are not allowed to replace with D/G ones.
Some other friends have a Grade 2 hall house with single glazed; replacement windows were allowed as the old ones were rotten but not allowed double glazed ones.
All this at a time when we're being almost forced out of our IC engined cars, told to fit air source heat pumps etc etc
Crazy!!
But it's in a conservation area so they are not allowed to replace with D/G ones.
Some other friends have a Grade 2 hall house with single glazed; replacement windows were allowed as the old ones were rotten but not allowed double glazed ones.
All this at a time when we're being almost forced out of our IC engined cars, told to fit air source heat pumps etc etc
Crazy!!
anomaly said:
I'm interested in people's experience with this. We are looking to replace rotten windows in our grade 2 listed georgian house. To do this we will need listed buildings consent. Do you think it's worth applying to replace the windows with double glazed timber units in the original style or is this likely to be rejected? Thanks
Entirely depends on the Conservation Officer’s view.Be careful what you wish for though. Changing to more modern glass can really affect the aesthetics of the building, and not necessarily for the better. There are a couple of places make double glazing with restoration glass, which is what I’d want if we ever changed.
New and old….obviosuly you can tell the upstairs one is new but we’re pleased with the match to the original
Refurbished window with secondary glazing. (which is removable). Windows still open as normal, this obviously requires some fairly major work but for us we think it was worth it.
Refurbished window with secondary glazing. (which is removable). Windows still open as normal, this obviously requires some fairly major work but for us we think it was worth it.
The opinion from our CO was ‘no chance’.
They are given too much autonomy. The way he reacted was as if we were proposing replacement with Everest spec uPVC, rather than full wood sash in the same design as original.
He also won’t allow us replace a fence that is not in the original listing that blew down in a storm.
TL:DR - it’s challenging
They are given too much autonomy. The way he reacted was as if we were proposing replacement with Everest spec uPVC, rather than full wood sash in the same design as original.
He also won’t allow us replace a fence that is not in the original listing that blew down in a storm.
TL:DR - it’s challenging
ChevronB19 said:
The opinion from our CO was ‘no chance’.
They are given too much autonomy. The way he reacted was as if we were proposing replacement with Everest spec uPVC, rather than full wood sash in the same design as original.
He also won’t allow us replace a fence that is not in the original listing that blew down in a storm.
TL:DR - it’s challenging
We are up against this sort of attitude in our place at present, the windows are wooden framed sash type, with double glazed panels. We have been told by the CO, and HE, that any replacements have to be identical to the originals. That’s difficult, because the company that did the windows originally, don’t exist anymore. Blue printed numbers, from another manufacturer, are the only option we’ve been given. They cost a staggering amount, so there’s a bit of a Mexican standoff going on at present.They are given too much autonomy. The way he reacted was as if we were proposing replacement with Everest spec uPVC, rather than full wood sash in the same design as original.
He also won’t allow us replace a fence that is not in the original listing that blew down in a storm.
TL:DR - it’s challenging
Metric Max said:
We have friends who have bought an Edwardian house on a seafront, timber single glazed windows, not listed.
But it's in a conservation area so they are not allowed to replace with D/G ones.
Some other friends have a Grade 2 hall house with single glazed; replacement windows were allowed as the old ones were rotten but not allowed double glazed ones.
All this at a time when we're being almost forced out of our IC engined cars, told to fit air source heat pumps etc etc
Crazy!!
We are in an annex 4 conservation area and have recently replaced our rotten windows with UPVC double glazed sash windows.But it's in a conservation area so they are not allowed to replace with D/G ones.
Some other friends have a Grade 2 hall house with single glazed; replacement windows were allowed as the old ones were rotten but not allowed double glazed ones.
All this at a time when we're being almost forced out of our IC engined cars, told to fit air source heat pumps etc etc
Crazy!!
Best thing to do is contact your local conservation officer. (Although our was useless and we eventually had to go to national appeal to get the decision changed).
We had a chat with our conservation officer and he was happy with something called heritage double glazing providing the windows were exactly the same style and made of wood.
It looked ok when I ordered it and they were supposed to be fitted last week but the weather has caused a delay.
It looked ok when I ordered it and they were supposed to be fitted last week but the weather has caused a delay.
355spider said:
At least when buying these properties people know what they are getting themselves in for, but I for one would not touch one with a barge pole.
My friend was in a similar position OP, his request was refused.
When we bought our current house we were also looking at a 16th/17th century listed property which had steel crittal windows in…which were clearly not original.My friend was in a similar position OP, his request was refused.
I looked at the planning history…the owners had applied to have the windows replaced having got a conservation specialist involved because it was quite an unusual building. Answer from the CO was “The current windows are not correct but I do not know what style of window is so permission denied”
Unbelievable! Or maybe not but these people’s default position seems to be “Do nothing”
Cheib said:
New and old….obviosuly you can tell the upstairs one is new but we’re pleased with the match to the original
Refurbished window with secondary glazing. (which is removable). Windows still open as normal, this obviously requires some fairly major work but for us we think it was worth it.
Lovely window. Where is the secondary glazing here? Refurbished window with secondary glazing. (which is removable). Windows still open as normal, this obviously requires some fairly major work but for us we think it was worth it.
Thanks all for your really helpful comments. We absolutely want replacement windows to look as close to original as possible while ideally have a little more thermal efficiency. Secondary glazing may be an option however it may be tricky with the design of some windows and shutters and I'm not particularly keen on the look.
I find aspects of the planning process for listed buildings frustrating. As others have mentioned, the Conservation Officers wield a lot of power and can differ in their interpretation of the rules.
I find aspects of the planning process for listed buildings frustrating. As others have mentioned, the Conservation Officers wield a lot of power and can differ in their interpretation of the rules.
A half way house is to get the existing windows refurbished, with draught excluder brushes installed around the sashes. We had this done to a Listed Georgian lump and it was effective at eliminating draughts. Obviously you still have to cope with the thermal performance of single glazing but it makes a difference.
Your best approach would be to look up your LA's policy on carbon reduction, run some calcs to demostrate how much carbon you would save by doing new double glazed windows as opposed to single/refurbishment and then make the argument - this can be compelling and very hard to ignore particulary if they have clearly expressed policies on carbon reduction as almost every LPA will.
Don't forget, the CO does not decide the application - he/she only advises the planning case officer who can then decide by weighing the pros and cons. It may be punted to committee but I have know this tactic/fact based approach to be succesful on at least one occassion unless you are GI or GII*
Don't forget, the CO does not decide the application - he/she only advises the planning case officer who can then decide by weighing the pros and cons. It may be punted to committee but I have know this tactic/fact based approach to be succesful on at least one occassion unless you are GI or GII*
TVR Sagaris said:
Cheib said:
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