Discussion
There's no ongoing argument here, I'm just curious as to what the position is.
I walk past a house most days on my dog walk. About 18 months ago they had the council drop the kerb in front of their front garden, and at the same time they knocked down the brick wall on their front boundary with the pavement. However, there is a drop of about 12 inches from the pavement level down into their front lawn ... meaning it would be impossible to park anything other than a modified 4x4 on their front lawn.
I assumed they would quickly have work done to put in a driveway, bringing the level up to match the pavement ... but that hasn't happened. No idea why, but over a year later and they still have a dropped kerb, a knocked down wall and a front lawn at a lower level than the pavement.
So what is the legal position on parking in front of a drop kerb that doesn't have a useable driveway behind it? By and large people tend to avoid parking in front of it, despite it being near a school and parents seem to abandon their cars willy nilly on the road in the pursuit of making their walk to the school gate 30 seconds quicker.
I walk past a house most days on my dog walk. About 18 months ago they had the council drop the kerb in front of their front garden, and at the same time they knocked down the brick wall on their front boundary with the pavement. However, there is a drop of about 12 inches from the pavement level down into their front lawn ... meaning it would be impossible to park anything other than a modified 4x4 on their front lawn.
I assumed they would quickly have work done to put in a driveway, bringing the level up to match the pavement ... but that hasn't happened. No idea why, but over a year later and they still have a dropped kerb, a knocked down wall and a front lawn at a lower level than the pavement.
So what is the legal position on parking in front of a drop kerb that doesn't have a useable driveway behind it? By and large people tend to avoid parking in front of it, despite it being near a school and parents seem to abandon their cars willy nilly on the road in the pursuit of making their walk to the school gate 30 seconds quicker.
In a Restricted Area it is an offence to park across a dropped kerb. for simplicity, these days most councils are in a Restricted Area.
However, the owner of the property to which the dropped kerb gives access DOES have the right to park across the dropped kerb (or in fact anyone, with their permission).
In this instance the house owner probably did it so they could park in front of their house. However, they can’t enforce it - the Council can issue tickets (fines) to do so.
However, the owner of the property to which the dropped kerb gives access DOES have the right to park across the dropped kerb (or in fact anyone, with their permission).
In this instance the house owner probably did it so they could park in front of their house. However, they can’t enforce it - the Council can issue tickets (fines) to do so.
Pica-Pica said:
James6112 said:
I thought that legally, you can’t block a car leaving their drive, otherwise you can park across it .
My memory may be deceiving me though.
That is my understanding - other restrictions aside - you can block someone from entering, but you can’t block them from leaving.My memory may be deceiving me though.
What you've both mentioned is in relation to the offence of unnecessary obstruction.
But there is also the matter of simply parking across a dropped kerb which may result in a PCN from the local council.
Where I live, Sefton council, are notoriously slow to approve dropped kerbs and there’s only certain random parts of the year you can actually apply to have a dropped kerb and then once you get the dropped kerb approved it must be done (by the council contractors) within a set period.
Might be similar where you live.
Alternatively they may have applied for the dropped kerb, and then not considered they need planning permission (as council depts don’t talk to each other) and now they can’t get it.
Finally, it looks like it will be a decent sized job considering the height changes and they fact surface water will run off towards the house so some decent draining and likely a soakaway might be needed. They could be waiting for their preferred contractor to be available to do the job, or they simply might be saving up to do the job.
Might be similar where you live.
Alternatively they may have applied for the dropped kerb, and then not considered they need planning permission (as council depts don’t talk to each other) and now they can’t get it.
Finally, it looks like it will be a decent sized job considering the height changes and they fact surface water will run off towards the house so some decent draining and likely a soakaway might be needed. They could be waiting for their preferred contractor to be available to do the job, or they simply might be saving up to do the job.
We have just applied here (East Yorks) and the way it works here is if/when approved you have a set period to get the dropped kerb done.
At that point you have to be starting/started work on the property side but completion can be any time scale.
I am guessing this is similar and they have only afterwards realised either the size or cast of the job, so it has stalled.
They will need to install some serious drainage as the house is lower than the kerb & possibly also lift the level of the frontage which will require some serious amount of in-fill, both will cost a lot, so this could be the delay.
At that point you have to be starting/started work on the property side but completion can be any time scale.
I am guessing this is similar and they have only afterwards realised either the size or cast of the job, so it has stalled.
They will need to install some serious drainage as the house is lower than the kerb & possibly also lift the level of the frontage which will require some serious amount of in-fill, both will cost a lot, so this could be the delay.
PhilboSE said:
However, the owner of the property to which the dropped kerb gives access DOES have the right to park across the dropped kerb (or in fact anyone, with their permission).
If that was true anyone could park without much fear of a ticket because a warden wouldn’t know which vehicle has permission and which doesn’t. The home owner would have to report unauthorised parking and hope a warden comes before the car moves. In my experience they come next day at best likely not at all.trickywoo said:
PhilboSE said:
However, the owner of the property to which the dropped kerb gives access DOES have the right to park across the dropped kerb (or in fact anyone, with their permission).
If that was true anyone could park without much fear of a ticket because a warden wouldn’t know which vehicle has permission and which doesn’t. The home owner would have to report unauthorised parking and hope a warden comes before the car moves. In my experience they come next day at best likely not at all.See the Traffic Management Act 2004, Clause 86 Part (3).
The issues over enforcement are separate from whether it’s true or not. However, it’s entirely possible to tell the Council to ticket anyone across the dropped kerb, and then have tickets rescinded for anyone who was parked there with permission.
In my case the Council also asked for the registration plates of my vehicles so they could avoid issuing tickets to them at all.
PhilboSE said:
Well, it is true. There is no “if” about it.
See the Traffic Management Act 2004, Clause 86 Part (3).
The issues over enforcement are separate from whether it’s true or not. However, it’s entirely possible to tell the Council to ticket anyone across the dropped kerb, and then have tickets rescinded for anyone who was parked there with permission.
In my case the Council also asked for the registration plates of my vehicles so they could avoid issuing tickets to them at all.
You seem confused by the difference between across and adjacent.See the Traffic Management Act 2004, Clause 86 Part (3).
The issues over enforcement are separate from whether it’s true or not. However, it’s entirely possible to tell the Council to ticket anyone across the dropped kerb, and then have tickets rescinded for anyone who was parked there with permission.
In my case the Council also asked for the registration plates of my vehicles so they could avoid issuing tickets to them at all.
trickywoo said:
PhilboSE said:
Well, it is true. There is no “if” about it.
See the Traffic Management Act 2004, Clause 86 Part (3).
The issues over enforcement are separate from whether it’s true or not. However, it’s entirely possible to tell the Council to ticket anyone across the dropped kerb, and then have tickets rescinded for anyone who was parked there with permission.
In my case the Council also asked for the registration plates of my vehicles so they could avoid issuing tickets to them at all.
You seem confused by the difference between across and adjacent.See the Traffic Management Act 2004, Clause 86 Part (3).
The issues over enforcement are separate from whether it’s true or not. However, it’s entirely possible to tell the Council to ticket anyone across the dropped kerb, and then have tickets rescinded for anyone who was parked there with permission.
In my case the Council also asked for the registration plates of my vehicles so they could avoid issuing tickets to them at all.
trickywoo said:
PhilboSE said:
However, the owner of the property to which the dropped kerb gives access DOES have the right to park across the dropped kerb (or in fact anyone, with their permission).
If that was true anyone could park without much fear of a ticket because a warden wouldn’t know which vehicle has permission and which doesn’t. The home owner would have to report unauthorised parking and hope a warden comes before the car moves. In my experience they come next day at best likely not at all.The alternative is to ticket anyway and let people speak if they were parked across their own driveway. "I am the resident or I had the resident's permission" would be valid ground for appeal.
Pica-Pica said:
James6112 said:
I thought that legally, you can’t block a car leaving their drive, otherwise you can park across it .
My memory may be deceiving me though.
That is my understanding - other restrictions aside - you can block someone from entering, but you can’t block them from leaving.My memory may be deceiving me though.
In a special enforcement area at least (which if the large majority of the country these days) it's just plain illegal to park across a dropped kerb unless your covered by one of the exceptions (loading, dropping off passengers, blocking own driveway etc). "There was nobody parked on the driveway" isn't one of the exceptions.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/secti...
Rotary Potato said:
So what is the legal position on parking in front of a drop kerb that doesn't have a useable driveway behind it?
It would seem to depend on this part"Where the footway, cycle track or verge has been lowered to meet the level of the carriageway for the purpose of—
(i)assisting pedestrians crossing the carriageway,
(ii)assisting cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, or
(iii)assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the footway, cycle track or verge"
Can it have been lowered "for the purpose of assisting vehicles entering our leaving the carriageway" if there's nowhere for then to leave to? It feels arguably at least that it can't have been - and if not there's no prohibition on parking.
OTOH it's also arguable that the fact that they haven't built the driveway yet doesn't change the fact that it was lowered for the purpose of accessing the driveway when it eventually appears, so maybe the prohibition of parking there does apply.
Probably not a situation that the legislators have much thought to when the law was drafted... it would ultimately be something for a tribunal to interrupt.
There is a dropped kerb near me, with a building beyond the pavement. I think it was once a garage, but they redeveloped it as an extension to their house. People park there all the time without consequence as the dropped kerb leads to a brick wall.
I’d risk parking in the OP’s scenario if stuck for options, otherwise would park elsewhere.
I’d risk parking in the OP’s scenario if stuck for options, otherwise would park elsewhere.
solo2 said:
My local council charged me £3k to put in a dropped kerb and then even more to move the lamp post about 3ft to one side.
Maybe the home owner cannot afford to put in the finished driveway just yet.
If I remember correctly the local council charge £50 for the application pack, around £120 for the survey, the rest is up to you to engage the services of a council approved contractor, but not actually the council.Maybe the home owner cannot afford to put in the finished driveway just yet.
Rotary Potato said:
Thank you all for your thoughts.
If it helps, I went past it on today's dog walk & got a quick pic to show the current state of play in case it helps anyone visualise.
[Img]https://i.imgur.com/sf5Wopv.jpeg[/thumb]
Personally, I would try not to worry about it.If it helps, I went past it on today's dog walk & got a quick pic to show the current state of play in case it helps anyone visualise.
[Img]https://i.imgur.com/sf5Wopv.jpeg[/thumb]
It doesn't affect you, so it's "bonne la douche, innit?" as Derek Trotter would have said.
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