Xpeng, Aehra, Lucid, Zeekr, Seres, Hongqi and Rivian

[TheDeuce]

Interesting summary of the influx of new car brands about to enter the UK market - how rapidly times are chnaging! https://www.selectcarleasing.co.uk/news/article/ne...

This next year is set to be brutal for the legacy manufacturers which haven't established an attractive range of EV cars to date - VW perhaps the most likely to be crapping themselves right now. Also Vauxhall... I genuinely can't remember the last time I heard anyone talking about maybe getting a vauxhall - that entire market seems to have shuffled off to KIA now.

Did anyone expect the influx of new brands to change the motoring landscape in the UK so quickly?

[5s Alive]

Not when I saw my first Great Wall in Oz, 2011, the automotive landscape is changing so fast that I can barely keep up now. The Xpeng G6 is incredibly well specified, I'll have the standard version in orange thank you. Or at least I would if a larger LFP battery pack was available.
The extended range version has a bigger NMC pack!

[Muddle238]

Scrolling through the list of brands in the Autotrader filters already tells you that the Chinese invasion has already begun. Seems almost weekly that a new, unknown manufacturer appears in the list.

[ChocolateFrog]

It's a shame Lucid are not already here, I'd love a used one.

I feel very little sentimentality towards the legacy brands. Germany is fked, about to head into their 3rd year of recession whereas somehow probably by pure luck and incompetence we're not actually in that bad a position.

I only have to look at a Porsche options list to want to welcome the likes of Xaomi over with open arms.

[Byker28i]

Is this partially down to China reverse engineering the tesla motors and battery packs then selling their versions cheap?

Tesla sales stall as China's BYD closes in
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36edjp1l9ko

Why Chinese EVs are displacing Teslas
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2...

[kambites]

Byker28i said:

Is this partially down to China reverse engineering the tesla motors and battery packs then selling their versions cheap?

I doubt it. There's nothing particularly special about Tesla's drive-trains from an engineering perspective. As an engineering (as opposed to chemistry) exercise, batteries are pretty simple and there's only so much you can do with a motor.

I think it's just a matter of the demise of ICE resetting the hardest bit of "building a car", allowing new companies to enter the market without needing decades of experience. The legacy manufacturers have become complacent relying on the value of their engine IP which is now quickly becoming worthless. Kia/Hyundai are showing that the transition from ICE to EV is perfectly possible whilst remaining competitive.

Edited by kambites on Saturday 18th January 16:30

[gmaz]

I always thought the Ora Funky Cat was a better name than the "03". Now they are releasing the Haval Jolion Pro ?????

[kambites]

TheDeuce said:

Also Vauxhall... I genuinely can't remember the last time I heard anyone talking about maybe getting a vauxhall - that entire market seems to have shuffled off to KIA now.

The Mokka Electric seems pretty popular around here. It'll be interesting to see how the Astra Electric does, they're pushing out some pretty competitive deals at our local dealers. The C-segment EV market is certainly hotting up since the MG4's price knocked it on its arse.

[TheDeuce]

Byker28i said:

Is this partially down to China reverse engineering the tesla motors and battery packs then selling their versions cheap?

Tesla sales stall as China's BYD closes in
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36edjp1l9ko

Why Chinese EVs are displacing Teslas
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2...

As per kambites comments, EV motors are actually fairly simple as an engineering challenge - compared to 'blowing st up' to shunt a car along the road...

But you're also technically right, because of course the entire motor industry reverse engineers everything in some form, even if it's just to demonstrate how much better their own solution is. But I don't expect the Chinese actually need a Tesla motor to figure it out! But they'll no doubt have several anyway, because why not learn from your competitors?

I think it's fairly obvious that the Chinese can out compete Tesla by being cheaper and throwing ever more tech at the cars within that lower cost, which consumers like.

If you want to make cars in the near future and you're not Chinese or Korean, you need your cars to have some significant USP's and also be upmarket from the level the Chinese and Koreans are targeting. This is probably why people claim car prices are getting silly - they're not all getting silly though, it's mostly just the legacy manufacturers that are now moving upmarket.

[Ardennes92]

Just as well we don’t all like the same stuff because I can’t see a looker amongst any of them, must try harder me thinks.

[JustGetATesla]

China has won, and there is little that european legacy manufacturers could do about it even if they hadn't decided that crossing their arms stamping their foot and saying "shan't" was a good defensive strategy.

Rory Reid did a recent video on Autotrader blaming the UK government Zero Emission mandate as the reason why Ford stopped making the Fiesta and Focus, why VW stopped the Polo and are stopping the Golf etc. As if the UK market is going to dictate to global brands which cars to make outside the UK for sale outside the UK.

Even if we dropped the ZEV mandate tomorrow, you still won't be able to buy a new Fiesta because Ford won't make them because *everywhere* in the west has a ZEV mandate. And Zeekr et al are coming to absolutely demolish tired old monoliths like VAG and Ford.

Ford's CEO interviewed recently bemoaning Tesla and Chinese brands in regards to software. "At Ford" he said" we outsource all that to the lowest bidder, so we have 150 suppliers in a Mach E. That means that if we want to change the seat software we have to get permission from the company who makes the part which we don't get.

This is why Omoda and Xpeng are coming and why they will win. Legacy manufacturers have sunk themselves, penny wise and pound foolish. A great deal on a seat motor Mr Ford CEO saving $0.05 per car. But now you lose the whole company...

[TheDeuce]

JustGetATesla said:

China has won, and there is little that european legacy manufacturers could do about it even if they hadn't decided that crossing their arms stamping their foot and saying "shan't" was a good defensive strategy.

Rory Reid did a recent video on Autotrader blaming the UK government Zero Emission mandate as the reason why Ford stopped making the Fiesta and Focus, why VW stopped the Polo and are stopping the Golf etc. As if the UK market is going to dictate to global brands which cars to make outside the UK for sale outside the UK.

Even if we dropped the ZEV mandate tomorrow, you still won't be able to buy a new Fiesta because Ford won't make them because *everywhere* in the west has a ZEV mandate. And Zeekr et al are coming to absolutely demolish tired old monoliths like VAG and Ford.

Ford's CEO interviewed recently bemoaning Tesla and Chinese brands in regards to software. "At Ford" he said" we outsource all that to the lowest bidder, so we have 150 suppliers in a Mach E. That means that if we want to change the seat software we have to get permission from the company who makes the part which we don't get.

This is why Omoda and Xpeng are coming and why they will win. Legacy manufacturers have sunk themselves, penny wise and pound foolish. A great deal on a seat motor Mr Ford CEO saving $0.05 per car. But now you lose the whole company...

Yep. The manufacturers know the timescale they must work to. The UK ZEV mandate accelerates things a little here, but it's not going to effect the manufacturers global plans really.

The UK just happens to have a few good domestic reasons to push BEV as hard as possible.

[TheDeuce]

Ardennes92 said:

Just as well we don’t all like the same stuff because I can’t see a looker amongst any of them, must try harder me thinks.

Rivian..? What's it supposed to look like?

Although I do generally agree. The Chinese have copied western car design for the last 20 years. If western car production diminishes, they're going to need to switch on their own imagination at some point!!