Lease/Buy/Used/New? - What's best?
Discussion
I will need a new family car in 2 months time.
After a lifetime of bangernomics, and then 5 years of having new cars provided for me I'm facing a changed world.
Bangernomics is gone, as far as I can tell.
The price and complexity of used cars means I'm very reluctant to buy at 3-5 years old, because it's still a massive punt if it turns out to be a lemon. If I go down this route, private or trade? Trade seems to have hoovered up most of the used cars. Where are private sellers selling?
Buying new means buying a massively complex car loaded with electronics and filters, if it goes wrong there seems every chance it won't be affordable to sort out.
So that leaves leases so it just gets handed back and someone else pays for any problems. But that seems pricey, as you'd expect if I farm out the risk to them. Is there any flexibility if my circumstances change? Why do they quote a monthly price and randomly include a lump sum? Just to make comparison harder, or is there some other advantage/disadvantage?
I've noticed "used lease" which would totally tick all my boxes *if* "they" take on all the maintainance and repair. Is that what happens?
A crew cab van would work well as a family car (I've had a crew cab Vivaro in the past.) I could go smaller, and have a tow bar and trailer.
I don't GAF about having a shiney car but it does have to work.
What's best?
After a lifetime of bangernomics, and then 5 years of having new cars provided for me I'm facing a changed world.
Bangernomics is gone, as far as I can tell.
The price and complexity of used cars means I'm very reluctant to buy at 3-5 years old, because it's still a massive punt if it turns out to be a lemon. If I go down this route, private or trade? Trade seems to have hoovered up most of the used cars. Where are private sellers selling?
Buying new means buying a massively complex car loaded with electronics and filters, if it goes wrong there seems every chance it won't be affordable to sort out.
So that leaves leases so it just gets handed back and someone else pays for any problems. But that seems pricey, as you'd expect if I farm out the risk to them. Is there any flexibility if my circumstances change? Why do they quote a monthly price and randomly include a lump sum? Just to make comparison harder, or is there some other advantage/disadvantage?
I've noticed "used lease" which would totally tick all my boxes *if* "they" take on all the maintainance and repair. Is that what happens?
A crew cab van would work well as a family car (I've had a crew cab Vivaro in the past.) I could go smaller, and have a tow bar and trailer.
I don't GAF about having a shiney car but it does have to work.
What's best?
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Friday 24th January 08:11
Well lots must be happy buying 5 Yr old cars, otherwise they'd be worth nothing.
I suppose the short answer is go for a pcp/lease for fixed,but definitely higher costs.
But used to save some money, but perhaps have a slush fund set aside for a repair. I still think buying used would be cheaper in the long run, even if a car throws a relatively large bill. You'd have to get quite unlucky, but I suppose its possible
I suppose the short answer is go for a pcp/lease for fixed,but definitely higher costs.
But used to save some money, but perhaps have a slush fund set aside for a repair. I still think buying used would be cheaper in the long run, even if a car throws a relatively large bill. You'd have to get quite unlucky, but I suppose its possible
Edited by covmutley on Friday 24th January 07:35
covmutley said:
Well lots must be happy buying 5 Yr old cars, otherwise they'd be worth nothing.
I suppose the short answer is go for a pcp/lease for fixed,but definitely higher costs.
But used to save some money, but perhaps have a slush fund set aside for a repair. I still think buying used would be cheaper in the long run, even if a car throws a relatively large bill. You'd have to get quite unlucky, but I suppose its possible
You're right. And £350pcm over 4 years buys a lot of fault investigation/fixing.I suppose the short answer is go for a pcp/lease for fixed,but definitely higher costs.
But used to save some money, but perhaps have a slush fund set aside for a repair. I still think buying used would be cheaper in the long run, even if a car throws a relatively large bill. You'd have to get quite unlucky, but I suppose its possible
In our household fleet we have:
Leased brand new EV every 3 years.
Zero drama. Literally just put electric & screenwash in it.
Even the tyres are covered.
This (thanks to the magic of salary sacrifice) costs us £450/m
Used prestige car on finance.
2015 Range Rover, cost £31k at 6 years old & 55k miles.
Total costs at 6 years are: £38k to buy it (including the interest on the loan) which is £527/m however there’s some residual value. So it’s worth about £16k now.
£305/m to buy it.
£100/m to tax & insure.
£100/m to maintain it (all repairs so far / 6 years)
So I reckon that my Range Rover costs £505/m to own.
90’s car.
1996 TVR Griffith.
£20k to buy but no depreciation.
I paid outright but even if I took a bank loan it would just be the interest payment amortised over time as the car isn’t depreciating.
Running costs are minimised by being DIY able.
Insurance is cheap as limited mileage but even unlimited mileage policy is still under £500.
Tax is at a lower rate too.
Reliability is questionable as it practicality.
Having said that the lack of depreciation does make it cheap to own unless it requires major work.
My wife is an accountant.
She set up a spreadsheet to compare costs when deciding if the Leased EV route was a good idea.
The reality is owning anything costs you £250 a month in fixed costs as it’s going to need tax, insurance, tyres & servicing..
The cheapest motoring you’d actually want is an older executive saloon with a smaller engine.
Something earlier than 2010 to keep it relatively DIY friendly.
Stuff like the BMW E60 520i that has no particular desirability but is fundamentally a solid car.
Leased brand new EV every 3 years.
Zero drama. Literally just put electric & screenwash in it.
Even the tyres are covered.
This (thanks to the magic of salary sacrifice) costs us £450/m
Used prestige car on finance.
2015 Range Rover, cost £31k at 6 years old & 55k miles.
Total costs at 6 years are: £38k to buy it (including the interest on the loan) which is £527/m however there’s some residual value. So it’s worth about £16k now.
£305/m to buy it.
£100/m to tax & insure.
£100/m to maintain it (all repairs so far / 6 years)
So I reckon that my Range Rover costs £505/m to own.
90’s car.
1996 TVR Griffith.
£20k to buy but no depreciation.
I paid outright but even if I took a bank loan it would just be the interest payment amortised over time as the car isn’t depreciating.
Running costs are minimised by being DIY able.
Insurance is cheap as limited mileage but even unlimited mileage policy is still under £500.
Tax is at a lower rate too.
Reliability is questionable as it practicality.
Having said that the lack of depreciation does make it cheap to own unless it requires major work.
My wife is an accountant.
She set up a spreadsheet to compare costs when deciding if the Leased EV route was a good idea.
The reality is owning anything costs you £250 a month in fixed costs as it’s going to need tax, insurance, tyres & servicing..
The cheapest motoring you’d actually want is an older executive saloon with a smaller engine.
Something earlier than 2010 to keep it relatively DIY friendly.
Stuff like the BMW E60 520i that has no particular desirability but is fundamentally a solid car.
BikeBikeBIke said:
I will need a new family car in 2 months time.
After a lifetime of bangernomics, and then 5 years of having new cars provided for me I'm facing a changed world.
Bangernomics is gone, as far as I can tell.
The price and complexity of used cars means I'm very reluctant to buy at 3-5 years old, because it's still a massive punt if it turns out to be a lemon. If I go down this route, private or trade? Trade seems to have hoovered up most of the used cars. Where are private sellers selling?
Buying new means buying a massively complex car loaded with electronics and filters, if it goes wrong there seems every chance it won't be affordable to sort out.
So that leaves leases so it just gets handed back and someone else pays for any problems. But that seems pricey, as you'd expect if I farm out the risk to them. Is there any flexibility if my circumstances change? Why do they quote a monthly price and randomly include a lump sum? Just to make comparison harder, or is there some other advantage/disadvantage?
I've noticed "used lease" which would totally tick all my boxes *if* "they" take on all the maintainance and repair. Is that what happens?
A crew cab van would work well as a family car (I've had a crew cab Vivaro in the past.) I could go smaller, and have a tow bar and trailer.
I don't GAF about having a shiney car but it does have to work.
What's best?
Buying new = If things to wrong you have a warranty to fall back on (although... JLR). You do take a hit on depreciation BUT there are some clearance/end-of-line deals to be had if you chase the deal, not the brand. Jaguar has 1/2 price IPACE at the moment and MG has £21K EV SUV for sale.After a lifetime of bangernomics, and then 5 years of having new cars provided for me I'm facing a changed world.
Bangernomics is gone, as far as I can tell.
The price and complexity of used cars means I'm very reluctant to buy at 3-5 years old, because it's still a massive punt if it turns out to be a lemon. If I go down this route, private or trade? Trade seems to have hoovered up most of the used cars. Where are private sellers selling?
Buying new means buying a massively complex car loaded with electronics and filters, if it goes wrong there seems every chance it won't be affordable to sort out.
So that leaves leases so it just gets handed back and someone else pays for any problems. But that seems pricey, as you'd expect if I farm out the risk to them. Is there any flexibility if my circumstances change? Why do they quote a monthly price and randomly include a lump sum? Just to make comparison harder, or is there some other advantage/disadvantage?
I've noticed "used lease" which would totally tick all my boxes *if* "they" take on all the maintainance and repair. Is that what happens?
A crew cab van would work well as a family car (I've had a crew cab Vivaro in the past.) I could go smaller, and have a tow bar and trailer.
I don't GAF about having a shiney car but it does have to work.
What's best?
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Friday 24th January 08:11
Buy second hand = Remember you can buy approved models that are cheaper and still under warranty. MG and Kia have transferrable warranties so if you buy a 2 year old model from the latter, you still have 5 years left (I think). Ditto for Tesla etc.
Buy lease = Low OPEX but you don't own the car and you're liable to issues when handing it over. You have a NEW car and warranty as well. Not too sure what the lump sum you're referring to. For PCP/HP, there's an optional sum you can pay to own the car. For PCH, the lump sum is probably the deposit paid at the beginning (think initial cost for smartphone contracts).
I went for lease for my 2 cars.
BikeBikeBIke said:
I will need a new family car in 2 months time.
After a lifetime of bangernomics, and then 5 years of having new cars provided for me I'm facing a changed world.
Bangernomics is gone, as far as I can tell.
Not so sure it's gone, but what was your previous bangernomics history as that may help?After a lifetime of bangernomics, and then 5 years of having new cars provided for me I'm facing a changed world.
Bangernomics is gone, as far as I can tell.
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Friday 24th January 08:11
"Stuff like the BMW E60 520i that has no particular desirability but is fundamentally a solid car." this is a valid comment I think, if you research models you can identify common issues and try and assess if they are worth the risk for you.
I try and do the above but stretch to a model with power or style (to me!) that I think is cheap but these have higher risk of costs. I do occasionally look at newer but with my ethos the gulf in price is massive compared to a more run of the mill car.
I think a auto IS250, late 2008-2010 with decent mileage would serve anyone well and the SE-L has loads of comfort including cooled/ventilated seats. I'm not sure they have any common issues, just with age the original exhaust can become holed.
Scootersp said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
I will need a new family car in 2 months time.
After a lifetime of bangernomics, and then 5 years of having new cars provided for me I'm facing a changed world.
Bangernomics is gone, as far as I can tell.
Not so sure it's gone, but what was your previous bangernomics history as that may help?After a lifetime of bangernomics, and then 5 years of having new cars provided for me I'm facing a changed world.
Bangernomics is gone, as far as I can tell.
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Friday 24th January 08:11
We have 2 cars - a 74 reg Honda e:Ny1 on a 2 year PCP and a 15 reg Discovery Sport 2.2 (not ingeniuboom!).
I've never had a car on a PCP and we only took it out as we recently moved house and the previous house owners had invested in solar panels, battery storage and a car charger, which they'd left, we also got it on one of the very cheap PCP deals, when Honda were heavily discounting to meet their EV targets.
Although its 'only' £180 per month, I hate the fact that I am tied into the contract for 2 years and I can swap cars when I want to without a large penalty.
I've always been buying cars in the £1k-£3k bracket, which is something I've always enjoyed, even on occasions when I've had to throw some money at one or two of them.
Our other car is a Discovery Sport, although only bought last year to replace an XC60, bought outright from a Kia dealer - surprised they were retailing a 9 year old car at the time but its condition and FSH were great. I really struggled to find any privately that I wanted to buy, with most people wanting top money and the same prices as dealers, the one exception was a car 50 miles away, but needed £1.5k-£2k spending on it - think big service, cambelt, 4 x new tyres etc and alloys refurbing, only problem was the owner didn't want to sell it until se had found a car herself to replace it...
There are cars out there for sale privately but private sellers are wanting post-Covid prices.
I would always still own outright (or buy with a loan) as I can then determine when I want to sell / change the car.
I've never had a car on a PCP and we only took it out as we recently moved house and the previous house owners had invested in solar panels, battery storage and a car charger, which they'd left, we also got it on one of the very cheap PCP deals, when Honda were heavily discounting to meet their EV targets.
Although its 'only' £180 per month, I hate the fact that I am tied into the contract for 2 years and I can swap cars when I want to without a large penalty.
I've always been buying cars in the £1k-£3k bracket, which is something I've always enjoyed, even on occasions when I've had to throw some money at one or two of them.
Our other car is a Discovery Sport, although only bought last year to replace an XC60, bought outright from a Kia dealer - surprised they were retailing a 9 year old car at the time but its condition and FSH were great. I really struggled to find any privately that I wanted to buy, with most people wanting top money and the same prices as dealers, the one exception was a car 50 miles away, but needed £1.5k-£2k spending on it - think big service, cambelt, 4 x new tyres etc and alloys refurbing, only problem was the owner didn't want to sell it until se had found a car herself to replace it...
There are cars out there for sale privately but private sellers are wanting post-Covid prices.
I would always still own outright (or buy with a loan) as I can then determine when I want to sell / change the car.
I wish I was in need of a daily.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/17913303
This would be amazing.
Great engine.
Great colour.
Comfy spec.
Manual.
From a good dealer.
80% DIY-able.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/17913303
This would be amazing.
Great engine.
Great colour.
Comfy spec.
Manual.
From a good dealer.
80% DIY-able.
BikeBikeBIke said:
The price and complexity of used cars means I'm very reluctant to buy at 3-5 years old, because it's still a massive punt if it turns out to be a lemon. If I go down this route, private or trade? Trade seems to have hoovered up most of the used cars. Where are private sellers selling?
There's always the option to take out an extended warranty on 3-5 year old cars if not already covered. For example with my 340i I've had from new, the BMW approved extended warranty is £300 a year, up until 10 years old or 100,000 miles. Worry free motoring for a decade.Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Friday 24th January 08:11
Likewise Lexus and Toyota have a 10 year warranty as long as the car's serviced with them, Kia 7 years from new etc.
Pistonheadsdicoverer said:
Buying new = If things to wrong you have a warranty to fall back on (although... JLR). You do take a hit on depreciation BUT there are some clearance/end-of-line deals to be had if you chase the deal, not the brand. Jaguar has 1/2 price IPACE at the moment and MG has £21K EV SUV for sale.
Please can you share where these 1/2 price Jags are?mcflurry said:
Please can you share where these 1/2 price Jags are?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501218...'74 plate, 15 miles on the clock, £38,995 (against 70-odd list)
GS250 is a very good option:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202411055...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311234...
You can change the screen on these so you can have all the modern connectivity.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202411055...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311234...
You can change the screen on these so you can have all the modern connectivity.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Saturday 25th January 08:41
Two years ago I left as job and was offered an ex-fleet Mondeo, 2016 model, 1.5 TDCi. Econetic no less. In white.
I am very impressed at the ability to handle all family tasks easily, and at minimal expenditure.
It rides nicely, costs nothing to run. £0 VED. I don't think it has even depreciated much.
That would be my recommendation.
I am very impressed at the ability to handle all family tasks easily, and at minimal expenditure.
It rides nicely, costs nothing to run. £0 VED. I don't think it has even depreciated much.
That would be my recommendation.
I’ve leased me last 5 cars, mostly because £xxx a month new and warrantied appealed. The current one is going back in March.
Looking at replacement PCH would cost me around 9k for 2yrs.
I’m coming round to thinking there’s better value in just buying a car around 5yrs old or so for 15-20k and running it for 4yrs.
Looking at replacement PCH would cost me around 9k for 2yrs.
I’m coming round to thinking there’s better value in just buying a car around 5yrs old or so for 15-20k and running it for 4yrs.
There are half price pre reg Nissan Leafs on autotrader as well. I guess similar story to the Jag iPace. Run out model, using up all the parts before closing production.
@OP, you have to do a spreadsheet and calculate the cost of ownership for some likely vehicles and methods of finance.
Once you have done some sums, and defined your use case and requirements, at any given time, there will be a few stand out options. It IS confusing if you don’t delve into specifics. At the moment, it sounds like you wouldn’t mind driving anything, financed in anyway.
Are you looking at the cheap leases thread? Wealth of advice and sometimes even some great deals in there. Honda Eny1 for £173 down and £173 a month for instance. I found my 3008 deal in there as well, £500 down, £250 a month. Was a total no brainer at the time, near the tail of covid. It was the cheapest option by far that fitted my criteria for a warrantied, family SUV that will provide fuss free, no maintenance motoring.
@OP, you have to do a spreadsheet and calculate the cost of ownership for some likely vehicles and methods of finance.
Once you have done some sums, and defined your use case and requirements, at any given time, there will be a few stand out options. It IS confusing if you don’t delve into specifics. At the moment, it sounds like you wouldn’t mind driving anything, financed in anyway.
Are you looking at the cheap leases thread? Wealth of advice and sometimes even some great deals in there. Honda Eny1 for £173 down and £173 a month for instance. I found my 3008 deal in there as well, £500 down, £250 a month. Was a total no brainer at the time, near the tail of covid. It was the cheapest option by far that fitted my criteria for a warrantied, family SUV that will provide fuss free, no maintenance motoring.
Edited by wyson on Saturday 25th January 06:49
wyson said:
@OP, you have to do a spreadsheet and calculate the cost of ownership for some likely vehicles and methods of finance.
As my Account (wife) says;The numbers never lie. If the numbers don’t tell you what you wanted to hear, and you do something else because you want to, then that’s a different thing.
10-20 year old cars can offer great value if you choose well. By that age, any serious flaws will be well documented and can be avoided.
I run several older cars but I maintain them well. Running a shed seems to be associated on this forum with not doing any work to a car until absolutely necessary. I'm more proactive so should probably change my name. There's more cost on repairs but depreciation is very low.
I run several older cars but I maintain them well. Running a shed seems to be associated on this forum with not doing any work to a car until absolutely necessary. I'm more proactive so should probably change my name. There's more cost on repairs but depreciation is very low.
Many thanks thanks all.
I'm still bewildered by the options, but you guys have helped me a lot.
Looks like leasing you're better off keeping an open mind and accepting a car that doesn't look *exactly* what you need in exchange for cheapness. I could swallow that for this car.
Also sounds like bangernomics isn't as dead as I think it is.
I think I'll have a look at some 4-5yo cars on forecourts and see if anything inspires, too.
I guess the outcome of this thread is that there is no clear winner between the various ways you can get a car.
Thanks to everyone who's commented. Not a single duff post in there.
I'm still bewildered by the options, but you guys have helped me a lot.
Looks like leasing you're better off keeping an open mind and accepting a car that doesn't look *exactly* what you need in exchange for cheapness. I could swallow that for this car.
Also sounds like bangernomics isn't as dead as I think it is.
I think I'll have a look at some 4-5yo cars on forecourts and see if anything inspires, too.
I guess the outcome of this thread is that there is no clear winner between the various ways you can get a car.
Thanks to everyone who's commented. Not a single duff post in there.
wyson said:
There are half price pre reg Nissan Leafs on autotrader as well. I guess similar story to the Jag iPace. Run out model, using up all the parts before closing production.
@OP, you have to do a spreadsheet and calculate the cost of ownership for some likely vehicles and methods of finance.
Once you have done some sums, and defined your use case and requirements, at any given time, there will be a few stand out options. It IS confusing if you don’t delve into specifics. At the moment, it sounds like you wouldn’t mind driving anything, financed in anyway.
Are you looking at the cheap leases thread? Wealth of advice and sometimes even some great deals in there. Honda Eny1 for £173 down and £173 a month for instance. I found my 3008 deal in there as well, £500 down, £250 a month. Was a total no brainer at the time, near the tail of covid. It was the cheapest option by far that fitted my criteria for a warrantied, family SUV that will provide fuss free, no maintenance motoring.
Thanks, useful post. I'm taking heed of spreadsheets and specifics.... @OP, you have to do a spreadsheet and calculate the cost of ownership for some likely vehicles and methods of finance.
Once you have done some sums, and defined your use case and requirements, at any given time, there will be a few stand out options. It IS confusing if you don’t delve into specifics. At the moment, it sounds like you wouldn’t mind driving anything, financed in anyway.
Are you looking at the cheap leases thread? Wealth of advice and sometimes even some great deals in there. Honda Eny1 for £173 down and £173 a month for instance. I found my 3008 deal in there as well, £500 down, £250 a month. Was a total no brainer at the time, near the tail of covid. It was the cheapest option by far that fitted my criteria for a warrantied, family SUV that will provide fuss free, no maintenance motoring.
Edited by wyson on Saturday 25th January 06:49
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