BMW 3/4 series vs Hot Hatch
Discussion
My trusty but now pretty ancient Mk5 GTI is on its last legs (rust will kill it sooner rather than later and there is a long list of jobs to be done).
So, researching a replacement with a budget of approx 13-15k.
Coming from 3 hot hatches on the bounce, I’m obviously open to another but part of me fancies trying a rwd BMW which opens up estates and fastbacks which I also like.
Criteria are:
Not too ancient - maybe 8 years old max as I keep cars a long time and it needs to be reliable for family duty
Balance of fun vs reliability (e.g don’t want a Honda jazz but equally don’t fancy something with high borkage risk just so I can have fun sometimes on b roads)
Reasonable mileage - say sub 70000 as I will be keeping for long term.
Family friendly so C segment and above
Petrol (will do 7-10k miles a year for at least the next 5 years)
Shortlist so far:
BMW f31 estate - 320i or 328i might be reachable think 6 cylinders out of budget with my age and mileage constraints
BMW f32 gran coupe - better value than 3 series tourings?
VW Golf mk7 GTI (poor value compared to others?)
Skoda Octavia VRs
Ford Focus ST mk3 (reliability issues?)
Peugeot 308 GTI (good apart from brakes?)
Not keen on Seat Cupras I don’t think.
Anyone owned or driven a combination of the above to compare them as a fun family car? Any other options worth considering?
Thanks
Tom
So, researching a replacement with a budget of approx 13-15k.
Coming from 3 hot hatches on the bounce, I’m obviously open to another but part of me fancies trying a rwd BMW which opens up estates and fastbacks which I also like.
Criteria are:
Not too ancient - maybe 8 years old max as I keep cars a long time and it needs to be reliable for family duty
Balance of fun vs reliability (e.g don’t want a Honda jazz but equally don’t fancy something with high borkage risk just so I can have fun sometimes on b roads)
Reasonable mileage - say sub 70000 as I will be keeping for long term.
Family friendly so C segment and above
Petrol (will do 7-10k miles a year for at least the next 5 years)
Shortlist so far:
BMW f31 estate - 320i or 328i might be reachable think 6 cylinders out of budget with my age and mileage constraints
BMW f32 gran coupe - better value than 3 series tourings?
VW Golf mk7 GTI (poor value compared to others?)
Skoda Octavia VRs
Ford Focus ST mk3 (reliability issues?)
Peugeot 308 GTI (good apart from brakes?)
Not keen on Seat Cupras I don’t think.
Anyone owned or driven a combination of the above to compare them as a fun family car? Any other options worth considering?
Thanks
Tom
I was pondering this 6 month ago. In the end I went for a 308 gti, as the 1 series BMWs rear leg room was awful (my eldest son is tall), and the golf type Rs, cupra Leon's etc all had questionable mods and stage 2 maps.
The brakes are expensive, mine had recent discs and a caliper rebuild which was about £2k. I also saw a couple with very worn discs that had obviously been traded in rather than have them replaced.
While the engines are better than the usual 1.6 Prince, the timing chains can get noisy and ithey are £800 to replace.
However, in 6 months is been economical to drive, fun and comfortable. I need to upgrade the stero to android auto, which will be £500 and I suspect it'll need a couple of tyres soon.
The brakes are expensive, mine had recent discs and a caliper rebuild which was about £2k. I also saw a couple with very worn discs that had obviously been traded in rather than have them replaced.
While the engines are better than the usual 1.6 Prince, the timing chains can get noisy and ithey are £800 to replace.
However, in 6 months is been economical to drive, fun and comfortable. I need to upgrade the stero to android auto, which will be £500 and I suspect it'll need a couple of tyres soon.
Seems a shame to rule out the Cupra, it's essentially a fully loaded Golf GTI PP with the Golf R engine.
A good mate of mine has a F31 420i, really nice car with good handling for its weight but it does feel a little slow. A little unfair perhaps as my car has over 100bhp more and is lighter, but compared to a modern hot hatch they lack pace.
Skoda is a good shout, the 245bhp version should be achievable at the top end of your budget.
Is the Megane 265/275 an option? Or the Astra GTC VXR? not sure if 3 door rules them out...
I did really like the GTI PP I looked at and think they would make a really good daily,but the performance of the Cupra won me over.
A good mate of mine has a F31 420i, really nice car with good handling for its weight but it does feel a little slow. A little unfair perhaps as my car has over 100bhp more and is lighter, but compared to a modern hot hatch they lack pace.
Skoda is a good shout, the 245bhp version should be achievable at the top end of your budget.
Is the Megane 265/275 an option? Or the Astra GTC VXR? not sure if 3 door rules them out...
I did really like the GTI PP I looked at and think they would make a really good daily,but the performance of the Cupra won me over.
Ouch re brakes on the 308 GTI - don’t think I could stomach or afford that. Are there no alternatives options?
Yes unfortunately 3 door is out - my previous hot hatch was an Fn2 and as much as I liked it it wasn’t great once we got kids.
Re Cupras I could have a look round one I suppose, just prefer the other VAG options looks wise - particularly dislike the Bronze on many of them.
Yes unfortunately 3 door is out - my previous hot hatch was an Fn2 and as much as I liked it it wasn’t great once we got kids.
Re Cupras I could have a look round one I suppose, just prefer the other VAG options looks wise - particularly dislike the Bronze on many of them.
Tmrtom said:
Ouch re brakes on the 308 GTI - don’t think I could stomach or afford that. Are there no alternatives options?
Yes unfortunately 3 door is out - my previous hot hatch was an Fn2 and as much as I liked it it wasn’t great once we got kids.
Re Cupras I could have a look round one I suppose, just prefer the other VAG options looks wise - particularly dislike the Bronze on many of them.
If you can get by the bronze then the Cupra would be my choice as well. Yes unfortunately 3 door is out - my previous hot hatch was an Fn2 and as much as I liked it it wasn’t great once we got kids.
Re Cupras I could have a look round one I suppose, just prefer the other VAG options looks wise - particularly dislike the Bronze on many of them.
Tmrtom said:
Re Cupras I could have a look round one I suppose, just prefer the other VAG options looks wise - particularly dislike the Bronze on many of them.
The bronze should only be on the Seat badge on the front, rear and steering wheel. This also only applies to the Cupra 290 made in 2019-2020. Or the rare Cupra R. The Cupra 300 has silver badges, if your seeing bronze anywhere else in your budget then the owner has done that. Tmrtom said:
My trusty but now pretty ancient Mk5 GTI is on its last legs (rust will kill it sooner rather than later and there is a long list of jobs to be done).
So, researching a replacement with a budget of approx 13-15k.
Coming from 3 hot hatches on the bounce, I’m obviously open to another but part of me fancies trying a rwd BMW which opens up estates and fastbacks which I also like.
Criteria are:
Not too ancient - maybe 8 years old max as I keep cars a long time and it needs to be reliable for family duty
Balance of fun vs reliability (e.g don’t want a Honda jazz but equally don’t fancy something with high borkage risk just so I can have fun sometimes on b roads)
Reasonable mileage - say sub 70000 as I will be keeping for long term.
Family friendly so C segment and above
Petrol (will do 7-10k miles a year for at least the next 5 years)
Shortlist so far:
BMW f31 estate - 320i or 328i might be reachable think 6 cylinders out of budget with my age and mileage constraints
BMW f32 gran coupe - better value than 3 series tourings?
VW Golf mk7 GTI (poor value compared to others?)
Skoda Octavia VRs
Ford Focus ST mk3 (reliability issues?)
Peugeot 308 GTI (good apart from brakes?)
Not keen on Seat Cupras I don’t think.
Anyone owned or driven a combination of the above to compare them as a fun family car? Any other options worth considering?
Thanks
Tom
There's nothing wrong with the 308 GTI's brakes they're just a bit expensive when they need replacing.So, researching a replacement with a budget of approx 13-15k.
Coming from 3 hot hatches on the bounce, I’m obviously open to another but part of me fancies trying a rwd BMW which opens up estates and fastbacks which I also like.
Criteria are:
Not too ancient - maybe 8 years old max as I keep cars a long time and it needs to be reliable for family duty
Balance of fun vs reliability (e.g don’t want a Honda jazz but equally don’t fancy something with high borkage risk just so I can have fun sometimes on b roads)
Reasonable mileage - say sub 70000 as I will be keeping for long term.
Family friendly so C segment and above
Petrol (will do 7-10k miles a year for at least the next 5 years)
Shortlist so far:
BMW f31 estate - 320i or 328i might be reachable think 6 cylinders out of budget with my age and mileage constraints
BMW f32 gran coupe - better value than 3 series tourings?
VW Golf mk7 GTI (poor value compared to others?)
Skoda Octavia VRs
Ford Focus ST mk3 (reliability issues?)
Peugeot 308 GTI (good apart from brakes?)
Not keen on Seat Cupras I don’t think.
Anyone owned or driven a combination of the above to compare them as a fun family car? Any other options worth considering?
Thanks
Tom
There are two cars that I think you should add to your list.
Giulia Veloce:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501087...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202411055...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202412177...
Jaguar XE S:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501248...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501228...
Previously owned a Mk3 Focus ST which I had all the Mountune goodies added to and I’m a serial BMW owner.
My Focus was very reliable in the time I had it but it was pretty boring compared to the Ml2 Focus ST I owned previously and I think I was trying to get that experience back.
I would definately recommend going the BMW route but get one with a 6 cylinder engine. The 140 and 240 are brilliant cars but in my experience too small to be family cars.
My Focus was very reliable in the time I had it but it was pretty boring compared to the Ml2 Focus ST I owned previously and I think I was trying to get that experience back.
I would definately recommend going the BMW route but get one with a 6 cylinder engine. The 140 and 240 are brilliant cars but in my experience too small to be family cars.
Thanks everyone. If I do decide to stick with hot hatches I’ll look at the Cupra based on the positive feedback above.
@Pica - that was kind of the point of the thread - to hear any real world feedback from people who have owned both types of car and could compare them. I know I could just test drive them all but my time is limited and I don’t like wasting garages time until I have some clarity first.
@zx10 - funny you say that, I had seen and liked those when using various filters on auto trader and on here, but discounted them as they don’t do estate variants. A saloon won’t work for us I don’t think - we have a dog and I do a lot of mountain biking.
@james - thanks, but unfortunately my budget and age requirements exclude 6 cylinder models so I’d be looking at the 2 litre 4 cylinder ones.
Think I am leaning more towards an Octavia VRs estate or a 3 series touring as an estate appeals more. I could also look at the Cupra estate then based on the above.
@Pica - that was kind of the point of the thread - to hear any real world feedback from people who have owned both types of car and could compare them. I know I could just test drive them all but my time is limited and I don’t like wasting garages time until I have some clarity first.
@zx10 - funny you say that, I had seen and liked those when using various filters on auto trader and on here, but discounted them as they don’t do estate variants. A saloon won’t work for us I don’t think - we have a dog and I do a lot of mountain biking.
@james - thanks, but unfortunately my budget and age requirements exclude 6 cylinder models so I’d be looking at the 2 litre 4 cylinder ones.
Think I am leaning more towards an Octavia VRs estate or a 3 series touring as an estate appeals more. I could also look at the Cupra estate then based on the above.
Octavia VRS estate would be great and probably better value, you will struggle to get into a cooking Cupra estate with your budget but they are nice with the 4 drive.
The Cupra hatch does look good but i personally cant get past the front wheel drive and close to 300 bhp, some say its fun to drive though.
The Cupra hatch does look good but i personally cant get past the front wheel drive and close to 300 bhp, some say its fun to drive though.
Surprised a CTR isn’t on your radar.
Also those D segment BMW’s you listed aren’t fun to drive unless you are really hauling. Day to day, driving around town, you’d feel the suspension is a bit more jiggly, especially M sport but not much else. They are set up to be balanced more than anything. So something like a Ford Fiesta won’t be as stable as a 3 series on the motorway, but you’d feel something, even driving around town.
Deffo do some test drives.
I’ve noticed over the years, driving dozens of different types of cars, small and light are your friends when it comes to fun. I’d keep it as small as possible whilst meeting your practicality criteria.
Also those D segment BMW’s you listed aren’t fun to drive unless you are really hauling. Day to day, driving around town, you’d feel the suspension is a bit more jiggly, especially M sport but not much else. They are set up to be balanced more than anything. So something like a Ford Fiesta won’t be as stable as a 3 series on the motorway, but you’d feel something, even driving around town.
Deffo do some test drives.
I’ve noticed over the years, driving dozens of different types of cars, small and light are your friends when it comes to fun. I’d keep it as small as possible whilst meeting your practicality criteria.
Edited by wyson on Sunday 26th January 10:29
Sounds like you really want an estate.
To get a 3 series estate which fits your criteria it will be a 320i. If you plan to keep it long term I suppose you could always consider a remap if you find it a bit short on power.
I really like a good hot hatch but did run an e92 325i a few years ago just for a change. It's a completely different type of car entirely. Much more cruiser with strong build and refinement. I changed it for a Fiesta ST and never looked back.
You can easily get the mk3 Focus ST in budget and it fits your age and mileage requirements. I'm not sure what the reliability issues are that you mention but I can say that my Fiesta was a lot cheaper to run and maintain than the 3 series was.
To get a 3 series estate which fits your criteria it will be a 320i. If you plan to keep it long term I suppose you could always consider a remap if you find it a bit short on power.
I really like a good hot hatch but did run an e92 325i a few years ago just for a change. It's a completely different type of car entirely. Much more cruiser with strong build and refinement. I changed it for a Fiesta ST and never looked back.
You can easily get the mk3 Focus ST in budget and it fits your age and mileage requirements. I'm not sure what the reliability issues are that you mention but I can say that my Fiesta was a lot cheaper to run and maintain than the 3 series was.
Tmrtom said:
Thanks everyone. If I do decide to stick with hot hatches I’ll look at the Cupra based on the positive feedback above.
@Pica - that was kind of the point of the thread - to hear any real world feedback from people who have owned both types of car and could compare them. I know I could just test drive them all but my time is limited and I don’t like wasting garages time until I have some clarity first.
@zx10 - funny you say that, I had seen and liked those when using various filters on auto trader and on here, but discounted them as they don’t do estate variants. A saloon won’t work for us I don’t think - we have a dog and I do a lot of mountain biking.
@james - thanks, but unfortunately my budget and age requirements exclude 6 cylinder models so I’d be looking at the 2 litre 4 cylinder ones.
Think I am leaning more towards an Octavia VRs estate or a 3 series touring as an estate appeals more. I could also look at the Cupra estate then based on the above.
If you want an estate or hatch & you're nor a badge snob then the 2.0t Insignia is a very good alternative to the Octavia/Superb:@Pica - that was kind of the point of the thread - to hear any real world feedback from people who have owned both types of car and could compare them. I know I could just test drive them all but my time is limited and I don’t like wasting garages time until I have some clarity first.
@zx10 - funny you say that, I had seen and liked those when using various filters on auto trader and on here, but discounted them as they don’t do estate variants. A saloon won’t work for us I don’t think - we have a dog and I do a lot of mountain biking.
@james - thanks, but unfortunately my budget and age requirements exclude 6 cylinder models so I’d be looking at the 2 litre 4 cylinder ones.
Think I am leaning more towards an Octavia VRs estate or a 3 series touring as an estate appeals more. I could also look at the Cupra estate then based on the above.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501148...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501168...
Passat R Line:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501037...
Superb Sportline:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501218...
VRS 230:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403247...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501127...
Leftfield
CAT N V60 Inscription Pro, good car & if you're planning on keeping it for years this makes it a good buy, obviously you have to do your checks:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406190...
Thanks all. Re the CTR I’m not opposed at all (previous car was an Fn2) but can’t see any in my budget / mileage and age requirements. I’m not a fan of Vauxhalls but will look more closely at the Focus St estate based on the above.
Think I’ll test the 3 series and Octavia VRs and at least one more of the above and go from there.
Cheers
Tom
Think I’ll test the 3 series and Octavia VRs and at least one more of the above and go from there.
Cheers
Tom
Here's a couple of Focus ST3 estates that fit the bill.
8 years old, under 70k miles and £13-15k budget.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024120269...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025011680...
The private sale one looks good and is listed as 1 owner.
Out of the hot hatches probably the 308 Gti for me.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025012383...
They look good value. If you're keeping it then yes you'll probably need to spend money on those brakes at some point. But it should only be once and the price is offset by a lower initial purchase price for the car.
8 years old, under 70k miles and £13-15k budget.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024120269...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025011680...
The private sale one looks good and is listed as 1 owner.
Out of the hot hatches probably the 308 Gti for me.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2025012383...
They look good value. If you're keeping it then yes you'll probably need to spend money on those brakes at some point. But it should only be once and the price is offset by a lower initial purchase price for the car.
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