Driving an EU registered vehicle in the UK on a UK License
Discussion
Hello Hive-Mind.
I've been doing a bit of reading on the whole CyberTruck topic, and everyone seems to point to this page;
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
To say that driving an EU registered vehicle in the UK on a UK License is not allowed.
Which is great, it's a UK government website so we should be able to trust it, right? But I'm a pedantic kind of lass, and I'd like to know what the actual law behind this is!
Is this from a driving license perspective, or from an import perspective (taxation?).
Does anyone know?
I've been doing a bit of reading on the whole CyberTruck topic, and everyone seems to point to this page;
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
To say that driving an EU registered vehicle in the UK on a UK License is not allowed.
Which is great, it's a UK government website so we should be able to trust it, right? But I'm a pedantic kind of lass, and I'd like to know what the actual law behind this is!
Is this from a driving license perspective, or from an import perspective (taxation?).
Does anyone know?
IANAL but if it weren't forbidden, you'd get people registering cars abroad to bypass the VED and MOT requirements in the UK, and they'd also be harder to trace since there'd be no quick way to check who the registered owner is.
Btw one thing I have wondered about these rules... My mum lives abroad (Luxembourg) and often drives her car to the UK. Sometimes I drive her car when she's here. I have a UK licence – is that technically not allowed?
Btw one thing I have wondered about these rules... My mum lives abroad (Luxembourg) and often drives her car to the UK. Sometimes I drive her car when she's here. I have a UK licence – is that technically not allowed?
surveyor said:
I asked the question as I used to hire cars in Dublin and often had to drive into Northern Ireland.
Never got to an answer, but ultimately just got on with it...
I would have thought the rules about cars from the Republic of Ireland are very different, just as pretty much every other rule is due to the close connection and history between the UK and Eire. Never got to an answer, but ultimately just got on with it...
Cyberprog said:
Hello Hive-Mind.
I've been doing a bit of reading on the whole CyberTruck topic, and everyone seems to point to this page;
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
To say that driving an EU registered vehicle in the UK on a UK License is not allowed.
Which is great, it's a UK government website so we should be able to trust it, right? But I'm a pedantic kind of lass, and I'd like to know what the actual law behind this is!
Is this from a driving license perspective, or from an import perspective (taxation?).
Does anyone know?
Somewhere in the RTA most likely. I've been doing a bit of reading on the whole CyberTruck topic, and everyone seems to point to this page;
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
To say that driving an EU registered vehicle in the UK on a UK License is not allowed.
Which is great, it's a UK government website so we should be able to trust it, right? But I'm a pedantic kind of lass, and I'd like to know what the actual law behind this is!
Is this from a driving license perspective, or from an import perspective (taxation?).
Does anyone know?
Even if it is not forbidden per official laws, driving a foreign registered car on a UK license in the UK could / should see you fall foul of taxation laws. Here in Switzerland, if you drive a non-Swiss registered car on a swiss license then it is assumed you are circumventing any import taxes that would otherwise be due in the case of properly importing the vehicle (we imported a vehicle from Slovakia so know first hand about the various taxes and charges due).
If we hire a car from say France or Germany and drive into Switzerland, we need to stop at the border and get a particular form completed to demonstrate its temporary.
There was a thread on here a couple of weeks ago about a police operation that targeted foreign registered cars being driven long-term by UK residents (maybe in the Midlands?).
If we hire a car from say France or Germany and drive into Switzerland, we need to stop at the border and get a particular form completed to demonstrate its temporary.
There was a thread on here a couple of weeks ago about a police operation that targeted foreign registered cars being driven long-term by UK residents (maybe in the Midlands?).
Edited by Pete102 on Tuesday 28th January 12:03
MajorMantra said:
IANAL but if it weren't forbidden, you'd get people registering cars abroad to bypass the VED and MOT requirements in the UK, and they'd also be harder to trace since there'd be no quick way to check who the registered owner is.
Btw one thing I have wondered about these rules... My mum lives abroad (Luxembourg) and often drives her car to the UK. Sometimes I drive her car when she's here. I have a UK licence – is that technically not allowed?
The EU has restrictions that say a car must be registered to the owner's main address, which obviously used to apply in the UK, has it changed? That would close the loophole of registering a car in a more favourable tax regime. It also makes it illegal to register a car to a holiday home, which seems to be a perfectly reasonable thing to want to do, if you regularly fly to your second home. A case of unintended consequences I think. Btw one thing I have wondered about these rules... My mum lives abroad (Luxembourg) and often drives her car to the UK. Sometimes I drive her car when she's here. I have a UK licence – is that technically not allowed?
The linked webpage makes no mention of driving licence restrictions. Perhaps they are elsewhere. The linked page also says a car must be registered and taxed in its home country, which is a rubbish piece of wording. I'm pretty sure the car must comply with all legal requirements in its home country to be used in the UK.
MajorMantra - loads of people drive an EU registered car in the UK on a UK driving licence. For one thing the French officially allowed ex-UK residents covered by the Withdrawal Agreement to keep using their UK Licences as long as they were valid, to avoid being inundated with exchange requests post Brexit.
andyalan10 said:
The linked webpage makes no mention of driving licence restrictions. Perhaps they are elsewhere. The linked page also says a car must be registered and taxed in its home country, which is a rubbish piece of wording. I'm pretty sure the car must comply with all legal requirements in its home country to be used in the UK.
It's not a driving licence issue, it's a Customs & Excise (HMRC) issue.Sheepshanks said:
It's not a driving licence issue, it's a Customs & Excise (HMRC) issue.
OK I fully accept what you are saying, oh, no, hang on you are a complete stranger on the internet, not quoting any sources. And with a quick search on the interweb I can't find any official source either...Nothing to do with driving licences and everything to do with residence.
A UK resident cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle in the UK except as a cross border worker or whilst importing it permanently.
Until last year when I exchanged my UK licence for a Spanish one, I regularly drove my French and then Spanish registered vehicles whilst holding a UK licence quite legally in the UK as I was not a UK resident at the time.
All to do with importation and taxation, the same rules operate in FR and ES, bring a foreign reg car into the country as a resident here and you have one month to commence the immatriculation procedures to get it onto local plates.
Think it's actually detailed in the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic which the UK is a signatory to so it becomes part of UK law.
A UK resident cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle in the UK except as a cross border worker or whilst importing it permanently.
Until last year when I exchanged my UK licence for a Spanish one, I regularly drove my French and then Spanish registered vehicles whilst holding a UK licence quite legally in the UK as I was not a UK resident at the time.
All to do with importation and taxation, the same rules operate in FR and ES, bring a foreign reg car into the country as a resident here and you have one month to commence the immatriculation procedures to get it onto local plates.
Think it's actually detailed in the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic which the UK is a signatory to so it becomes part of UK law.
I have a rough knowledge of the law regarding boats, where an EU resident is not allowed to charter a temporarily imported non-EU vessel.
I think cars are slightly similar, it's your country of residence that matters, you can move to the UK with an EU driving licence and not change it for a UK one until it expires? Which is somewhat at odds with the requirement to notify change of address if you have a UK licence!
Googling quickly suggests you can temporarily import an EU car for up to 6 months. In must be taxed in the EU.
Pre-brexit, I worked with a lot of French people in the UK, they were supposed to either take their cars home for 6 months of the year or register them in the UK. So long as they had an address in the EU they could keep their French licenses forever.
AIUI, you can't buy(become the keeper of) an EU car from an EU resident who's temporarily imported it, without a lot of paperwork.
I think cars are slightly similar, it's your country of residence that matters, you can move to the UK with an EU driving licence and not change it for a UK one until it expires? Which is somewhat at odds with the requirement to notify change of address if you have a UK licence!
Googling quickly suggests you can temporarily import an EU car for up to 6 months. In must be taxed in the EU.
Pre-brexit, I worked with a lot of French people in the UK, they were supposed to either take their cars home for 6 months of the year or register them in the UK. So long as they had an address in the EU they could keep their French licenses forever.
AIUI, you can't buy(become the keeper of) an EU car from an EU resident who's temporarily imported it, without a lot of paperwork.
Sheepshanks said:
MajorMantra said:
Btw one thing I have wondered about these rules... My mum lives abroad (Luxembourg) and often drives her car to the UK. Sometimes I drive her car when she's here. I have a UK licence – is that technically not allowed?
Nothing technical about it - you're not allowed.The rules are to do with registration and tax/duties as pointed out by another poster.
andyalan10 said:
Sheepshanks said:
It's not a driving licence issue, it's a Customs & Excise (HMRC) issue.
OK I fully accept what you are saying, oh, no, hang on you are a complete stranger on the internet, not quoting any sources. And with a quick search on the interweb I can't find any official source either...The thing that does baffle me is the interplay between the police and HMRC - I don't know why the police would enforce Customs regulations.
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/illegal-foreign-car...
POLICE CONSTABLES James Burt and Jay Hussain have become something approaching legends in their own canteen lunchtime. Given new powers to fight crime on British roads, the pair have seized 75 cars in the past three months, making them one of the most feared road police partnerships in the country. Their record is 10 busts in one 12-hour shift.
Burt and Hussain are at the forefront of the latest fight against illegal drivers, known as Operation Jessica. Foreign cars that have been in Britain for more than six months in a year must be registered with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) and fitted with UK plates. If the owner is judged to be a resident, they must register their car within two weeks of importing it.
The operation uses information from HM Revenue & Customs. Records of vehicles entering and leaving the country at ports and the Channel Tunnel are used to identify those that have been in the country for more than six months. This generates a hotlist, which is sent to the forces taking part in the trial.
Police load the information into their systems, linking it to numberplate-recognition cameras in cars and at the roadside. The cameras can identify foreign plates and if one tallies with a number on the database, it triggers an alert, prompting police to pull it over.
Despite the technology, sometimes there is no substitute for old-fashioned intuition. In the BMW, Burt spots an oncoming Mercedes C-class fitted with Hungarian plates. No alert has sounded but he thinks something about it is not right. The BMW executes a U-turn, the blue lights go on and we are behind the silver saloon, gesturing for it to pull over.
“It’s not on the hotlist, but we want to check if the driver’s living here,” says Burt as the Mercedes pulls in. There is a rosary hanging from the rear-view mirror, but the driver is going to need more than prayers. “How long have you been in the country?” asks Burt. “Two years,” says the man. A few more questions and Burt discovers that he has a British bank card and he works in Britain as a driver, which means that he is a resident and puts beyond doubt that the car is being driven illegally.
“We use my country’s insurance because it’s cheap,” the driver tells the officers as he clears the car of valuables, along with its three other occupants, and walks off.
The driver will have to pay £360 to recover the car and will then have 56 days to register it. If he is caught after that period and has still not licensed it, the car can be seized and crushed. Drivers can also be ordered to pay the road tax that they have evaded by not registering their car, which could run to several hundreds of pounds.
Sheepshanks said:
It's all in the link someone posted earlier.
The thing that does baffle me is the interplay between the police and HMRC - I don't know why the police would enforce Customs regulations.
No, it really isn't. The thing that does baffle me is the interplay between the police and HMRC - I don't know why the police would enforce Customs regulations.
The link says the car must be registered if you become resident, or it stays for more than 6 months, neither of which is the case.
The link says :-
"You do not pay VAT or customs duty on a vehicle if you temporarily import it and all of the following apply:
it’s for your own private use
you’re not a UK resident
you do not sell, lend or hire it within the UK
you re-export it from the UK within 6 months - or longer if you’re eligible to use foreign number plates for longer"
In our example cases the only possible contravention would depend on the interpretation of "lend". If the foreign resident is with the car, but a UK driver is driving it, is it being lent? I'd argue it isn't. If the UK resident uses the car without the foreign owner present, maybe it is, but then that is a contravention of the correct import procedures, by the person who imported it. The UK resident isn't that person. For people to repeatedly make the statement that a UK resident cannot drive a non-UK registered car on UK roads I would want to see an official statement to that effect.
I'm not arguing because I support looking for loopholes to evade the responsibilities of ownership of a vehicle in a particular place. And anyway I think that is covered by the requirements for registration. I'm arguing because of all the perfectly reasonable situations where a fully licensed and insured driver should be able to drive a fully legal car:- My car is at the front of the drive, take it to fetch the takeaway". "You've never driven a Carlos Fandango Mark III, have a go in mine". "Mother's feeling unwell/tired, don't worry, I'll drive". and so on.
andyalan10 said:
No, it really isn't.
The link says the car must be registered if you become resident, or it stays for more than 6 months, neither of which is the case.
The link says :-
"You do not pay VAT or customs duty on a vehicle if you temporarily import it and all of the following apply:
it’s for your own private use
you’re not a UK resident
you do not sell, lend or hire it within the UK
you re-export it from the UK within 6 months - or longer if you’re eligible to use foreign number plates for longer"
In our example cases the only possible contravention would depend on the interpretation of "lend".
Why are you skipping past “it’s for your own private use”?The link says the car must be registered if you become resident, or it stays for more than 6 months, neither of which is the case.
The link says :-
"You do not pay VAT or customs duty on a vehicle if you temporarily import it and all of the following apply:
it’s for your own private use
you’re not a UK resident
you do not sell, lend or hire it within the UK
you re-export it from the UK within 6 months - or longer if you’re eligible to use foreign number plates for longer"
In our example cases the only possible contravention would depend on the interpretation of "lend".
andyalan10 said:
I'm not arguing because I support looking for loopholes to evade the responsibilities of ownership of a vehicle in a particular place. And anyway I think that is covered by the requirements for registration. I'm arguing because of all the perfectly reasonable situations where a fully licensed and insured driver should be able to drive a fully legal car:- My car is at the front of the drive, take it to fetch the takeaway". "You've never driven a Carlos Fandango Mark III, have a go in mine". "Mother's feeling unwell/tired, don't worry, I'll drive". and so on.
You’re still somehow missing the point, despite writing it the first part of your post. It’s not about the roadworthyness of the car, its insurance or the drivers licence. It’s a Customs & Excise issue.If’s most unlikely anything would come of popping to the takeaway in a foreign registered car - the risk of being impounded is probably so small as to be close to non-existent. But you’re not supposed to do it.
AIUI if you start with the Road Traffic Act requirement that any vehicle needs to be registered by the DVLA to be legally driven on British roads (+tax, insurance etc)
Foreign vehicles don’t meet that requirement, but exceptions exist for temporary visitors to the U.K., similarly British citizens driving EU vehicles for work, new vehicles prepared for sale etc
If you’re not an exception you’re effectively driving an unregistered car illegally
That’s my understanding anyway.
Foreign vehicles don’t meet that requirement, but exceptions exist for temporary visitors to the U.K., similarly British citizens driving EU vehicles for work, new vehicles prepared for sale etc
If you’re not an exception you’re effectively driving an unregistered car illegally
That’s my understanding anyway.
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