Renault P0313 driving me crazy. Help please!

[fantomas100pasta]

Hello!

Got a 2009 Renault Megane Expression petrol 1.6.

Essentially what I'm desperately wanting to do is bleed air from the fuel system. I'm not a mechanic and all threads I can find don't seem to match what I have in front of me.

SO...

Back story: Few weeks ago, starting getting some rough idle, power loss. All intermittent.

Plugged it in and received some error codes that showed faulty injectors. So, had a look, checked all injectors with a multimeter and yep, one was dead. All looks old, knackered, filthy. Replaced them all anyway.

Car was very happy. Had some white exhaust smoke. Otherwise, drove fine.

A week later, rough idle, loss of power, difficulty starting. Again - all intermittent. Sometimes absolutely fine. Sometimes awful. When it strikes; engine light, check ESP, check injectors.

Plugged in today and showed P0313. Changed spark plugs. Checked injectors. All is fine.

Fuel gauge was showing 2 bars, and suddenly it went to zero. This sounds to me like an air bubble, but I can't for the life of me find out how to bleed it as every google result and thread is different.

Can anyone assist with this?I would greatly appreciate any insight!

Thank you

[GreenV8S]

fantomas100pasta said:

Fuel gauge was showing 2 bars, and suddenly it went to zero. This sounds to me like an air bubble

It doesn't suggest that at all, to me.

It suggests you have an electrical fault - either in the sender, or the wiring to it.

ETA: the lean misfire might also indicate an electrical fault in the fuel pump control system, or a faulty pump. Since the sender is typically integral to the pump assembly, these faults might have a common cause such as a damaged loom.

[E-bmw]

fantomas100pasta said:

Car was very happy. Had some white exhaust smoke. Otherwise, drove fine.

White smoke from a petrol engined car is steam, and nothing to worry about unless you are losing water from the coolant, in which case it could be a cylinder head gasket issue.

fantomas100pasta said:

A week later, rough idle, loss of power, difficulty starting. Again - all intermittent. Sometimes absolutely fine. Sometimes awful. When it strikes; engine light, check ESP, check injectors.

Plugged in today and showed P0313. Changed spark plugs. Checked injectors. All is fine.

Why did you change spark plugs exactly? You say "checked injectors" checked what exactly?

fantomas100pasta said:

Fuel gauge was showing 2 bars, and suddenly it went to zero. This sounds to me like an air bubble, but I can't for the life of me find out how to bleed it as every google result and thread is different.

It doesn't sound like an air bubble at all, if it were an air bubble the pressure of the air would be the same as the pressure of the fuel and would continue to read 2 bar.

You say "fuel gauge was showing 2 bar" which fuel gauge? The one on the dash shows level not pressure?

If what you meant to say is that live data on your scan tool was showing 2 bar & then zero, then that would be (considering your running issue) leading you to an issue with fuel delivery up to where the pressure sensor is located.

This could be pump/filter/fuel line/fuel regulator/fuel level.

[stevieturbo]

air bubbles and bleeding injectors....wow.

Take the car to a competent mechanic.

[fantomas100pasta]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not a mechanic, or know a great deal. I'm pretty handy so try to do what I can.

I've gone back over things. Here's some more detail, and a better use of wording..

When issues first started, OBD scanner showed: P0303 Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected, P0314 Single Cylinder Misfire Detected, P0267 Cylinder 3 Injector A Circuit Low, P0203 Cylinder 3 Injector A Circuit, P0302 Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected, P0300 Random/Multiple Misfire Detected.

Looking at the trouble codes on obd-codes, these may mean: faulty spark plugs or wires, faulty coil, faulty oxygen sensors, faulty fuel injectors, burned exhaust valve, faulty catalytic converter, blocked EGR valve, faulty camshaft position sensor, defective computer, worn ignition system. Etc. The list goes on,

So, with the engine running I listened to each injector with a screwdriver. One wasn't clicking. I took the injectors out. They were gritty and filthy. I tested the connectors with a multimeter and the non-clicking one was dead. They all looked in poor shape so I replaced them.

Started the car and reset the error codes. All seemed fine. No issues at all until a week later.

Getting loss of power, difficulty starting, rumbling engine, engine light coming on, dash showed 'Check ESP' and 'Check Fuel Injection System'. Starting the car up after a few times the fuel gauge on the dashboard went from 2 bars to 0 bars which I thought was weird.

After some research, some people were saying that after fitting injectors you could get air in the fuel system, which led me to believe this was the case. Again, I have no idea about this kind of thing.

Plugged in the OBD scanner and it shows P0313 Misfire Detected with Low Fuel. Inputting this onto obd-codes it shows likely causes to be: low fuel level exposing fuel pump, failing fuel pump, fuel filter clogged, fuel pressure regulator failure, clogged or failed injectors, short or open circuit in fuel pump harness, poor electrical connectors.

Other possibilities: spark plugs, ignition wires, faulty regulator ring, carbon-fouled valves, mass air flow sensor, faulty distributor cap, faulty coil packs, lack of compression, vacuum leak. It also mentions: The “low fuel” referred to in this diagnostic trouble code doesn’t necessarily mean a low fuel condition in the vehicle, although that problem frequently occurs simultaneously. Instead, “low fuel” refers to a lean fuel condition, which occurs when too much air is in the air-fuel mixture. These conditions can cause the vehicle not to work appropriately, as there isn’t enough fuel to properly power the vehicle.

In my haste I may have typed an incorrect word.

I re-checked the injectors as I did previously, and they seem to be as they should. As spark plugs are easy and they're noted on the site, I had a look. They were old and black. Testing them with a multimeter; one was dodgy. So, I replaced them. Probably had nothing to do with anything but for £20, why not.

I've phoned about 12 mechanics and garages, all of which are busy for about a week, so trying to sort it out myself as it's needed for work. Turning to Google, a lot of people talk about air in the system as a possible cause if you've replaced injectors. So I wanted to know how to do that.

Apologies if I've worded things incorrectly. Just desperate to get the car sorted. Thanks

Edited by fantomas100pasta on Sunday 2nd February 11:14

[E-bmw]

So have you put any fuel in it yet?

[GreenV8S]

fantomas100pasta said:

I re-checked the injectors

How did you check them? What were the results?

fantomas100pasta said:

spark plugs ... Testing them with a multimeter; one was dodgy

How did you check them? What were the results?

You seem to have a lean misfire together with low fuel pressure and miscellaneous electronic errors. A problem with the vehicle power supply could explain a lot of this, or it could be a wiring fault. It shouldn't be that difficult to narrow it down by checking the electrical voltage at tha battery, fuel pump, injectors and by checking the fuel pressure. The only complexity would be if the problem is inrtermittent and can't be reproduced in the workshop. This should be straight forward for a competent mechanic to diagnose. With respect, based on what you've written so far, it probably isn't realistic for you to expect to diagnose this for yourself.

[Cvvc1]

With these key card renaults don't try and start them as soon as you put the key in , Insert key card and wait 10 to 20 seconds loads of cases them starting cutting out starting revs dropping shaking especially when cold but still intermittent alot of people have badly starting renaults if they don't wait I'm not saying is the case but u have to , it's not right shouldn't have to but it works I know tis isn't your main issue but so many people pull hair out over intermittent starting issues and all comes back to that


This could also be the fuel pump under back seat , had it before thought was injectors glow plugs the lot on a diesel Renault this was and turned out to be that basic fuel.pump

Edited by Cvvc1 on Sunday 2nd February 14:03

[Richard-D]

Low fuel pressure and fluctuating fuel level on dash tends to suggest a fault in the wiring to your fuel pump/level sender. These 2 components work independently of each other but share some of the same wiring.

Edit: also, don't worry about air in your fuel system as it will self bleed almost instantly.

[stevieturbo]

Stop googling bullst and take it to a competent mechanic.

[E-bmw]

stevieturbo said:

Stop googling bullst and take it to a competent mechanic.

^^^^ Wot 'e said.

And put some fuel in it first.

[fantomas100pasta]

Great. Like I said, my go-to mechanic and other garages are booked up for a week. In the meantime I thought I'd ask in a forum to see if anyone maybe had an idea.

Of course there's fuel in the car. The point was there is PLENTY of fuel, yet the gauge says there isn't ANY.

I appreciate a couple constructive comments. But, not everyone is a 'piston head.' "Stop the bull**** and take it to a mechanic" isn't that useful. Being belittled by someone just because they know more than I do is exactly why I don't ask for help.

[E-bmw]

fantomas100pasta said:

Of course there's fuel in the car. The point was there is PLENTY of fuel, yet the gauge says there isn't ANY.

You say that like it is a given, but all of your symptoms could 100% be explained by lack of fuel, and someone thinks there isn't any in.

[stevieturbo]

fantomas100pasta said:

Of course there's fuel in the car. The point was there is PLENTY of fuel, yet the gauge says there isn't ANY.

Then start with basics, investigate and fix the gauge.

[Cvvc1]

fantomas100pasta said:

Great. Like I said, my go-to mechanic and other garages are booked up for a week. In the meantime I thought I'd ask in a forum to see if anyone maybe had an idea.

Of course there's fuel in the car. The point was there is PLENTY of fuel, yet the gauge says there isn't ANY.

I appreciate a couple constructive comments. But, not everyone is a 'piston head.' "Stop the bull**** and take it to a mechanic" isn't that useful. Being belittled by someone just because they know more than I do is exactly why I don't ask for help.

. U just got some classic Renault faults here the Guage saying empty is classic , Renault disconnect the battery ten min that will fix that , . The reason it's doing that is it's been filled up with ignition on or worst engine running they don't like it and everyone saying take it to a mechanic like they are the beacon of truth and insight sometime hea better off on a forum if he actually gets help

Edited by Cvvc1 on Monday 3rd February 19:03

[E-bmw]

Cvvc1 said:

U just got some classic Renault faults here the Guage saying empty is classic , Renault disconnect the battery ten min that will fix that , . The reason it's doing that is it's been filled up with ignition on or worst engine running they don't like it

That only generally is the case at the time that it is filled up.

As in, the gauge remains at empty if reading empty at the time it is filled up and the car is left on when it is filled up.

Generally just switch off & back on & it will read right.

That is NOT what the OP is describing so unlikely to be fixed & the battery doesn't need to be disconnected either way.

[Cvvc1]

Disconnecting the battery is how you reset a Clio 4 earlier ones had another trick sometimes they correct themselves usually u need to disconnect the battery
Google Renault fuel Guage reset procedure , it doesn't have to be empty it doesn't register the new fuel and carrys on dropping from wherever the needle was previous to adding fuel

Edited by Cvvc1 on Tuesday 4th February 12:38

Edited by Cvvc1 on Tuesday 4th February 15:04

[E-bmw]

OK, there are many answers on line, many are randomly talking about rocking the car, taking it for a drive, taking it to the dealer, and many other things, I did find several saying switch it off & back on, also putting more fuel in, but tucked away in there I found just one saying to disconnect the battery, never had to do it personally but did have a Clio 2010 for a few years that did it a few times under these circumstances, and it only ever took an off/on cycle to clear it.

[Cvvc1]

E-bmw said:

OK, there are many answers on line, many are randomly talking about rocking the car, taking it for a drive, taking it to the dealer, and many other things, I did find several saying switch it off & back on, also putting more fuel in, but tucked away in there I found just one saying to disconnect the battery, never had to do it personally but did have a Clio 2010 for a few years that did it a few times under these circumstances, and it only ever took an off/on cycle to clear it.

2010 you could do the old button reset , can't on next generation models.. In the Renault dealer they don't pop to sainsbury and put a tenner in, or take fit or a spin for the afternoon ,or all pop out on their fag break and collectively give it a rock from side to side. The reset is the battery and they don't usually even charge for it and advise customer not to fuel when ignition or engine on

Edited by Cvvc1 on Tuesday 4th February 18:25

[Pica-Pica]

E-bmw said:

White smoke from a petrol engined car is steam, and nothing to worry about unless you are losing water from the coolant, in which case it could be a cylinder head gasket issue.
.

Water vapour, not steam (well, hope not steam!)