GT3 help please
Discussion
Gents,
I have a 993 C2 that I have gently modded over the last two years (RS mounts, clutch LWF, Roock susp, remap, etc), and have reached the inevitable point in life where all I can think about (well almost) is a GT3! I seem to have narrowed it down to a Mk1, based on the fact that I actually prefer the looks and they are slightly cheaper (althouh Mk2's do look like very good value).
My next decision will be CS or Comfort! Now whilst this may inevitably be decided by what is available come the time I wanted to ask the following questions:
Does the comfort have the dual mass clutch and heavier flywheel? The RS clutch and LWF on my 993 was by the best mod!
Is the CS lower than the Comfort? Speed humps are aplenty in London!
What exactly is the Sport set up that I have seen mentioned by various dealers?
If the CS does have a more aggressive track setup, is it too hard for every day and can it be easily softened?
Buckets, are they a pain for everyday and how restrictive are they for popping things in the back? Do CS's only come with Nomex or do some have leather?
Finally, www.shirleys-garage.co.uk, has a CS in, seems a good price but it has not shifted for a while, is there a bad story lurking somewhere.
Your replies and knowledge will be most welcome.
TIA
_____________________________
I have a 993 C2 that I have gently modded over the last two years (RS mounts, clutch LWF, Roock susp, remap, etc), and have reached the inevitable point in life where all I can think about (well almost) is a GT3! I seem to have narrowed it down to a Mk1, based on the fact that I actually prefer the looks and they are slightly cheaper (althouh Mk2's do look like very good value).
My next decision will be CS or Comfort! Now whilst this may inevitably be decided by what is available come the time I wanted to ask the following questions:
Does the comfort have the dual mass clutch and heavier flywheel? The RS clutch and LWF on my 993 was by the best mod!
Is the CS lower than the Comfort? Speed humps are aplenty in London!
What exactly is the Sport set up that I have seen mentioned by various dealers?
If the CS does have a more aggressive track setup, is it too hard for every day and can it be easily softened?
Buckets, are they a pain for everyday and how restrictive are they for popping things in the back? Do CS's only come with Nomex or do some have leather?
Finally, www.shirleys-garage.co.uk, has a CS in, seems a good price but it has not shifted for a while, is there a bad story lurking somewhere.
Your replies and knowledge will be most welcome.
TIA
_____________________________
I'd have a think about going for a mk1. That was my original plan, but the mk2 has a more powerful engine, gearbox cooler, stronger synchros and better brakes. That work would cost a lot on a mk1.
Of course I then got carried away and went for the RS instead, but that was my logic before I applied similar again
The buckets are fine though, and yes only the CS has the lightweight flywheel on the mk1.
The most impractical thing on my car is the rear cage as it stops you having easy access to the rear seats. You can slide the seats a long way forward though, so if you can post it through the gaps in the cage its ok. Otherwise I think its ok as a daily proposition. Setup is stiff though so make sure you test drive on enough roads types first.
Does the comfort have the dual mass clutch and heavier flywheel?
Normally, no. However, previous owner may have changed it.
Is the CS lower than the Comfort?
No they are the same ride height.
Speed humps are aplenty in London!
Occupational hazard I am afraid, the GT3 will ground out on all of them unles driven over at about 5mph.
What exactly is the Sport set up that I have seen mentioned by various dealers?
Many owners have the geometry set up for track days in order to iron out terminal understeer problems. JZM and Parr are the usual suspects.
If the CS does have a more aggressive track setup,
No both CS and comfort in unmodified spec are both set up the same way.
is it too hard for every day and can it be easily softened?
The GT3 is pretty hard straight out of the box. It can make you nervous on uneven B roads
Buckets, are they a pain for everyday and how restrictive are they for popping things in the back?
The buckets are brilliant but are definitely not easy to get in and out of. Putting shopping in the back, particularly with cage/half cage is a PITA.
Do CS's only come with Nomex or do some have leather?
Only Nomex and come with a cage as standard.
Finally, www.shirleys-garage.co.uk, has a CS in, seems a good price but it has not shifted for a while, is there a bad story lurking somewhere.
Sorry, I don't know anythng about this particular car.
Your replies and knowledge will be most welcome.
Go ahead and buy one, you will not be disappointed
My guess is that is NOT a real club sport.... I had one of the Mk1 GT3's from new and when it came to specing if you wanted leather you had to go for the comfort model. The cage was then for the Techquipment catalogue.... so can look the same but they are not.
Easiest way to quickly and visibly tell the difference is the battery kill switch on the front of the centre console. Only Club Sports have this.
Easiest way to quickly and visibly tell the difference is the battery kill switch on the front of the centre console. Only Club Sports have this.
I'm pretty certain the ride height on the MK 2 is higher than on both the MK1 and RS.
MK2 has an extra 20BHP and despite being 30KG heavier is quicker in terms of straightline speed.
I think the MK1 is a better track day car out of the box than the MK2 as it suffers from less understeer but most GT3's whether MK1 or MK2 will have had track set-ups done by the likes of Parr and JZM. This costs about £400.00 and transforms the handling.
The MK2 is better value but bear in mind the MK1 is rarer. There are I think 107 RHD MK1's in the UK of which 28 are Clubsports and the remainder Comforts.
Geoff
MK2 has an extra 20BHP and despite being 30KG heavier is quicker in terms of straightline speed.
I think the MK1 is a better track day car out of the box than the MK2 as it suffers from less understeer but most GT3's whether MK1 or MK2 will have had track set-ups done by the likes of Parr and JZM. This costs about £400.00 and transforms the handling.
The MK2 is better value but bear in mind the MK1 is rarer. There are I think 107 RHD MK1's in the UK of which 28 are Clubsports and the remainder Comforts.
Geoff
I thought mk1 & mk2 were -20mm ride from standard. The RS is -30mm and I have to take just about every type of ramp diagonally to spare the splitter.
I'm not convinced the handling differences between mk1 & mk2 are anything that can't be equalised through setup, but I'm no expert. Their is a suggestion the mk2s basic setup was tamed a tad for sale in the US, but its all adjustable so not sure it should be a concern.
If you are set on a mk1, perhaps look for one with upgraded brakes if you are keen to track it.
i will probably only do the odd trackday, and I am no stirling moss so I figure I am unlikely to use the extra 2 pots per corner that much!
Mk1 looks smaller neater and lighter and I prefer the rear spoiler?
its also rarer so maybe it will become a classic like the 993 RS, one day
Camtune have two 2000 comforts in and are asking £50k, Stirlings in cornwall have a 99 in with only 5k on the clock and he is asking £54k, what would be a reasonable offer on these cars, bearing in mind that Mk2's are now sub £60k and I have seen a few private cars in the region of £55k?
>> Edited by trig on Wednesday 28th September 07:54
Mk1 looks smaller neater and lighter and I prefer the rear spoiler?
its also rarer so maybe it will become a classic like the 993 RS, one day
Camtune have two 2000 comforts in and are asking £50k, Stirlings in cornwall have a 99 in with only 5k on the clock and he is asking £54k, what would be a reasonable offer on these cars, bearing in mind that Mk2's are now sub £60k and I have seen a few private cars in the region of £55k?
>> Edited by trig on Wednesday 28th September 07:54
The shirleys car T6*0 CBL is featured in Evo mag oct '99 edition...John Barker drives it through France to watch the eclipse. There are about 5 pages with pictures of the car, where Barker says it IS one of 21 rhd Clubports coming into the country that year.
Dunno if it is good that it is a featured car or that it was on the Porsche press fleet for the Gt3 launch?
Dunno if it is good that it is a featured car or that it was on the Porsche press fleet for the Gt3 launch?
It's also the same car used in the Top Gear feature on the car with Tiff hooning it around the track.
It's downloadable here (well, will be in 5 mins or so!):-
www.corelabs.net/gt3mk1.avi
Trig
Unless you are really looking to track the car quite regularly, I'd probably recommend that you look for a TT instead. The GT3 is a fantastic tool but you'll soon get fed up to the eye teeth in holding back all those bhp and wonderful engine noise at 6krpm around town. Believe me you will soon get piss** off with the ride, particularly around the london potholes. I put up with mine partly cos it's a bit of a hoot, but really I just count the days between trackdays, because that's what this marvellous machine was designed for. The TT on the other hand is crushingly fast on the road, much more so than the GT3 and with 4WD it's an all around more civilised drive in all but track conditions.
Unless you are really looking to track the car quite regularly, I'd probably recommend that you look for a TT instead. The GT3 is a fantastic tool but you'll soon get fed up to the eye teeth in holding back all those bhp and wonderful engine noise at 6krpm around town. Believe me you will soon get piss** off with the ride, particularly around the london potholes. I put up with mine partly cos it's a bit of a hoot, but really I just count the days between trackdays, because that's what this marvellous machine was designed for. The TT on the other hand is crushingly fast on the road, much more so than the GT3 and with 4WD it's an all around more civilised drive in all but track conditions.
good point, however I have always wanted a GT3, and mind you my 993 is not exactly a soft ride (RS ride height Roocks etc) and I regularly hang on to second at 6000rpm, just to hear my RSR's, especially on the overrun!
Once you have got the choice of £50k's worth of secondhand Porsche/sports cars at your disposal it becomes an agonising choice!
I am worried about speed humps though
cheers
Once you have got the choice of £50k's worth of secondhand Porsche/sports cars at your disposal it becomes an agonising choice!
I am worried about speed humps though
cheers
The MK2 is the better buy. I have driven just about every tuning performance derivitave of both models. The MK2 has a stronger engine and better brakes as standard and has ultimately more tuning potential. It is undervalued at the moment. Either way, both cars are fantastic. If you get a MK1, make sure that you know the history and get a rev range two print out from the ECU. Also, if it has track mods, find out who fitted them.
Good luck
Steve R
Good luck
Steve R
I've got a Mk2 GT3 and live in London - its ground clearance very, very rarely causes problems. The car can get over speed bumps no problem - just go slow. I don't understand any of these comments about the ride being too firm either... it's fine. Of course you have to watch out for the odd CHASM in London roads but if you look at the road surface when you drive then no problem.
Actually had a roll cage put in when I bought it because it looked so cool... err... Plenty of room in the back despite this... (in fact someone I know put a girl in the back WITH ROLLCAGE after a night out to get her back to his place... but that's another story
)
Only reason I don't use it everyday is because the car is so awesome, it encourages you to drive like a complete maniac ALL THE TIME.... That's the only reason, but then I've not had to contend with a winter yet.
TT's are fab but compared to the GT3 they're just way too boring.
Actually had a roll cage put in when I bought it because it looked so cool... err... Plenty of room in the back despite this... (in fact someone I know put a girl in the back WITH ROLLCAGE after a night out to get her back to his place... but that's another story
) Only reason I don't use it everyday is because the car is so awesome, it encourages you to drive like a complete maniac ALL THE TIME.... That's the only reason, but then I've not had to contend with a winter yet.
TT's are fab but compared to the GT3 they're just way too boring.
murcielago_boy said:
I've got a Mk2 GT3 and live in London - its ground clearance very, very rarely causes problems. The car can get over speed bumps no problem - just go slow. I don't understand any of these comments about the ride being too firm either... it's fine. Of course you have to watch out for the odd CHASM in London roads but if you look at the road surface when you drive then no problem.
Actually had a roll cage put in when I bought it because it looked so cool... err... Plenty of room in the back despite this... (in fact someone I know put a girl in the back WITH ROLLCAGE after a night out to get her back to his place... but that's another story
Only reason I don't use it everyday is because the car is so awesome, it encourages you to drive like a complete maniac ALL THE TIME.... That's the only reason, but then I've not had to contend with a winter yet.
TT's are fab but compared to the GT3 they're just way too boring.
Rollcage without wearing crash helmets can be very dangerous, it's very hard when your head hits it!
Murcielago Boy
Are you sure you've not been conned into buying a C2 with an aerokit and gt3 badge on the back.
My MK1 grounds out on every speed bump in the road unless approached at 45 degrees or taken at 1 mph. It is most evident with those pillow type square bloody bumps that are lined up 2 abreast(the ones you can drive straight over in a Range Rover. Also a nightmare on car park exit ramps. Still an awesome car though.
CS cage came in 2 parts, front and rear, many owners never fitted the front or took it out due to inconvenience factor. Rear cage should not be a problem as far as banging head is concerned.
>> Edited by paulburrell on Wednesday 28th September 17:17
Are you sure you've not been conned into buying a C2 with an aerokit and gt3 badge on the back.
My MK1 grounds out on every speed bump in the road unless approached at 45 degrees or taken at 1 mph. It is most evident with those pillow type square bloody bumps that are lined up 2 abreast(the ones you can drive straight over in a Range Rover. Also a nightmare on car park exit ramps. Still an awesome car though.
CS cage came in 2 parts, front and rear, many owners never fitted the front or took it out due to inconvenience factor. Rear cage should not be a problem as far as banging head is concerned.
>> Edited by paulburrell on Wednesday 28th September 17:17
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