Tesla Autonomous Driving - A Con All Along
Discussion
'Elon Musk Admits He Was Wrong – After 9 Years of Saying the Opposite, He Reneges on Autonomous Driving Promises'
https://unionrayo.com/en/elon-musk-self-driving-fa...
Interesting to see how this affects those purchase upgrades from years gone.
https://unionrayo.com/en/elon-musk-self-driving-fa...
Interesting to see how this affects those purchase upgrades from years gone.
Anyone who tested it for more than 5 mins could have easily seen it was a waste of money at the stage it’s been at for years. Furthermore, fsd is still not legal in the eu so buying this upgrade would have also been a bet on the legal framework changing as well as fsd actually working.
TLDR you would have to have been a complete moron to buy the fsd option at any stage in the last 10 years.
TLDR you would have to have been a complete moron to buy the fsd option at any stage in the last 10 years.
This random article from a no-name outlet is a touch biased to say the least.
The crux of it is that in order to use unsupervised FSD (where you can pay zero attention to the outside world), the car will need AI4, which is the current latest camera and computer package, having been fitted to most cars since 2023.
Tesla originally stated that AI3 (the previous version, fitted to cars 2019 onwards) would have been enough to run unsupervised FSD, but are now suggesting this is no longer the case.
What it is not, however, is a “con” because those who have purchased FSD on an AI3 car will be able to have it upgraded for free by Tesla.
Outside of the US this is all a moot point anyway really as you’d have to be clinically insane to spend the money on FSD because it basically does nothing over and above the free stuff.
I’ve been in a US Tesla with the current supervised FSD and it’s pretty amazing… vastly different to what’s allowed here.
The crux of it is that in order to use unsupervised FSD (where you can pay zero attention to the outside world), the car will need AI4, which is the current latest camera and computer package, having been fitted to most cars since 2023.
Tesla originally stated that AI3 (the previous version, fitted to cars 2019 onwards) would have been enough to run unsupervised FSD, but are now suggesting this is no longer the case.
What it is not, however, is a “con” because those who have purchased FSD on an AI3 car will be able to have it upgraded for free by Tesla.
Outside of the US this is all a moot point anyway really as you’d have to be clinically insane to spend the money on FSD because it basically does nothing over and above the free stuff.
I’ve been in a US Tesla with the current supervised FSD and it’s pretty amazing… vastly different to what’s allowed here.
David87 said:
This random article from a no-name outlet is a touch biased to say the least.
The crux of it is that in order to use unsupervised FSD (where you can pay zero attention to the outside world), the car will need AI4, which is the current latest camera and computer package, having been fitted to most cars since 2023.
Tesla originally stated that AI3 (the previous version, fitted to cars 2019 onwards) would have been enough to run unsupervised FSD, but are now suggesting this is no longer the case.
What it is not, however, is a “con” because those who have purchased FSD on an AI3 car will be able to have it upgraded for free by Tesla.
Outside of the US this is all a moot point anyway really as you’d have to be clinically insane to spend the money on FSD because it basically does nothing over and above the free stuff.
I’ve been in a US Tesla with the current supervised FSD and it’s pretty amazing… vastly different to what’s allowed here.
Right up until the moment it drives you into the side of a truck at motorway speed, as a bit of sun glare confused it.The crux of it is that in order to use unsupervised FSD (where you can pay zero attention to the outside world), the car will need AI4, which is the current latest camera and computer package, having been fitted to most cars since 2023.
Tesla originally stated that AI3 (the previous version, fitted to cars 2019 onwards) would have been enough to run unsupervised FSD, but are now suggesting this is no longer the case.
What it is not, however, is a “con” because those who have purchased FSD on an AI3 car will be able to have it upgraded for free by Tesla.
Outside of the US this is all a moot point anyway really as you’d have to be clinically insane to spend the money on FSD because it basically does nothing over and above the free stuff.
I’ve been in a US Tesla with the current supervised FSD and it’s pretty amazing… vastly different to what’s allowed here.
There's a reason that isn't allowed here or in the EU.
David87 said:
This random article from a no-name outlet is a touch biased to say the least.
The crux of it is that in order to use unsupervised FSD (where you can pay zero attention to the outside world), the car will need AI4, which is the current latest camera and computer package, having been fitted to most cars since 2023.
Tesla originally stated that AI3 (the previous version, fitted to cars 2019 onwards) would have been enough to run unsupervised FSD, but are now suggesting this is no longer the case.
What it is not, however, is a “con” because those who have purchased FSD on an AI3 car will be able to have it upgraded for free by Tesla.
Outside of the US this is all a moot point anyway really as you’d have to be clinically insane to spend the money on FSD because it basically does nothing over and above the free stuff.
I’ve been in a US Tesla with the current supervised FSD and it’s pretty amazing… vastly different to what’s allowed here.
As a previous owner of a 68 plate S with FSD it was dead easy to work out its main problem was the side cameras pointed rearwards down the flanks of the car left two massive blind spots parallel to the front wings. The crux of it is that in order to use unsupervised FSD (where you can pay zero attention to the outside world), the car will need AI4, which is the current latest camera and computer package, having been fitted to most cars since 2023.
Tesla originally stated that AI3 (the previous version, fitted to cars 2019 onwards) would have been enough to run unsupervised FSD, but are now suggesting this is no longer the case.
What it is not, however, is a “con” because those who have purchased FSD on an AI3 car will be able to have it upgraded for free by Tesla.
Outside of the US this is all a moot point anyway really as you’d have to be clinically insane to spend the money on FSD because it basically does nothing over and above the free stuff.
I’ve been in a US Tesla with the current supervised FSD and it’s pretty amazing… vastly different to what’s allowed here.
Fix that - maybe that’s the 2023 update - and I’d say there’s a chance it’d work much better.
jonathan_roberts said:
Anyone who tested it for more than 5 mins could have easily seen it was a waste of money at the stage it’s been at for years. Furthermore, fsd is still not legal in the eu so buying this upgrade would have also been a bet on the legal framework changing as well as fsd actually working.
TLDR you would have to have been a complete moron to buy the fsd option at any stage in the last 10 years.
Switzerland is legalising self-driving cars this year, albeit within very strict limits (motorway) - and Teslas won't be eligible.TLDR you would have to have been a complete moron to buy the fsd option at any stage in the last 10 years.
They used to promise free upgrades, I don’t believe that’s the case anymore. He’s previously said AI3/HW3 owners would just get a “not as good” version.
It’s also speculation that AI4 will be sufficient.
However, when even Tesla defend themselves in court saying that nobody should believe Musk as his words are “corporate puffery” I suggest everybody takes note, and just stop believing anything he says on the topic. It’s somewhat amazing that people still want to ignore this simple, self proclaimed fact and think this time it will be true!
https://electrek.co/2024/10/02/elon-musk-celebrate...
It’s also speculation that AI4 will be sufficient.
However, when even Tesla defend themselves in court saying that nobody should believe Musk as his words are “corporate puffery” I suggest everybody takes note, and just stop believing anything he says on the topic. It’s somewhat amazing that people still want to ignore this simple, self proclaimed fact and think this time it will be true!
https://electrek.co/2024/10/02/elon-musk-celebrate...
I never believed FSD would do what Musk promised it would, but I have used various versions and it works well in the right circumstances (motorway cruising) to minimize fatigue.
I recently did a 1300-mile road trip (in 2 days) and subscribed to FSD for 1 month ($99) to use on the trip. IMHO, it was WELL worth that investment.
I recently did a 1300-mile road trip (in 2 days) and subscribed to FSD for 1 month ($99) to use on the trip. IMHO, it was WELL worth that investment.
Zcd1 said:
I never believed FSD would do what Musk promised it would, but I have used various versions and it works well in the right circumstances (motorway cruising) to minimize fatigue.
I recently did a 1300-mile road trip (in 2 days) and subscribed to FSD for 1 month ($99) to use on the trip. IMHO, it was WELL worth that investment.
I drive all over the U.K. in our iX and it’s more usable than the Tesla offering here, and no phantom braking makes it quite relaxing. If Tesla ever get round to porting the US version to EU regulations then we might get the benefit, but until they stop blaming our regulations and start biding with them like every other manufacturer, we just have to put up with excuses I recently did a 1300-mile road trip (in 2 days) and subscribed to FSD for 1 month ($99) to use on the trip. IMHO, it was WELL worth that investment.
I expect we will see a slightly modified version of FSD available at some point this year thanks to a UN regulation for 'L2+' called DCAS. It will apply to EU, GB, Japan, Australia, South Korea etc
It could be nearly the entire FSD, except the driver would need to 'confirm' a manoeuvre instead of it being done automatically.
For anyone as boring as I am, link is below
https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2024-12/ECE-...
It could be nearly the entire FSD, except the driver would need to 'confirm' a manoeuvre instead of it being done automatically.
For anyone as boring as I am, link is below
https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2024-12/ECE-...
FlabbyMidgets said:
I expect we will see a slightly modified version of FSD available at some point this year thanks to a UN regulation for 'L2+' called DCAS. It will apply to EU, GB, Japan, Australia, South Korea etc
It could be nearly the entire FSD, except the driver would need to 'confirm' a manoeuvre instead of it being done automatically.
For anyone as boring as I am, link is below
https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2024-12/ECE-...
Progress! Though confirmation may become its own problem.It could be nearly the entire FSD, except the driver would need to 'confirm' a manoeuvre instead of it being done automatically.
For anyone as boring as I am, link is below
https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2024-12/ECE-...
I recently added Enhanced Autopilot (use 'em or lose 'em referral credits). That adds navigate on autopilot and automated lane change functionality. The latter may be where the new UN regs take us.
When on NOA the car detects a lane change is preferable and asks you to indicate to confirm - it then changes lane. Or you can indicate to request a lane change - that's also true on normal autopilot if you have EAP.
I've found that the car is either hesitant to suggest a lane change, or is suggesting one that's unsuitable / dangerous. Worse is the "Full Self Driving Capability" which takes EAP and adds Green Light recognition. As with a lane change you have to confirm the action. In this case that you want to proceed through a green light. If you don't confirm THE CAR WILL STOP AT A GREEN SIGNAL.
I'm not sure how much of this madness relates to the UN rules or to the way Tesla are trying to comply with them. To make any advancements wiith Autopilot outside north America we'd need the global software stack binned and replaced by the North American one with mods for UN compliance. Confirm the manuever? Would be easier just to drive manually.
JustGetATesla said:
I'm not sure how much of this madness relates to the UN rules or to the way Tesla are trying to comply with them. To make any advancements wiith Autopilot outside north America we'd need the global software stack binned and replaced by the North American one with mods for UN compliance. Confirm the manuever? Would be easier just to drive manually.
Nothing to do with UN rules as other cars manage it perfectly well. I thought you'd know that being a self proclaimed Tesla guruJustGetATesla said:
Progress! Though confirmation may become its own problem.
I recently added Enhanced Autopilot (use 'em or lose 'em referral credits). That adds navigate on autopilot and automated lane change functionality. The latter may be where the new UN regs take us.
When on NOA the car detects a lane change is preferable and asks you to indicate to confirm - it then changes lane. Or you can indicate to request a lane change - that's also true on normal autopilot if you have EAP.
I've found that the car is either hesitant to suggest a lane change, or is suggesting one that's unsuitable / dangerous. Worse is the "Full Self Driving Capability" which takes EAP and adds Green Light recognition. As with a lane change you have to confirm the action. In this case that you want to proceed through a green light. If you don't confirm THE CAR WILL STOP AT A GREEN SIGNAL.
I'm not sure how much of this madness relates to the UN rules or to the way Tesla are trying to comply with them. To make any advancements wiith Autopilot outside north America we'd need the global software stack binned and replaced by the North American one with mods for UN compliance. Confirm the manuever? Would be easier just to drive manually.
Forgot to add on highway that regulation will allow a 'system-initiated' manoeuvre without any confirmation, however for any manoeuvres off highway confirmation will be required. I recently added Enhanced Autopilot (use 'em or lose 'em referral credits). That adds navigate on autopilot and automated lane change functionality. The latter may be where the new UN regs take us.
When on NOA the car detects a lane change is preferable and asks you to indicate to confirm - it then changes lane. Or you can indicate to request a lane change - that's also true on normal autopilot if you have EAP.
I've found that the car is either hesitant to suggest a lane change, or is suggesting one that's unsuitable / dangerous. Worse is the "Full Self Driving Capability" which takes EAP and adds Green Light recognition. As with a lane change you have to confirm the action. In this case that you want to proceed through a green light. If you don't confirm THE CAR WILL STOP AT A GREEN SIGNAL.
I'm not sure how much of this madness relates to the UN rules or to the way Tesla are trying to comply with them. To make any advancements wiith Autopilot outside north America we'd need the global software stack binned and replaced by the North American one with mods for UN compliance. Confirm the manuever? Would be easier just to drive manually.
This new regulation should address some of the issues, it allows a lot more flexibility than is previously allowed. It also lets you take hands-off on highway, paving the way for more systems like Ford Bluecruise.
It will be interesting to see where this regulation goes next
Interesting article on the matter here, and the role of the UK in discussions
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/08/br...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/03/08/br...
Zcd1 said:
I never believed FSD would do what Musk promised it would, but I have used various versions and it works well in the right circumstances (motorway cruising) to minimize fatigue.
I recently did a 1300-mile road trip (in 2 days) and subscribed to FSD for 1 month ($99) to use on the trip. IMHO, it was WELL worth that investment.
Same boat here, have a Model S with 120000km on it, I'd say close to 90% of the motorway miles are on FSD. Works well for that, better than other cars I've tried it in, but I imagined others have caught up by now.I recently did a 1300-mile road trip (in 2 days) and subscribed to FSD for 1 month ($99) to use on the trip. IMHO, it was WELL worth that investment.
It's also a lot better than it was 5 years ago when we first got it due to updates, which is nice. The one in the Passat was horrible when you got it and you know it'll never get any better.
Update: I actually ended up purchasing FSD after Tesla announced that FSD would be "subscription only" after February 14, 2026. My car was produced during a timeframe where FSD purchase was $2K (USD), rather than $8/$10/$12K, and since I expect to keep the car for at least 3 more years, that seemed a good value for the functionality.
I've since done 2 significant road-trips (350- and 700-mile round trips) and have to say that the current iteration of FSD is frankly amazing. Punching the destination into the NAV and then relaxing with my hands near (but not touching) the wheel is SO much less fatiguing - it's fantastic. And lest anyone think that this must be dangerous, if I look away from the road for more than a few seconds, the car scolds me to pay attention, and will disengage if I ignore the scolding.
Experiencing the car driving straight to the Supercharging location, locate and choose an empty stall and expertly back right in, stopping at the perfect spot, feels like sorcery - it's astounding. 15-20 minutes later, unplug, tap the FSD button again, and you're off to the next destination.
I rarely use FSD when just tooling around town, because after all, I enjoy driving, but when the trip is a long slog on a motorway, give me FSD every time.
I've since done 2 significant road-trips (350- and 700-mile round trips) and have to say that the current iteration of FSD is frankly amazing. Punching the destination into the NAV and then relaxing with my hands near (but not touching) the wheel is SO much less fatiguing - it's fantastic. And lest anyone think that this must be dangerous, if I look away from the road for more than a few seconds, the car scolds me to pay attention, and will disengage if I ignore the scolding.
Experiencing the car driving straight to the Supercharging location, locate and choose an empty stall and expertly back right in, stopping at the perfect spot, feels like sorcery - it's astounding. 15-20 minutes later, unplug, tap the FSD button again, and you're off to the next destination.
I rarely use FSD when just tooling around town, because after all, I enjoy driving, but when the trip is a long slog on a motorway, give me FSD every time.
Edited by Zcd1 on Thursday 5th March 21:59
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