Ultima Can-Am vs Radical SR3
Discussion
Without getting all emotional 
does anyone have experience of driving both these cars in both a road and/or track situation. If so, which one is generally quickest (I know the Can-Am's going to d1ck an SR3 for top speed, but I'm talking lap times round your average circuit, say Brands/Cadwell, etc), and is the Ultima that much more of a road car than the SR3?
Any other opinions welcome.
Specs I'm considering are the 252hp SR3 and a 600hp Can-Am. I'm not in the UK at the moment which is why I haven't tried either.
Does anyone have 0-400m times as well (or an estimate) - I'll be using the car for heavy promotion and it will involve drag racing.
does anyone have experience of driving both these cars in both a road and/or track situation. If so, which one is generally quickest (I know the Can-Am's going to d1ck an SR3 for top speed, but I'm talking lap times round your average circuit, say Brands/Cadwell, etc), and is the Ultima that much more of a road car than the SR3? Any other opinions welcome.
Specs I'm considering are the 252hp SR3 and a 600hp Can-Am. I'm not in the UK at the moment which is why I haven't tried either.
Does anyone have 0-400m times as well (or an estimate) - I'll be using the car for heavy promotion and it will involve drag racing.
thanks Stig. It's hard to know because the Radical quotes 2g cornering and the Ultima a little over 1g. This wouldn't make much difference at Pukekohe (I'm in New Zealand - www.motorsport.org.nz/Tracks/pukekohe.htm), because it's a fast track, but at Taupo (www.motorsport.org.nz/Tracks/taupo.htm) which is like a gokart track it probably would. I'm wondering if putting a turbo kit on the Hayabusa to bring it up to 400-450hp would allow an SR3 to keep up or whether it would make it too unreliable - 300hp/litre is F1-tastic. Probably top speed would still be an issue down the 1km back straight at Pukekohe.
Darren, note that you are from NZ, and interested in the CAN-AM. I am from the mainland, Australia (sorry hbad to put the poke in there). I am in the last throws of purchasing and starting the build of my CAN-AM. I note the intended use and it matches mine. That is why I have gone for a different engine selection. I am fitting the twin turbo V6 out of the 300zx. I am also using the speed sensitve power steering rack, to help with those lower speeds without lossing feed back. The lighter engine, with greater torque and power than the LS1 should make for a great track car. Drop us a line at PeteandDave@bigpond.com.au if you want to chat further.
Dave, Re 300ZX motor, I'm thinking of Skyline 2.6 litre RBDETT (?), twin turbo pumping about 600HP - it's way cheaper than a big block (a mate has a tuning shop and can help me out), and it also means I can turn the boost down for daily driving and conserving the engine. Plus, I'm used to turbo cars. Someone I talked to here recommended a WRX STI motor with a Possum Link in it - I have a 300HP STI now and have been advised NOT to modify it more than it is (filter, downpipe, derestrictor) because you can get probs, whereas Skyline motors are good for up to 650-700HP without too much modification. Are you putting a Hollinger sequential 'box in? I hadn't considered the power steering rack yet - this probably won't be for another 6-9 months - I'm heading back to the UK in July and might order one then, or is there a distributor in Oz?
By the way Darren those 2G's are attainable with aerodynamic assistance, not skidpad G's. They do not stipulate at what speed they are getting that grip nor do they say what modifications are done to the car. The Ultima's G's are strictly skidpad.
P.S. That video clip that Stig posted, I saw it on Radicals site. It is funny that they would put it up without realizing that it shows the Ultima destroying them. The clip is the Castle track. That Ultima is never to be seen again as it walks away.
P.S. That video clip that Stig posted, I saw it on Radicals site. It is funny that they would put it up without realizing that it shows the Ultima destroying them. The clip is the Castle track. That Ultima is never to be seen again as it walks away.
Derestrictor said:
Stig said: Wanna buy it?
I often - quite criminally (and I do, therefore, offer my most profound apologies where relevant) - overlook the sheer brutallity of the wedge fraternity within the Tiv fraternity.
It is wonderful so why would you wish to be rid?
Just need the space in the workshop! It's a mad car and I love it. However, the GTR is gonna be even madder
Darren, you might have trouble with the straight six for height in the Can Am. I am still unsure that I'll get the V6 to fit. As far as the power steering is concerned I am a bit hesitant to put too much up as yet, until I get it to work, but it uses the Nissan speed sensitive system to reduce assistance once speed increases. Will put photos through once fitted in a couple of months.
As for the holienger, you must be thinking along the same lines, do you have any info on them? I would be really curious to see how much they are.
Also I too am using the link computer for the V6, I stand by Possum's work with this computer. I have used it before and it really gets the best out of any engine it fits.
Also I'd take an Ultima anyday, over the Radical.
>> Edited by dieseldave on Sunday 3rd November 22:05
As for the holienger, you must be thinking along the same lines, do you have any info on them? I would be really curious to see how much they are.
Also I too am using the link computer for the V6, I stand by Possum's work with this computer. I have used it before and it really gets the best out of any engine it fits.
Also I'd take an Ultima anyday, over the Radical.
>> Edited by dieseldave on Sunday 3rd November 22:05
A can-am with 500+ bhp will go down the quarter in sub 11.4 seconds, probably sub 11 seconds if I can keep the drive shafts together!
If you put a turbo on the Busa and get 400bhp in the radical I expect it'll be quicker, but there is an Ultima in the USA with twin Turbo's and over 1000bhp and that went sub 10 seconds.
By the way the Ultima takes a Small block not a Big block, and if you can get 500+bhp from a turbo engine for sub 10k then I'll have a few of them myself.
If you put a turbo on the Busa and get 400bhp in the radical I expect it'll be quicker, but there is an Ultima in the USA with twin Turbo's and over 1000bhp and that went sub 10 seconds.
By the way the Ultima takes a Small block not a Big block, and if you can get 500+bhp from a turbo engine for sub 10k then I'll have a few of them myself.
ultimaandy said:
By the way the Ultima takes a Small block not a Big block, and if you can get 500+bhp from a turbo engine for sub 10k then I'll have a few of them myself.
Try Paul Ohlsen @ www.ohlsendevelopments.co.nz. He can do you a Mitsi 4G63 2 litre (expanded to 2.4 litre), approx 500hp for around NZ$35k (approx UKP10k), or a Nissan RB26DETT for slightly more and easily 600HP. The problem is finding the RB26 engine!!
He has a 450HP Mitsi Mirage which will do high 10's quarters - it's on the site. He'll also make stuff up and send overseas - his father was on the design team of the Shelby Cobra so he's one of the few people in the world who is licensed to make 'original' Daytona Cobras.
Finding an RB26 is not to tuff. It has been something I have also thought of. I was told however that they are not that light of an engine. I have not pursued this into great detail yet as my project was delayed but if you know differently please do tell. I have also wondered about the potential of a new Renesis motor.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1871242367
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1871242367
ultimaandy said: A can-am with 500+ bhp will go down the quarter in sub 11.4 seconds, probably sub 11 seconds if I can keep the drive shafts together!
Ultima in the USA with twin Turbo's and over 1000bhp and that went sub 10 seconds.
quote]
This sems strange
The Ultima can run 10,9/150 on 540hp,ted told me
And why should the drive shaft brake,the heavy duty items are listed for 1000hp
>> Edited by GTRmannen on Monday 4th November 11:10
GTRmannen said:
This sems strange
The Ultima can run 10,9/150 on 540hp,ted told me
And why should the drive shaft brake,the heavy duty items are listed for 1000hp
My car ran 11.4 sec with bad traction. When I did get the start right and got traction I wasted a CV joint on the N/S drive shaft.
It only broke beacause Ford ones had mistakenly been fitted to my drive shafts instead of the GKN ones, I have now rectified this and am confident it will get down to very low 11's maybe high 10's.
Teds car that did 10.9 was a race car and weighed much less than my can-am (miles lighter than a GTR) and I may have dificulty matching it, but I will have a go.
As a point the ford CV's actually lasted very well and survived many miles on the road and track. (can't reliably cope with 500+bhp though)
I don't think the comparision with the radical in the video is particularly fair. The radical in the video is an 1100cc clubsport. If it had the 1500cc busa engine I think the story would be different. The big advantage the radical has is weight and downforce. Especially on fast corners the radical will be a lot faster than a stock GTR. Now if you have big HP and long straights the GTR is at an advantage. Above about 140mph the Radical will start to loose out.
Whilst the Ultima is a great street/track day car it isn't a brilliant race car out of the box. I have a friend with a GTR street car and also know a race team who succesfully ran a GTR in the local GT series here in Canada. By the time they had finished with the car it was within a second or 2 to a Porsche GT1. However, not much of a standard Ultima was left. They modified the suspension geometry, frame, fitted rollbars, rear diffuser, front splitter, different front uprights, six piston brakes, rose jointed suspension, modified bodywork and centre lock 18" slicks. The engine they ran was a smallblock producing 650hp mated to a hewland six speed gearbox. They snapped the input shaft off two G50/52 porsche gearboxes before switching to the hewland.
Whilst the Ultima is a great street/track day car it isn't a brilliant race car out of the box. I have a friend with a GTR street car and also know a race team who succesfully ran a GTR in the local GT series here in Canada. By the time they had finished with the car it was within a second or 2 to a Porsche GT1. However, not much of a standard Ultima was left. They modified the suspension geometry, frame, fitted rollbars, rear diffuser, front splitter, different front uprights, six piston brakes, rose jointed suspension, modified bodywork and centre lock 18" slicks. The engine they ran was a smallblock producing 650hp mated to a hewland six speed gearbox. They snapped the input shaft off two G50/52 porsche gearboxes before switching to the hewland.
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