Registered Keeper when car sold to trade?
Discussion
My daughter has just had a speeding ticket (27 in a 20) for a car she sold to a trader/recovery operator late November
Her car had failed its MOT on corrosion sills. It wasn't worth fixing so we sold in on FB Marketplace for a few hundred. The buyer said he would probably fix it up for his son but IIRC he decided to register it to his trade business while he was working on it.
We are 99% certain we got notification of the transfer from the DVLA. My daughter said she asked when she got the letter to see if there way anything else she needed to do. I vaguely recall the conversation!
I've checked the MOT and Tax status and it's since been repaired and put back on the road.
From Google selling it to trade should remove you as the keeper, so what happens when a trader then commits a speeding offence? How is it traced back to them, and why is my daughter getting the ticket?
Obviously we returned the ticket filling out the but that says she sold the car, but what happens if its still in her name?
Her car had failed its MOT on corrosion sills. It wasn't worth fixing so we sold in on FB Marketplace for a few hundred. The buyer said he would probably fix it up for his son but IIRC he decided to register it to his trade business while he was working on it.
We are 99% certain we got notification of the transfer from the DVLA. My daughter said she asked when she got the letter to see if there way anything else she needed to do. I vaguely recall the conversation!
I've checked the MOT and Tax status and it's since been repaired and put back on the road.
From Google selling it to trade should remove you as the keeper, so what happens when a trader then commits a speeding offence? How is it traced back to them, and why is my daughter getting the ticket?
Obviously we returned the ticket filling out the but that says she sold the car, but what happens if its still in her name?
Forget what smalltime traders say they will do because 9 times out of 10 they don't
This was handled wrong from the start, firstly you should have done it online then you have an instant traceable acknowledgment that you are no longer the keeper. If doing it via the post then it is the sellers responsibilty to send of the document to notify the DVLA not the dealer unless it is a big mainstream one and they say they will do it for you and even then there have been numerous stories on here where it doesn't happen
Google is not always your friend, there is nothing automatic about changing the keeper, one party has to send the paperwork
This was handled wrong from the start, firstly you should have done it online then you have an instant traceable acknowledgment that you are no longer the keeper. If doing it via the post then it is the sellers responsibilty to send of the document to notify the DVLA not the dealer unless it is a big mainstream one and they say they will do it for you and even then there have been numerous stories on here where it doesn't happen
Google is not always your friend, there is nothing automatic about changing the keeper, one party has to send the paperwork
Edited by martinbiz on Tuesday 18th February 11:52
Edited by martinbiz on Tuesday 18th February 11:59
What is the timescale between selling the car and the receiving the NIP?
There will be a section on the NIP to fill in if you have sold the car, so just do that with as much information as you can. You are no longer the keeper, so your obligation is to give as much information that is in your power to give, not to have to name the driver
There will be a section on the NIP to fill in if you have sold the car, so just do that with as much information as you can. You are no longer the keeper, so your obligation is to give as much information that is in your power to give, not to have to name the driver
martinbiz said:
Forget what smalltime traders say will do because 9 times out of 10 they don't
This was handled wrong from the start, firstly you should have done it online then you have an instant traceable acknwlegement that you are no longer the keeper. If doing it via the post then it is the sellers responsibilty to send of the document to notify the DVLA not the dealer unless it is a big mainstream one and they say they will do it for you and even then there have been stories on here where it doesn't happen
If paper is an option then it's not wrong to do it by post. I'm pretty sure we did it on line at the point of sale (on his phone) and I'm 99% certain we got a letter/notification back from the DVLA. The fact my daughter got the ticket is now making me question my recollection.This was handled wrong from the start, firstly you should have done it online then you have an instant traceable acknwlegement that you are no longer the keeper. If doing it via the post then it is the sellers responsibilty to send of the document to notify the DVLA not the dealer unless it is a big mainstream one and they say they will do it for you and even then there have been stories on here where it doesn't happen
When my daughter got the ticket she immediately said that she got a letter from the DVLA saying she was no longer the keeper.
98elise said:
martinbiz said:
Forget what smalltime traders say will do because 9 times out of 10 they don't
This was handled wrong from the start, firstly you should have done it online then you have an instant traceable acknwlegement that you are no longer the keeper. If doing it via the post then it is the sellers responsibilty to send of the document to notify the DVLA not the dealer unless it is a big mainstream one and they say they will do it for you and even then there have been stories on here where it doesn't happen
If paper is an option then it's not wrong to do it by post. I'm pretty sure we did it on line at the point of sale (on his phone) and I'm 99% certain we got a letter/notification back from the DVLA. The fact my daughter got the ticket is now making me question my recollection.This was handled wrong from the start, firstly you should have done it online then you have an instant traceable acknwlegement that you are no longer the keeper. If doing it via the post then it is the sellers responsibilty to send of the document to notify the DVLA not the dealer unless it is a big mainstream one and they say they will do it for you and even then there have been stories on here where it doesn't happen
When my daughter got the ticket she immediately said that she got a letter from the DVLA saying she was no longer the keeper.
Your daughter has the ticket because it probably isn't registered to a keeper and she is the last one known which is what normally happens
Edited by martinbiz on Tuesday 18th February 12:05
The DVLA database has to have a name next to the owner of a car (whether that be a legal entity or individual) so in some cases you can still have your name next to a car you don't own.
In my case it was a car I sold to some young chaps from Birmingham. Whilst doing all the paperwork on the sale (after a long and protracted negotiation on price despite agreeing a price before hand...) the cousin of the new owner took the V5 and transferred ownership there and then. Got the cash, passed over keys and a few days later I got the paper slip from DVLA saying I'm no longer the registered keeper. All good.
Just under 2 years later I start receiving NIPs (15 and counting). After lots of emails between Birmingham police and DVLA it turns out these guys had marked the car for scrap (a car they bought for £7k!) and a quirk of the DVLA database is it reverts the issue of NIPs etc to the last registered keeper in the event that it's marked as scrapped, exported etc.
Luckily I still had the full name, email address and phone number of the person who bought it from me so the police were able to find the owner from that.
My advice is to email the DVLA and ask them to confirm the date of transfer/sale. If they did transfer it by any means then this will show up on their database and you can request confirmation of the date of transfer. Bear in mind though it takes two weeks to respond to the email!! If the buyer is still running it under your daughters name then get in touch with the police and state that you sold the car on xx date and sold it to YY person. If you don't have the full details they should still be able to get the info from askMID (or more likely their database!).
It's going to be a stressfull few weeks whilst this is ironed out but hold faith, it worked out in my situation so hopefully will with yours.
In my case it was a car I sold to some young chaps from Birmingham. Whilst doing all the paperwork on the sale (after a long and protracted negotiation on price despite agreeing a price before hand...) the cousin of the new owner took the V5 and transferred ownership there and then. Got the cash, passed over keys and a few days later I got the paper slip from DVLA saying I'm no longer the registered keeper. All good.
Just under 2 years later I start receiving NIPs (15 and counting). After lots of emails between Birmingham police and DVLA it turns out these guys had marked the car for scrap (a car they bought for £7k!) and a quirk of the DVLA database is it reverts the issue of NIPs etc to the last registered keeper in the event that it's marked as scrapped, exported etc.
Luckily I still had the full name, email address and phone number of the person who bought it from me so the police were able to find the owner from that.
My advice is to email the DVLA and ask them to confirm the date of transfer/sale. If they did transfer it by any means then this will show up on their database and you can request confirmation of the date of transfer. Bear in mind though it takes two weeks to respond to the email!! If the buyer is still running it under your daughters name then get in touch with the police and state that you sold the car on xx date and sold it to YY person. If you don't have the full details they should still be able to get the info from askMID (or more likely their database!).
It's going to be a stressfull few weeks whilst this is ironed out but hold faith, it worked out in my situation so hopefully will with yours.
QuattroDave said:
My advice is to email the DVLA and ask them to confirm the date of transfer/sale. If they did transfer it by any means then this will show up on their database and you can request confirmation of the date of transfer. Bear in mind though it takes two weeks to respond to the email!! If the buyer is still running it under your daughters name then get in touch with the police and state that you sold the car on xx date and sold it to YY person. If you don't have the full details they should still be able to get the info from askMID (or more likely their database!).
That's not really necessary.As a person other than keeper (or 'any other person'), the OP's daughter is required only to provide any information which is in her power to give and which may help identify the driver.
There is no obligation placed on her to show 'reasonable diligence', let alone launch an investigation of her own.
martinbiz said:
What is the timescale between selling the car and the receiving the NIP?
There will be a section on the NIP to fill in if you have sold the car, so just do that with as much information as you can. You are no longer the keeper, so your obligation is to give as much information that is in your power to give, not to have to name the driver
Sold late November, NIP in received this week. There will be a section on the NIP to fill in if you have sold the car, so just do that with as much information as you can. You are no longer the keeper, so your obligation is to give as much information that is in your power to give, not to have to name the driver
We've sent the form back with the relevant section filled out for not being the owner/keeper any more.
I'm going to apply to the current RK name and address from DVLA. It seems being the previous owner is a legitimate reason.
QuattroDave said:
The DVLA database has to have a name next to the owner of a car (whether that be a legal entity or individual) so in some cases you can still have your name next to a car you don't own.
In my case it was a car I sold to some young chaps from Birmingham. Whilst doing all the paperwork on the sale (after a long and protracted negotiation on price despite agreeing a price before hand...) the cousin of the new owner took the V5 and transferred ownership there and then. Got the cash, passed over keys and a few days later I got the paper slip from DVLA saying I'm no longer the registered keeper. All good.
Just under 2 years later I start receiving NIPs (15 and counting). After lots of emails between Birmingham police and DVLA it turns out these guys had marked the car for scrap (a car they bought for £7k!) and a quirk of the DVLA database is it reverts the issue of NIPs etc to the last registered keeper in the event that it's marked as scrapped, exported etc.
Luckily I still had the full name, email address and phone number of the person who bought it from me so the police were able to find the owner from that.
My advice is to email the DVLA and ask them to confirm the date of transfer/sale. If they did transfer it by any means then this will show up on their database and you can request confirmation of the date of transfer. Bear in mind though it takes two weeks to respond to the email!! If the buyer is still running it under your daughters name then get in touch with the police and state that you sold the car on xx date and sold it to YY person. If you don't have the full details they should still be able to get the info from askMID (or more likely their database!).
It's going to be a stressfull few weeks whilst this is ironed out but hold faith, it worked out in my situation so hopefully will with yours.
Thanks, that may explain why my daughter is still linked as the RK if its not yet been registered to an individual (as opposed to the trade).In my case it was a car I sold to some young chaps from Birmingham. Whilst doing all the paperwork on the sale (after a long and protracted negotiation on price despite agreeing a price before hand...) the cousin of the new owner took the V5 and transferred ownership there and then. Got the cash, passed over keys and a few days later I got the paper slip from DVLA saying I'm no longer the registered keeper. All good.
Just under 2 years later I start receiving NIPs (15 and counting). After lots of emails between Birmingham police and DVLA it turns out these guys had marked the car for scrap (a car they bought for £7k!) and a quirk of the DVLA database is it reverts the issue of NIPs etc to the last registered keeper in the event that it's marked as scrapped, exported etc.
Luckily I still had the full name, email address and phone number of the person who bought it from me so the police were able to find the owner from that.
My advice is to email the DVLA and ask them to confirm the date of transfer/sale. If they did transfer it by any means then this will show up on their database and you can request confirmation of the date of transfer. Bear in mind though it takes two weeks to respond to the email!! If the buyer is still running it under your daughters name then get in touch with the police and state that you sold the car on xx date and sold it to YY person. If you don't have the full details they should still be able to get the info from askMID (or more likely their database!).
It's going to be a stressfull few weeks whilst this is ironed out but hold faith, it worked out in my situation so hopefully will with yours.
Googling suggests you're removed as the RK when it's sold to traders, but it's possible the database design won't allow a car to have no RK. I suspect it's more like a flag as being in trade, then the RK is updated once it's sold on.
QuattroDave said:
The DVLA database has to have a name next to the owner of a car (whether that be a legal entity or individual) so in some cases you can still have your name next to a car you don't own.
In my case it was a car I sold to some young chaps from Birmingham. Whilst doing all the paperwork on the sale (after a long and protracted negotiation on price despite agreeing a price before hand...) the cousin of the new owner took the V5 and transferred ownership there and then. Got the cash, passed over keys and a few days later I got the paper slip from DVLA saying I'm no longer the registered keeper. All good.
Just under 2 years later I start receiving NIPs (15 and counting). After lots of emails between Birmingham police and DVLA it turns out these guys had marked the car for scrap (a car they bought for £7k!) and a quirk of the DVLA database is it reverts the issue of NIPs etc to the last registered keeper in the event that it's marked as scrapped, exported etc.
Luckily I still had the full name, email address and phone number of the person who bought it from me so the police were able to find the owner from that.
My advice is to email the DVLA and ask them to confirm the date of transfer/sale. If they did transfer it by any means then this will show up on their database and you can request confirmation of the date of transfer. Bear in mind though it takes two weeks to respond to the email!! If the buyer is still running it under your daughters name then get in touch with the police and state that you sold the car on xx date and sold it to YY person. If you don't have the full details they should still be able to get the info from askMID (or more likely their database!).
It's going to be a stressfull few weeks whilst this is ironed out but hold faith, it worked out in my situation so hopefully will with yours.
That's all well and good but loads of if it wrong. it's not stressful. Just do as the daughter has done and respond all done.In my case it was a car I sold to some young chaps from Birmingham. Whilst doing all the paperwork on the sale (after a long and protracted negotiation on price despite agreeing a price before hand...) the cousin of the new owner took the V5 and transferred ownership there and then. Got the cash, passed over keys and a few days later I got the paper slip from DVLA saying I'm no longer the registered keeper. All good.
Just under 2 years later I start receiving NIPs (15 and counting). After lots of emails between Birmingham police and DVLA it turns out these guys had marked the car for scrap (a car they bought for £7k!) and a quirk of the DVLA database is it reverts the issue of NIPs etc to the last registered keeper in the event that it's marked as scrapped, exported etc.
Luckily I still had the full name, email address and phone number of the person who bought it from me so the police were able to find the owner from that.
My advice is to email the DVLA and ask them to confirm the date of transfer/sale. If they did transfer it by any means then this will show up on their database and you can request confirmation of the date of transfer. Bear in mind though it takes two weeks to respond to the email!! If the buyer is still running it under your daughters name then get in touch with the police and state that you sold the car on xx date and sold it to YY person. If you don't have the full details they should still be able to get the info from askMID (or more likely their database!).
It's going to be a stressfull few weeks whilst this is ironed out but hold faith, it worked out in my situation so hopefully will with yours.
And dvla don't keep a register of owners. Just people who are registered as keepers.
48k said:
QuattroDave said:
young chaps from Birmingham
QuattroDave said:
long and protracted negotiation on price despite agreeing a price before hand
QuattroDave said:
cousin of the new owner took the V5
QuattroDave said:
cash
Tell us the stereotype without telling us the stereotype 
.BertBert said:
QuattroDave said:
The DVLA database has to have a name next to the owner of a car (whether that be a legal entity or individual) so in some cases you can still have your name next to a car you don't own.
In my case it was a car I sold to some young chaps from Birmingham. Whilst doing all the paperwork on the sale (after a long and protracted negotiation on price despite agreeing a price before hand...) the cousin of the new owner took the V5 and transferred ownership there and then. Got the cash, passed over keys and a few days later I got the paper slip from DVLA saying I'm no longer the registered keeper. All good.
Just under 2 years later I start receiving NIPs (15 and counting). After lots of emails between Birmingham police and DVLA it turns out these guys had marked the car for scrap (a car they bought for £7k!) and a quirk of the DVLA database is it reverts the issue of NIPs etc to the last registered keeper in the event that it's marked as scrapped, exported etc.
Luckily I still had the full name, email address and phone number of the person who bought it from me so the police were able to find the owner from that.
My advice is to email the DVLA and ask them to confirm the date of transfer/sale. If they did transfer it by any means then this will show up on their database and you can request confirmation of the date of transfer. Bear in mind though it takes two weeks to respond to the email!! If the buyer is still running it under your daughters name then get in touch with the police and state that you sold the car on xx date and sold it to YY person. If you don't have the full details they should still be able to get the info from askMID (or more likely their database!).
It's going to be a stressfull few weeks whilst this is ironed out but hold faith, it worked out in my situation so hopefully will with yours.
That's all well and good but loads of if it wrong. it's not stressful. Just do as the daughter has done and respond all done.In my case it was a car I sold to some young chaps from Birmingham. Whilst doing all the paperwork on the sale (after a long and protracted negotiation on price despite agreeing a price before hand...) the cousin of the new owner took the V5 and transferred ownership there and then. Got the cash, passed over keys and a few days later I got the paper slip from DVLA saying I'm no longer the registered keeper. All good.
Just under 2 years later I start receiving NIPs (15 and counting). After lots of emails between Birmingham police and DVLA it turns out these guys had marked the car for scrap (a car they bought for £7k!) and a quirk of the DVLA database is it reverts the issue of NIPs etc to the last registered keeper in the event that it's marked as scrapped, exported etc.
Luckily I still had the full name, email address and phone number of the person who bought it from me so the police were able to find the owner from that.
My advice is to email the DVLA and ask them to confirm the date of transfer/sale. If they did transfer it by any means then this will show up on their database and you can request confirmation of the date of transfer. Bear in mind though it takes two weeks to respond to the email!! If the buyer is still running it under your daughters name then get in touch with the police and state that you sold the car on xx date and sold it to YY person. If you don't have the full details they should still be able to get the info from askMID (or more likely their database!).
It's going to be a stressfull few weeks whilst this is ironed out but hold faith, it worked out in my situation so hopefully will with yours.
And dvla don't keep a register of owners. Just people who are registered as keepers.
It might not be stressful to yourself but you can't say it won't be stressful on the OPs daughter.
It certainly was stressful with mine as the online portal where I could respond only allowed me to stipulate a date up to six months before the alleged offence date as a date of sale or transfer and my initial completion of the NIP was rejrected as I didn't have the full address of the person I sold the car to nearly two years prior.
Both the cars we've sold in the past three years, I got emails from Swansea confirming I was not longer the keeper.
Later I got a bit of paper confirming the same.
I think that was separate from the cheque-like refund of the tax.
The email has a reference number for the transaction.
I tend to fling emails like that into a folder called 'stuff I need to keep'.
The tax refund voucher has a section you can keep too.
Later I got a bit of paper confirming the same.
I think that was separate from the cheque-like refund of the tax.
The email has a reference number for the transaction.
I tend to fling emails like that into a folder called 'stuff I need to keep'.
The tax refund voucher has a section you can keep too.
QuattroDave said:
You know full well I meant registered keeper, not owner, but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out. Whilst we're at it your first sentence makes no sense.
It might not be stressful to yourself but you can't say it won't be stressful on the OPs daughter.
It certainly was stressful with mine as the online portal where I could respond only allowed me to stipulate a date up to six months before the alleged offence date as a date of sale or transfer and my initial completion of the NIP was rejrected as I didn't have the full address of the person I sold the car to nearly two years prior.
You seem to forget that the topic under debate is what is happening to the OP's daughter, not what happened to you. Also if I'm at fault for trying to get to the facts, why is that my error, not yours for getting things wrong. It might not be stressful to yourself but you can't say it won't be stressful on the OPs daughter.
It certainly was stressful with mine as the online portal where I could respond only allowed me to stipulate a date up to six months before the alleged offence date as a date of sale or transfer and my initial completion of the NIP was rejrected as I didn't have the full address of the person I sold the car to nearly two years prior.
The simple answer is that the OP's daughter has said not me and that is the end of it. Why make oit more complex?
I can only explain the recent sale of my Porsche to a trader to show how it should work.
They transferred it to trade online and I got an immediate email confirming I was no longer the owner.
Three days later I got a slip of paper in the post, confirming the same.
I know that is not how it went for your daughter, but it’s an example for others who read this of what should happen.
They transferred it to trade online and I got an immediate email confirming I was no longer the owner.
Three days later I got a slip of paper in the post, confirming the same.
I know that is not how it went for your daughter, but it’s an example for others who read this of what should happen.
Hol said:
I can only explain the recent sale of my Porsche to a trader to show how it should work.
They transferred it to trade online and I got an immediate email confirming I was no longer the owner.
Three days later I got a slip of paper in the post, confirming the same.
I know that is not how it went for your daughter, but it’s an example for others who read this of what should happen.
Is the email address a required field? Neither of us seem to have an email, however I routinely clear out any clutter.They transferred it to trade online and I got an immediate email confirming I was no longer the owner.
Three days later I got a slip of paper in the post, confirming the same.
I know that is not how it went for your daughter, but it’s an example for others who read this of what should happen.
As far as we remember we got the posted slip. She says she asked me if she needed to do anything more with it. I remember a conversation like that.
Now with her now getting a NIP we're both doubting our recollection.
98elise said:
Hol said:
I can only explain the recent sale of my Porsche to a trader to show how it should work.
They transferred it to trade online and I got an immediate email confirming I was no longer the owner.
Three days later I got a slip of paper in the post, confirming the same.
I know that is not how it went for your daughter, but it’s an example for others who read this of what should happen.
Is the email address a required field? Neither of us seem to have an email, however I routinely clear out any clutter.They transferred it to trade online and I got an immediate email confirming I was no longer the owner.
Three days later I got a slip of paper in the post, confirming the same.
I know that is not how it went for your daughter, but it’s an example for others who read this of what should happen.
As far as we remember we got the posted slip. She says she asked me if she needed to do anything more with it. I remember a conversation like that.
Now with her now getting a NIP we're both doubting our recollection.
What is odd is that the DVLA absolutely do have the contact details that were put in for the trader when you transfer a car to the trade, because I have a trade registered car I forgot about that ran out of tax the other week and they wrote me a letter and fined me!
I suspect they don't use those details for NIPs because of all the driveway traders who put in bulls
t details when they put a car to the trade, and also all the millions of cars that are sold to WBAC etc.
I suspect they don't use those details for NIPs because of all the driveway traders who put in bulls
t details when they put a car to the trade, and also all the millions of cars that are sold to WBAC etc.ConnectionError said:
98elise said:
Hol said:
I can only explain the recent sale of my Porsche to a trader to show how it should work.
They transferred it to trade online and I got an immediate email confirming I was no longer the owner.
Three days later I got a slip of paper in the post, confirming the same.
I know that is not how it went for your daughter, but it’s an example for others who read this of what should happen.
Is the email address a required field? Neither of us seem to have an email, however I routinely clear out any clutter.They transferred it to trade online and I got an immediate email confirming I was no longer the owner.
Three days later I got a slip of paper in the post, confirming the same.
I know that is not how it went for your daughter, but it’s an example for others who read this of what should happen.
As far as we remember we got the posted slip. She says she asked me if she needed to do anything more with it. I remember a conversation like that.
Now with her now getting a NIP we're both doubting our recollection.
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