Who do we pursue?
Discussion
Good evening all, I’m looking for some guidance on who to pursue over a rejected Mini.
This is linked to my other thread regarding TMO which suggests that going down that route is just a recipe for more frustration and delay.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
In simple terms, we bought a brand new Mini, a gorgeous Cooper S Exclusive Convertible in lovely dark metallic blue with the intention of it being a keeper as it’s the last manual gearbox cars and Mrs Surveyor has a real dislike of the auto gearboxes which all new Minis have.
Roll on a few months and we find that the car is a dog, riddled with rattles which the supplying dealer made worse on the multiple times it was in, they damaged the dashboard when the interior was out and eventually we agreed in October 24 that we were rejecting it.
The Mini dealership from where we bought the car and who accepted the rejection changed franchise a month later, and here lies the problem.
The new franchise has said we need to deal with the original supplying franchise who sold us the car and who still has another Mini dealership some 100 miles away, however when we spoke to them they say that the new franchise has taken over all the trade and liabilities so we need to deal with them.
Mini UK have been ineffective, so I’m asking you guys who do we pursue… the franchise who sold us the Mini, or the franchise who have taken over that dealership?
This is linked to my other thread regarding TMO which suggests that going down that route is just a recipe for more frustration and delay.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
In simple terms, we bought a brand new Mini, a gorgeous Cooper S Exclusive Convertible in lovely dark metallic blue with the intention of it being a keeper as it’s the last manual gearbox cars and Mrs Surveyor has a real dislike of the auto gearboxes which all new Minis have.
Roll on a few months and we find that the car is a dog, riddled with rattles which the supplying dealer made worse on the multiple times it was in, they damaged the dashboard when the interior was out and eventually we agreed in October 24 that we were rejecting it.
The Mini dealership from where we bought the car and who accepted the rejection changed franchise a month later, and here lies the problem.
The new franchise has said we need to deal with the original supplying franchise who sold us the car and who still has another Mini dealership some 100 miles away, however when we spoke to them they say that the new franchise has taken over all the trade and liabilities so we need to deal with them.
Mini UK have been ineffective, so I’m asking you guys who do we pursue… the franchise who sold us the Mini, or the franchise who have taken over that dealership?
I imagine the answer will depend on the detail in the contract between the two dealerships for the takeover.
Of course you will have no access to this private transaction so you will have to pick the most likely candidate when you sue them and if they feel they have a case to pass the liability on they will try to do that.
As long as you have a clear liability admission then someone will probably pay, let them have the argument as to who.
Of course you will have no access to this private transaction so you will have to pick the most likely candidate when you sue them and if they feel they have a case to pass the liability on they will try to do that.
As long as you have a clear liability admission then someone will probably pay, let them have the argument as to who.
Unlikely to ever get any resolution to this. Neither party will want to deal with it and take the loss so you'll be bounced back and forth forever, with each side saying it's got absolutely nothing to do them, you need to speak to the other party. Nobody will care that the other party has already said it's nothing to do with them either, you just need to speak to them again, sorry can't help you further. Rinse and repeat.
mr rusty said:
It's easy - you sue the entity you have the contract with. If they sold the local franchise, that's irrelevant. You don't have a contract with the successors.
He doesn't, but the supplying (original) dealer may have a contract with the new dealer under which the new dealer took over all liabilities on previous contracts.I agree with Mr Rusty. You claim from the entity you contracted with.
The sales invoice should identify that you’ve bought a car from “Cherry Mini (Cobham) limited co no 123”
The number of the company is unique- but the names can change. Often the name doesn’t change, but it is something to be aware of. Companies House has a neat table that shows the changes of names by date.
If the original owners of co no 123 have sold it to someone new, it’s doesn’t matter, your claim is still against co no 123.
If behind the scenes there is a contract between the original owners and the new owners of co 123 that divides up liabilities then that is a matter for them, not you.
Co no 123 cannot transfer the burden of its obligations to you without your consent.
So … find out who you contracted with, and then where they are trading from now. My guess is that the company you contracted with has been sold - but they will still be running from that dealer site.
The sales invoice should identify that you’ve bought a car from “Cherry Mini (Cobham) limited co no 123”
The number of the company is unique- but the names can change. Often the name doesn’t change, but it is something to be aware of. Companies House has a neat table that shows the changes of names by date.
If the original owners of co no 123 have sold it to someone new, it’s doesn’t matter, your claim is still against co no 123.
If behind the scenes there is a contract between the original owners and the new owners of co 123 that divides up liabilities then that is a matter for them, not you.
Co no 123 cannot transfer the burden of its obligations to you without your consent.
So … find out who you contracted with, and then where they are trading from now. My guess is that the company you contracted with has been sold - but they will still be running from that dealer site.
Thanks for all the comments, all very helpful.
I need to dig into the original sales paperwork to see who is the umbrella entity as the actual entity who we bought the car off doesn’t exist anymore.
Struggling a little to avoid any naming & shaming but XXX Mini Timeside who we bought the Mini off are now YYY Mini Timeside. YYY Mini Timeside are directing us back to XXX Mini Leads who are their nearest Mini branch. Clearly we don’t have access to the details of the agreement between the two franchisees so we are stuck.
Regarding our preferred outcome, we were looking for a straight swap for an equivalent replacement car, but Mini don’t make that car anymore and there are no low-mileage manual cars available. We are now looking to hand the car back, get our deposit back and recover some costs and finance payments for all the time after they agreed our rejection.
I need to dig into the original sales paperwork to see who is the umbrella entity as the actual entity who we bought the car off doesn’t exist anymore.
Struggling a little to avoid any naming & shaming but XXX Mini Timeside who we bought the Mini off are now YYY Mini Timeside. YYY Mini Timeside are directing us back to XXX Mini Leads who are their nearest Mini branch. Clearly we don’t have access to the details of the agreement between the two franchisees so we are stuck.
Regarding our preferred outcome, we were looking for a straight swap for an equivalent replacement car, but Mini don’t make that car anymore and there are no low-mileage manual cars available. We are now looking to hand the car back, get our deposit back and recover some costs and finance payments for all the time after they agreed our rejection.
paul_c123 said:
LandieMark said:
In which case, you join in both dealers as defendants in any action and let them prove which one isn't liable.
Is there a danger that one or both could counterclaim for damages, time in court etc, and that you'd need to pay out to at least one of them?The Surveyor said:
Thanks for all the comments, all very helpful.
I need to dig into the original sales paperwork to see who is the umbrella entity as the actual entity who we bought the car off doesn’t exist anymore.
Struggling a little to avoid any naming & shaming but XXX Mini Timeside who we bought the Mini off are now YYY Mini Timeside. YYY Mini Timeside are directing us back to XXX Mini Leads who are their nearest Mini branch. Clearly we don’t have access to the details of the agreement between the two franchisees so we are stuck.
Regarding our preferred outcome, we were looking for a straight swap for an equivalent replacement car, but Mini don’t make that car anymore and there are no low-mileage manual cars available. We are now looking to hand the car back, get our deposit back and recover some costs and finance payments for all the time after they agreed our rejection.
OP, until you’ve identified the name and number of the co you contracted with you shouldn’t assume too much. When you get it, have a look at companies house on the web. I need to dig into the original sales paperwork to see who is the umbrella entity as the actual entity who we bought the car off doesn’t exist anymore.
Struggling a little to avoid any naming & shaming but XXX Mini Timeside who we bought the Mini off are now YYY Mini Timeside. YYY Mini Timeside are directing us back to XXX Mini Leads who are their nearest Mini branch. Clearly we don’t have access to the details of the agreement between the two franchisees so we are stuck.
Regarding our preferred outcome, we were looking for a straight swap for an equivalent replacement car, but Mini don’t make that car anymore and there are no low-mileage manual cars available. We are now looking to hand the car back, get our deposit back and recover some costs and finance payments for all the time after they agreed our rejection.
The Surveyor said:
We are now looking to hand the car back, get our deposit back and recover some costs and finance payments for all the time after they agreed our rejection.
I know your other thread says you've been fobbed off by the finance company, but in the circumstances they seem worth some more focus.Sheepshanks said:
The Surveyor said:
We are now looking to hand the car back, get our deposit back and recover some costs and finance payments for all the time after they agreed our rejection.
I know your other thread says you've been fobbed off by the finance company, but in the circumstances they seem worth some more focus.The Surveyor said:
Struggling a little to avoid any naming & shaming but XXX Mini Timeside who we bought the Mini off are now YYY Mini Timeside. YYY Mini Timeside are directing us back to XXX Mini Leads who are their nearest Mini branch. Clearly we don’t have access to the details of the agreement between the two franchisees so we are stuck.
Those sound like trading names, not the legal entity name. The invoice is required to have a legal entity name on it. If you bought on finance then simply go to the finance company instead, it is their problem.The Surveyor said:
Thanks for all the comments, all very helpful.
I need to dig into the original sales paperwork to see who is the umbrella entity as the actual entity who we bought the car off doesn’t exist anymore.
Struggling a little to avoid any naming & shaming but XXX Mini Timeside who we bought the Mini off are now YYY Mini Timeside. YYY Mini Timeside are directing us back to XXX Mini Leads who are their nearest Mini branch. Clearly we don’t have access to the details of the agreement between the two franchisees so we are stuck.
Regarding our preferred outcome, we were looking for a straight swap for an equivalent replacement car, but Mini don’t make that car anymore and there are no low-mileage manual cars available. We are now looking to hand the car back, get our deposit back and recover some costs and finance payments for all the time after they agreed our rejection.
If I have interpreted your post correctly you bought your car from a dealership that at the time was part of Stratstone which is part of Lithia UK (previously known as Pendragon).I need to dig into the original sales paperwork to see who is the umbrella entity as the actual entity who we bought the car off doesn’t exist anymore.
Struggling a little to avoid any naming & shaming but XXX Mini Timeside who we bought the Mini off are now YYY Mini Timeside. YYY Mini Timeside are directing us back to XXX Mini Leads who are their nearest Mini branch. Clearly we don’t have access to the details of the agreement between the two franchisees so we are stuck.
Regarding our preferred outcome, we were looking for a straight swap for an equivalent replacement car, but Mini don’t make that car anymore and there are no low-mileage manual cars available. We are now looking to hand the car back, get our deposit back and recover some costs and finance payments for all the time after they agreed our rejection.
It may be worth calling Lithia UK on 01623 725200 and politely and patiently asking for their help in advising how to resolve the catch-22 situation you are currently stuck in.
phil squares said:
Just a suggestion. Why not get Mini UK involved? Here is a place to start....https://www.mini.co.uk/en_GB/home/complaints-procedure/customer-complaints-procedure.html
Thanks for the pointer, but we have already done that, gone through the whole process and when they eventually replied, we were directed back to the dealerships. MustangGT said:
Those sound like trading names, not the legal entity name. The invoice is required to have a legal entity name on it. If you bought on finance then simply go to the finance company instead, it is their problem.
Thanks, after checking with Companies House you're correct and they are trading names. I've now got the address for the main company.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff