Britain's shrinking families: An economic timebomb

[s1962a]

https://news.sky.com/story/britains-shrinking-fami...

The latest figures show the average number of children born to a woman in England and Wales over her lifetime dropped to 1.44 in 2023, the lowest level since records began in 1938, according to the Office for National Statistics.

Fertility rates for comparison (per woman)

England 1.44
Scotland 1.3
Finland 1.32
Norway 1.41
Netherlands 1.49
Denmark 1.55
Sweden 1.52

Edited by s1962a on Thursday 27th February 09:16

[Slow.Patrol]

A declining birth rate is good for the climate surely?

Less people consume less product.

Personally I think the western world needs to stop chasing growth, which in reality is a Ponzi scheme.

Japan had twice as many deaths as births last year.

We are constantly fed the lie that old people are a drain on the economy, however the figures show that the number of people claiming state pension is consistent. Unfortunately the government has not published any figures recently but here is a screenshot of the graph before they were pulled


Compare that to PIP and disability benefits

[captain_cynic]

Erm... Kids are expensive. What do people expect to happen.

If we're to avoid this "ticking time bomb" then we need a serious rethink about an economy based on constant and infinite growth.

But that won't happen.

[Master Of Puppets]

The whole planet would benefit from less humans.

[markbigears]

Just import them by the boat load

[Portofino]

With the prevalence of some cultures and the under class this trend could well be reversed in the next decade.

[Hereward]

I read somewhere that the world's population has doubled since 1975? I think we need a reversal.

[Xenoous]

[The Ferret]

captain_cynic said:

Erm... Kids are expensive. What do people expect to happen.

If we're to avoid this "ticking time bomb" then we need a serious rethink about an economy based on constant and infinite growth.

But that won't happen.

Or, you encourage growth by lowering taxes. The knock on effect being people have more money to spend = less inclined to put off having kids for financial reasons.

Instead we seem happy for the birth rate to decline, and encourage immigrants in to make up the population growth.

[Mammasaid]

Master Of Puppets said:

The whole planet would benefit from less humans.

[Slow.Patrol]

Found the up to date figures





Note the graph for pensions is from 2002 and disability benefits is 2009

The increases in state pension age have had an effect in reducing the number if claimants and the rise to 67 takes effect next year.

[Drumroll]

The Ferret said:

Instead we seem happy for the birth rate to decline, and encourage immigrants in to make up the population growth.

Is that a bad thing?

[aeropilot]

Hereward said:

I read somewhere that the world's population has doubled since 1975? I think we need a reversal.

Doubled since the early 1960's, basically doubled in my lifetime, which is staggering, that it took all of human history to get to just over 4 billion by the early 60's and only just over another half century to double that figure, and people still scratch their heads wondering why the planet has so many problems......

Its not really rocket science to make the connection.

[captain_cynic]

Drumroll said:

The Ferret said:

Instead we seem happy for the birth rate to decline, and encourage immigrants in to make up the population growth.

Is that a bad thing?

He's using the "Trussanomic" argument that lower taxes will produce this magic "growth" thing without realising it won't solve the problem of kids being expensive... Or the problem of an aging population... Or the problem of overpopulation.

But he did prove my point that no one is willing to admit that the idea of infinite growth is flawed.

[Richard-390a0]

Portofino said:

With the prevalence of some cultures and the under class this trend could well be reversed in the next decade.

Yep the 'underclass' near me are certainly knocking out more than 1.4 kids ffs!

[Slow.Patrol]

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0021tt7

[Spare tyre]

markbigears said:

Just import them by the boat load

This is the bit I can’t get my head round

Lots of young men coming, are they here to boff the local women

Also, lots of my friends can’t afford to move out, start a family and then have kids so they don’t.

I wonder if giving subsidies to young WORKING folk who contribute is a better idea

[P-Jay]

Spare tyre said:

markbigears said:

Just import them by the boat load

This is the bit I can’t get my head round

Lots of young men coming, are they here to boff the local women

Also, lots of my friends can’t afford to move out, start a family and then have kids so they don’t.

I wonder if giving subsidies to young WORKING folk who contribute is a better idea

There's a story behind this...

[Countdown]

The Ferret said:

Instead we seem happy for the birth rate to decline, and encourage immigrants in to make up the population growth.

Yes, if there's one thing the media and the internet is full of, it's people encouraging more immigration. That's probably why nearly every Political Party is campaigning on ways of making immigration easier.

[P-Jay]

Yeah it'll be a problem.

With an aging and shrinking population the proportion of economically active people falls.

With the current economy of the UK, that's not the big issue, with got a national debt close to GDP, inflation that's just about manageable, too few homes in the right places and they're over-valued. We're not unique in that, most developed Nations are facing a variation of the same problem.

Japan is facing issues with it now, without intervention by 2100 their native population will start to really fall. The young people there will be faced with caring for a lot more older people than they have younger people. They're already suffering because of poor work / life balance just trying to get ahead. 10% of Japanese people are virgins and celibate at 30 and it's a growing trend.

Of course, the World is arguably over-populated and the rate that it's rising is scary, maybe Humans have found a sort of natural population control and we might yet find a symbiotic balance with the planet yet. It would be nice to have say a 5bn global population without some kind of mass plague or the like. The problem would be of course as soon as life get comfortable Human's start reproducing en mass.