Are ICE servicing costs increasing due to EVs?
Discussion
Partly due to the astonishing Dacia service bill thread, I wonder if main dealer servicing operations are beginning to suffer financially from being obliged to service the EVs they sell, and are consequently trying to load prices and increase work elsewhere?
Clearly EVs are going to require considerably less in the way of hands-on servicing and replacement parts. Apart from the obvious, there are also things like regeneration braking, which will reduce wear on relatively fragile components (brakes and suspension) by transferring forces back up the (robust) drivetrain.
Dealers may to a certain extent get away with charging what the market currently expects (for an ICE), but I imagine many EV owners are savvy enough to expect their premium on servicing and the pressure will only increase as investigative journalists start to get on board.
The overheads involved in running a posh main dealership won't have changed, but EV owners won't be impressed with the idea that their car is occupying space, up on a ramp, being driven in and out etc. - they will still not expect to pay £350 for a screen wash top-up. At the same time the dealership will still have to go through a limited inspection regime, just in case there is a loose brake hose or whatever.
So - when you take your ICE or hybrid in for service and get offered a big list of expensive and pointless extras, and/or that service itself suddenly becomes ridiculously expensive, is this just a symptom of the increasing number of EVs that dealership has on its books?
Clearly EVs are going to require considerably less in the way of hands-on servicing and replacement parts. Apart from the obvious, there are also things like regeneration braking, which will reduce wear on relatively fragile components (brakes and suspension) by transferring forces back up the (robust) drivetrain.
Dealers may to a certain extent get away with charging what the market currently expects (for an ICE), but I imagine many EV owners are savvy enough to expect their premium on servicing and the pressure will only increase as investigative journalists start to get on board.
The overheads involved in running a posh main dealership won't have changed, but EV owners won't be impressed with the idea that their car is occupying space, up on a ramp, being driven in and out etc. - they will still not expect to pay £350 for a screen wash top-up. At the same time the dealership will still have to go through a limited inspection regime, just in case there is a loose brake hose or whatever.
So - when you take your ICE or hybrid in for service and get offered a big list of expensive and pointless extras, and/or that service itself suddenly becomes ridiculously expensive, is this just a symptom of the increasing number of EVs that dealership has on its books?
I don't think so. Main dealer servicing has always been expensive, and the Dacia thread is a case in point where they quote "book" for many jobs that is eyewateringly expensive versus an independant.
More to the point, unless traditional brands catch up with the Chinese and other EV brands, then lost servicing revenue will be the least of their worries
More to the point, unless traditional brands catch up with the Chinese and other EV brands, then lost servicing revenue will be the least of their worries
Almost certainly yes. Servicing is a reliable way of making money with much, much higher margins than selling cars. Vertu quoted 72% margins on their last financial statement I remember reading. Carmakers are happy to have them making money this way amid margin-slashing discounting of the new stuff and that's why we see prices going up, because currently its almost the only reliable earner.
Also a sweet deal for the carmaker if the dealer can identify expensive parts that need changing.
EVs are the big unknown. Dealers are going to carry on charging £300 a pop for annual 'battery coolant changes' or somesuch nonsense but Tesla doesn't do this and I think consumers are going to cotton on here and wonder what the hell they are paying for.
Alex_225 said:
I haven't used a main dealer for over a decade so couldn't comment on that. But local garages and specialists I have used, I can't say I've noticed an increase in servicing costs. I mean a service now is more expensive than it was 10 years ago but not more than I'd have expected.
I probably should have specified main dealer costs in the title. I think you are right about smaller operations - wife’s 17 year old Toyota is no more expensive to have serviced now in the garage up the road than it ever was. These places will currently see EVs much less than ICEs, but when there are more elderly EVs around they will just take them in, do the appropriate work and charge accordingly. Main dealers are different in that people use them for the first five years for warranty and resale reasons. People will (rightly) expect the same main dealer experience but (also rightly) expect considerably less work will be done and the price will be lower accordingly. End result, same throughput and overheads, less income.
Watched a video on YT the other day about a Tesla Model 3 used as a Taxi in Leeds for 4 years and 216,000 miles,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byZcmX8Cgwk
Pretty impressive to be fair, little bit of cosmetic repair, couple of suspension bushes required and maybe some brake pads/disks, original motors and battery, which still had 88% capacity. They suspected it had some other suspension components replaced but they are very conventional, pretty cheap and easy to do. Interior seemed to have held up a lot better than I anticipated for one used as a taxi.
I know the batteries and motors are the big ticket items if they fail but, 216k and still charging to 88% percent capacity is good, much lower mileage ones tend to go to that after a couple of years anyway, and companies are springing up to recondition and repair Tesla packs, but this has gone longer than the average lifespan of a car in the UK without issue based on the evidence.
Plus the aftermarket is catering for brake and suspensions parts now, front disk £50, front pads £50 a set, aforementioned suspension arm £70, these are simple components that can be easily produced.
So, yeah, can see why dealers might make hay whist the sun shines on ICE as there wont be much to do on EV's by the looks of it, I do think once the masses realise that all those Model 3's out there arent as scary as they think, they will migrate down into more private hands, when you see vape vents and tints, on them you know thats happened.
I think the "Oh no its nearly dead at 100k" thing is changing, but stuff like this may make it even more a thing of the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byZcmX8Cgwk
Pretty impressive to be fair, little bit of cosmetic repair, couple of suspension bushes required and maybe some brake pads/disks, original motors and battery, which still had 88% capacity. They suspected it had some other suspension components replaced but they are very conventional, pretty cheap and easy to do. Interior seemed to have held up a lot better than I anticipated for one used as a taxi.
I know the batteries and motors are the big ticket items if they fail but, 216k and still charging to 88% percent capacity is good, much lower mileage ones tend to go to that after a couple of years anyway, and companies are springing up to recondition and repair Tesla packs, but this has gone longer than the average lifespan of a car in the UK without issue based on the evidence.
Plus the aftermarket is catering for brake and suspensions parts now, front disk £50, front pads £50 a set, aforementioned suspension arm £70, these are simple components that can be easily produced.
So, yeah, can see why dealers might make hay whist the sun shines on ICE as there wont be much to do on EV's by the looks of it, I do think once the masses realise that all those Model 3's out there arent as scary as they think, they will migrate down into more private hands, when you see vape vents and tints, on them you know thats happened.
I think the "Oh no its nearly dead at 100k" thing is changing, but stuff like this may make it even more a thing of the past.
No. Main dealers will have needed to invest in EV tech, equipment training for techs etc, so will want to recoup some of that.
The biggest cost increase will be actually getting those mechanics in though the door, higher wages, higher NI, higher energy bills, cost of oil going up, other staff wanting pay rises etc.
It’s not due to EVs it’s everything else.
The biggest cost increase will be actually getting those mechanics in though the door, higher wages, higher NI, higher energy bills, cost of oil going up, other staff wanting pay rises etc.
It’s not due to EVs it’s everything else.
J4CKO said:
I know the batteries and motors are the big ticket items if they fail but, 216k and still charging to 88% percent capacity is good,
I watched that video the other day too, good that it is being broadcasted as battery health is still an elephant in the room to the masses. I've got a used 3 year old Model 3 with 46k on it and using the "tessie" app i can see the battery is at 95% health and it projects it will be at 80% at 386,000 miles. There is no way the bettary started at 100% also and additionally the battery degration curve isn't a straightline to zero but a steady drop by c10% in the first few years and then flattens out. I still get school parents sucking their teeth at battery replacement costs, yet mine still has 5 years of warrranty and they themselves are driving around in decade old germanic SUVs with 5 figure repair bills around the corner.
Once people get used to the technology, kids for example already are with their use of tablets and understanding of battery % in relation to their electronics, then EVs will continue to shine. I drove mine 600 miles in one day on Wednesday to a Funeral and it was no trouble at all and charging wasn't an inconvience as I needed to stop any way as it was 12 hours of driving.
Terminator X said:
Dealer servicing needn't be expensive. The wife had a RSQ3 and it cost us £16 a month for 3 years.
TX.
At least double that now with a large upfront cost as well.TX.
https://customer.vwfs.co.uk/service-plans/audi.htm...
The cheapest is about £2k for three years, or about £55 a month.
Why do all the EVs (on that link above) need a brake fluid change EVERY service?
Also, £400+ for an inspection and pollen filter (and brake fluid as above)
Hang on, is that upfront cost AS WELL AS the monthlies? If so I would hope/assume it;s one or the other!
Also, £400+ for an inspection and pollen filter (and brake fluid as above)
Hang on, is that upfront cost AS WELL AS the monthlies? If so
I would hope/assume it;s one or the other!Edited by Dracoro on Friday 28th February 11:28
Dracoro said:
Why do all the EVs (on that link above) need a brake fluid change EVERY service?
Also, £400+ for an inspection and pollen filter (and brake fluid as above)
Hang on, is that upfront cost AS WELL AS the monthlies? If so I would hope/assume it;s one or the other!
Ahhh you may be right there. I read that as upfront as well as which would be mental Also, £400+ for an inspection and pollen filter (and brake fluid as above)
Hang on, is that upfront cost AS WELL AS the monthlies? If so
I would hope/assume it;s one or the other!Edited by Dracoro on Friday 28th February 11:28
Tindersticks said:
At least double that now with a large upfront cost as well.
https://customer.vwfs.co.uk/service-plans/audi.htm...
The cheapest is about £2k for three years, or about £55 a month.
No it isn't -the cheapest ( ie without extended warranty etal ) is just under £800 ie £400 annual cost.https://customer.vwfs.co.uk/service-plans/audi.htm...
The cheapest is about £2k for three years, or about £55 a month.
You also don't add the upfront cost to the monthly - its either or.
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