Modern cars, hybrids and tiny petrol engines.

[richard at home]

My 2009 Ford Focus 1.6 TDCI is close to 200k miles and is probably going to need to be replaced soon.

Looking around at the latest breed of cars I see a lot are 1.0l petrol motors. Lots of hybrids and then there's the e-power nissan which appears to be an all electric drivetrain wth a petrol driven generator.

I feel that these tiny engines can't really be that good compared to old school diesels but I've never owned or driven one. Then there's the wet belt fiasco!

Hybrids seem to just be a way of getting around the current legislation and just make the car even more complex with little real benefit.

I have a friend who bought a plug in hybrid, but they've never plugged it in! Seems mad to me.

My old Focus still drives fine, averages 56-59 mpg and will do 68mpg on a motorway run. In the 190,000 miles I've driven it, the only fault I had was a dead ECU. It's still on the same clutch!

So, what's the score with these tiny capacity engines, newfangled hybrids etc. I really like the look of the new Nissan Qashqai and the Peugeot 3008, but never driven either.

Just looking for a Focus replacement, something a year old with under 10k on the clock that will last!

[Funky Squirrel]

Electric drive should be more reliable than an engine. It also helps a smaller engine make up for the lack torque. Economy has plateaued with the extra mass though.

[anonymous-user]

richard at home said:

I have a friend who bought a plug in hybrid, but they've never plugged it in! Seems mad to me.

My wife's PHEV just works as a self charging hybrid if the battery isn't charged, it's still very efficient.

[LightweightLouisDanvers]

I'd say they will be great for the first owner, while they are in warranty, after that the manufacturer won't give a fk.

Overly complicated technology with high demands place on small capacity engines built down to a price. What could possibly go wrong?

My neighbours have a 1 year old self charging hybrid 2.5 petrol Rav4. It's already been in the garage because it 'failed to proceed' on either battery or petrol power and it does poor mpg in combined use. The future tech is great!

[Lil_Red_GTO]

richard at home said:

In the 190,000 miles I've driven it, the only fault I had was a dead ECU.

Really?! That's absolutely incredible. If what you say is true, I'd be looking for another Focus, same model, just with fewer miles on it. You will be VERY lucky to get that level of reliability with anything else.

[richard at home]

Chris Peacock said:

richard at home said:

I have a friend who bought a plug in hybrid, but they've never plugged it in! Seems mad to me.

My wife's PHEV just works as a self charging hybrid if the battery isn't charged, it's still very efficient.

I always assumed plug in hybrids where just hybrids that you can also plug in to charge to save fuel but when I did some digging online I found that many only have regen brake charging and very little from the engine, which seems dumb to me.

Series hybrid (all electric drivetrain and IC generator) seems like a good idea, but the Nissan e-power has a tiny battery and none of the performance of a battery only EV.

I'd really like to try a Tesla but need a hatchback and might want to tow from time to time. Charging at home would be no problem, but not sure if there are any cost benefits over diesel these days? I assume you can get overnight charging at home for a lot less than 25p per kwh. You obviously get royally shafted if you have to charge at the motorway services...

[richard at home]

Lil_Red_GTO said:

richard at home said:

In the 190,000 miles I've driven it, the only fault I had was a dead ECU.

Really?! That's absolutely incredible. If what you say is true, I'd be looking for another Focus, same model, just with fewer miles on it. You will be VERY lucky to get that level of reliability with anything else.

Yep, bought it a year old with 10k on the clock, for £10k. It's been through all the usual wear and tear items (front lower suspension bushes, front brakes, battery, front shocks etc). I changed the cambelt once and the turbo is getting a bit oily these days, but the only time it's ever actually broken down was when the ECU went bang for no apparent reason. I got a used one cloned and stuck it in. No more issues.

The turbo vaccuum valve started leaking once, but it was still driveable, easy fix, once I found it.

Had the wire form the temp sensor break, in the middle of the wire once. Again still drivable, just a scary moment when the temp gauge went right to max for no reason one day. Another esy fix, once found.

It's been a great, if unexciting car and I might well look for a lower milage one with a diesel motor in.

[richard at home]

LightweightLouisDanvers said:

I'd say they will be great for the first owner, while they are in warranty, after that the manufacturer won't give a fk.

Overly complicated technology with high demands place on small capacity engines built down to a price. What could possibly go wrong?

My neighbours have a 1 year old self charging hybrid 2.5 petrol Rav4. It's already been in the garage because it 'failed to proceed' on either battery or petrol power and it does poor mpg in combined use. The future tech is great!

Exactly my thoughts!

[Earthdweller]

Lil_Red_GTO said:

richard at home said:

In the 190,000 miles I've driven it, the only fault I had was a dead ECU.

Really?! That's absolutely incredible. If what you say is true, I'd be looking for another Focus, same model, just with fewer miles on it. You will be VERY lucky to get that level of reliability with anything else.

I don't know, if you look after a car it will generally look after you ... I'm 110k and ten years into a 20d BMW and the only "faults" have been 2 rear springs snapping, one at 80k and one at 104k ( plus a couple of recals)

[Quattr04.]

Earthdweller said:

I don't know, if you look after a car it will generally look after you ... I'm 110k and ten years into a 20d BMW and the only "faults" have been 2 rear springs snapping, one at 80k and one at 104k ( plus a couple of recals)

Is that the 2.0D well known for getting timing chain stretch and causing the engine to blow its self up


Loads of cars have well known issues, ford ecobooms, Peugeots with wet belts and DPFs etc

I do thinking about stuff like these 1.0 turbo engines and longevity, but they’ve been though testing and so long as they’re looked after I’m sure they’ll be fine, although I had a Citroen for a while with a 3 cylinder 1.2 and I hated the way it delivered its power

The problems with SUVS and hybrid engines etc is poor aerodynamics, you won’t get anywhere as good mpg out of a SUV as you would a estate car.

A madza 2.0 NA engine wouldn’t cause any problems

[Ham_and_Jam]

Im just getting my first foray into the world of EV via the PHEV route.

For us we only have one car in the family. 80-90% of the journeys are less than 40 miles round trips. All my wifes family are 200 miles away.

I’ve gone for a Merc E Class. 2 litre petrol with a 20kw battery that does 70 miles on electric only.

Seems a great combo on the face of it, but only time will tell. Arrives next month.

[sherman]

LightweightLouisDanvers said:

I'd say they will be great for the first owner, while they are in warranty, after that the manufacturer won't give a fk.

Overly complicated technology with high demands place on small capacity engines built down to a price. What could possibly go wrong?

My neighbours have a 1 year old self charging hybrid 2.5 petrol Rav4. It's already been in the garage because it 'failed to proceed' on either battery or petrol power and it does poor mpg in combined use. The future tech is great!

An E power invertor unit is circa £6000+ a full days labour to replace.
Within 5 years it will becausing several otherwise useable cars to be scrapped.

[Oberheim]

richard at home said:

Just looking for a Focus replacement, something a year old with under 10k on the clock that will last!

Toyota Corolla hybrid. Same size class, diesel-like economy, proven hybrid technology, proven durability (especially the 1.8 variant). Love mine.

[Quattr04.]

Oberheim said:

richard at home said:

Just looking for a Focus replacement, something a year old with under 10k on the clock that will last!

Toyota Corolla hybrid. Same size class, diesel-like economy, proven hybrid technology, proven durability (especially the 1.8 variant). Love mine.

I’m sure I’m the only person that hates the Toyota set up, seems to barely do any driving on EV as soon as there’s a tiny hill or you put a tiny bit of pressure on the pedal the engine kicks in, awful CVT gearbox that screams its way up the revs and a NA engine that makes a massive song and dance of delivering any power

[Oberheim]

wyson said:

OP seems to do a lot of motorway miles, prime territory for a diesel. What MPG are you getting with your Corolla on the motoway? Mid to high 40’s?

Difficult to give an accurate estimate of MPG for motorway driving specifically and I'm not a brim to brim nerd, but on a 2-hour trip I do regularly that involves mainly dual carriageways plus a couple of junctions on the M40 and M1, the trip computer at journey end always shows an MPG in the early to mid-fifties.

[mjlloyd500]

I've had a alfa tonale plug in hybrid for 18 months now and using electric only to the shops and around town is great but on motorway driving it only does around 35 to the gallon but on the plus side it has 280 bhp so does to 60 in around 5.5 seconds. It's a shame it's range is only around 38 miles

[Oberheim]

Quattr04. said:

I’m sure I’m the only person that hates the Toyota set up, seems to barely do any driving on EV as soon as there’s a tiny hill or you put a tiny bit of pressure on the pedal the engine kicks in, awful CVT gearbox that screams its way up the revs and a NA engine that makes a massive song and dance of delivering any power

I'm sure you're not the only one. Toyota hybrids are not for everyone but the soaring revs issue with the transmission has improved with each iteration of the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive system. The transmission is not a CVT in the conventional sense - no cones or belts, but a planetary gear set linked to the two electric motors.

The revs do surge high for a while when you put your foot down but the transmission catches up and settles down, more quickly in Toyotas that have the fifth-generation hybrid drivetrain (first introduced in the Corolla in 2023). The engines are designed for efficiency rather than power and are low on torque but this is supplanted by a surge of power on demand from the electric motors when you put your foot down. I had to change my driving style when I first got a Toyota hybrid but I soon adapted and learned how to get the best out of the drivetrain.

[TooLateForAName]

Oberheim said:

wyson said:

OP seems to do a lot of motorway miles, prime territory for a diesel. What MPG are you getting with your Corolla on the motoway? Mid to high 40’s?

Difficult to give an accurate estimate of MPG for motorway driving specifically and I'm not a brim to brim nerd, but on a 2-hour trip I do regularly that involves mainly dual carriageways plus a couple of junctions on the M40 and M1, the trip computer at journey end always shows an MPG in the early to mid-fifties.

I had a corolla as a hire car and did 400 miles in 2 days. economy was surprisingly good. It was showing 70mpg on a combination of motorways and then a slog across wales.

Didn't rate it as a car - noisy, not terribly comfortable and cvt. but no argument with the economy.

[Oberheim]

TooLateForAName said:

I had a corolla as a hire car and did 400 miles in 2 days. economy was surprisingly good. It was showing 70mpg on a combination of motorways and then a slog across wales.

Didn't rate it as a car - noisy, not terribly comfortable and cvt. but no argument with the economy.

I've done a number of journeys that were in the late sixties/early seventies MPG in my Corolla but these were all in the warmer months of the year.

Funnily enough I find mine very comfortable, smooth and relaxing to drive and very rarely noisy unless accelerating uphill (I don't tend to encounter many hills in my part of the country TBF) but we're all different.

The Toyota hybrid e-CVT system has its quirks I guess but it just works, and will carry on working for hundreds of thousands of miles without issue for most people.

[wyson]

I can only dream of MPG like that in my Peugeot 3008 1.2 Puretech, 8 speed auto.

20mpg on the school run because it’s on a slight hill, otherwise 27mpg around town. High 30’s on uncongested motorways. Does best on A roads and congested motorways, can get mid 40’s.

My current average over about 5k miles is 27.6mpg.

This is way off official figures. It’s supposed to do 55mpg on the combined cycle. I only see figures in the 50’s if the car is going downhill.

The way I see it, these reduced sized engines work best in the lab and are overworked in larger cars. I’d pay attention to the displacement first and foremost. A 1.2 turbo might work ok in something smalll and light like a 208. A 3008 works it too hard. Shudder to think what the economy will be like in a 508 or 5008.

Edited by wyson on Wednesday 12th March 15:57