Discussion
I always feel like I'm missing something when it comes to VW's. I still give them a chance but a part of me wonders if I've just owned / travelled in the wrong ones. Convince me otherwise! My experience:
Brother had a Golf GTI 16V Mark 3 in the mid 2000's. It didn't feel remarkably quick, rattly and crashy.
I had a T5 Van in around 2012 (4 years old at the time). It was underpowered, very plasticy and developed a very irritating fault which resulted in a constant beep from the dashboard - highly annoying!
I bought a Passat in 2016 (around 7 years old at the time). It was such an underwhelming car - cloth seats, manual rear windows, zero gadgets. Did it's job but in a similar way that my fridge does it's job. Someone T-boned me in that one and wrote the car off so it did, kind of save my life which I guess has to be held in some regard
Very recently my wife decided she wanted an EV so we went to look at an ID3 (21 plate). It was hideous inside! Very plasticy and the infotainment system was un-usable. She went for an E208 Peugeot instead which strangely felt much better put together.
I feel like I've given them a chance but they just don't do it for me!
Brother had a Golf GTI 16V Mark 3 in the mid 2000's. It didn't feel remarkably quick, rattly and crashy.
I had a T5 Van in around 2012 (4 years old at the time). It was underpowered, very plasticy and developed a very irritating fault which resulted in a constant beep from the dashboard - highly annoying!
I bought a Passat in 2016 (around 7 years old at the time). It was such an underwhelming car - cloth seats, manual rear windows, zero gadgets. Did it's job but in a similar way that my fridge does it's job. Someone T-boned me in that one and wrote the car off so it did, kind of save my life which I guess has to be held in some regard
Very recently my wife decided she wanted an EV so we went to look at an ID3 (21 plate). It was hideous inside! Very plasticy and the infotainment system was un-usable. She went for an E208 Peugeot instead which strangely felt much better put together.
I feel like I've given them a chance but they just don't do it for me!
I had a Scirocco R around 2013/4... and was brilliant to drive, felt planted, went quickly when needed and the adaptive suspension took it from a comfy ride to far more eager for an apex.
I traded it in, but wished I hadn't almost straight after.
I also had a Golf R, mk 7.5, and as above was a really good ride, would track the road really well, fly out of corners etc.
Inside while they could be seen as dull, the all black meant no reflections, the seats held you really nicely, and things like carplay on the Golf meant entertainment and nav on the move wasn't a problem. Even had a DVD player in the glovebox.
I realise these are both examples of top models in their respective ranges, and I'm sure that lower down things get worse, but I guess you pay less for them, so to be expected.
Right now, I wouldn't go back to VW the Mk8 Golf just cut corners unnecessarily, and I'm really not sure they've turned that boat around yet. But in the future, if they get things right, I'd buy one again.
I traded it in, but wished I hadn't almost straight after.
I also had a Golf R, mk 7.5, and as above was a really good ride, would track the road really well, fly out of corners etc.
Inside while they could be seen as dull, the all black meant no reflections, the seats held you really nicely, and things like carplay on the Golf meant entertainment and nav on the move wasn't a problem. Even had a DVD player in the glovebox.
I realise these are both examples of top models in their respective ranges, and I'm sure that lower down things get worse, but I guess you pay less for them, so to be expected.
Right now, I wouldn't go back to VW the Mk8 Golf just cut corners unnecessarily, and I'm really not sure they've turned that boat around yet. But in the future, if they get things right, I'd buy one again.
Never owned a VW but help maintain a few. They seem to enjoy putting every liquid reservoir right next to the cam belt. ECU light on is just a way of life. Water leaks into the cabin are very common.
The wishbone setup on the '00s Polo is utterly stupid. The wishbone bush is in the subframe for some reason. Remove that and the top of the rusty bolt (which you can't get to in order to clean it up) drags the thread out of the subframe. IIRC. Two cam belts on a lowly 1.4 16V. Weird.
Never been tempted to own a VAG product.
The wishbone setup on the '00s Polo is utterly stupid. The wishbone bush is in the subframe for some reason. Remove that and the top of the rusty bolt (which you can't get to in order to clean it up) drags the thread out of the subframe. IIRC. Two cam belts on a lowly 1.4 16V. Weird.
Never been tempted to own a VAG product.
Generally speaking....
Excellent ergonomics, well thought out driving position and even simple stuff like steering wheels (many other brands get wrong, it used to hurt my hands driving vauxhalls for too long!)
Excellent perceived quality. Inoffensive/classy styling.
Well weighted controls, decent ride and handling, usually refined.
(Usually) cheap parts, (Usually) reliable and wear incredibly slowly compared to others at their price point.
When I was a durability engineer it was known that whilst most manufacturers have a 150k mile design life, VAG worked to 250k mile. Not 100% sure if true but personal experience testifies to that.
Excellent ergonomics, well thought out driving position and even simple stuff like steering wheels (many other brands get wrong, it used to hurt my hands driving vauxhalls for too long!)
Excellent perceived quality. Inoffensive/classy styling.
Well weighted controls, decent ride and handling, usually refined.
(Usually) cheap parts, (Usually) reliable and wear incredibly slowly compared to others at their price point.
When I was a durability engineer it was known that whilst most manufacturers have a 150k mile design life, VAG worked to 250k mile. Not 100% sure if true but personal experience testifies to that.
I suppose i'm a bit of a vw fan. Always had at least one on the drive.
Sucession on Mk2 GTI's, a couple of Mk4 GTI's, a Mk7 Golf R. Still have a mk1 GTI in the garage...
Had a lupo briefly, and my longest owned vehicle is a 2008 Caravelle, which is the family workhorse (230k and still going strong).
IMO they are reliable, good value and fun. Sure, other cars can be a better drive at 10/10's, but don't match the ownership proposition. Decent to work on, good spares backup (even for a 40 year old golf, I can still get parts quickly & easily).
Sucession on Mk2 GTI's, a couple of Mk4 GTI's, a Mk7 Golf R. Still have a mk1 GTI in the garage...
Had a lupo briefly, and my longest owned vehicle is a 2008 Caravelle, which is the family workhorse (230k and still going strong).
IMO they are reliable, good value and fun. Sure, other cars can be a better drive at 10/10's, but don't match the ownership proposition. Decent to work on, good spares backup (even for a 40 year old golf, I can still get parts quickly & easily).
Clearly not true given VAGs mediocre reliability.
I had a SEAT Leon once, which was based on the famed Golf platform cira 2003. Hateful bloody thing that went wrong every other week. All stupid stuff and testament to the cost cutting they employ.
The proof of these things is when something goes wrong and you Google the fault to find thousands of threads crossing all sub brands. In fairness each fix was a cinch as many people on various forums posted repair threads with step by step pictures.
I changed to an Accord. I had one fault in 5 years. I googled it to find nothing at all anywhere. Says everything TBH.
I had a SEAT Leon once, which was based on the famed Golf platform cira 2003. Hateful bloody thing that went wrong every other week. All stupid stuff and testament to the cost cutting they employ.
The proof of these things is when something goes wrong and you Google the fault to find thousands of threads crossing all sub brands. In fairness each fix was a cinch as many people on various forums posted repair threads with step by step pictures.
I changed to an Accord. I had one fault in 5 years. I googled it to find nothing at all anywhere. Says everything TBH.
Yeah - mine have been a mixed bag -
1979 Mk1 Polo - brilliant smooth 895 cc ohc engine, ran on unleaded fuel (yes back then), a hoot to drive, BUT it was base model and that meant it didn't even have a passenger sunvisor!
1979 T2 Panel Van. Slow, thirsty, unreliable and freezing cold in the cab in winter. Not much to recommend really although the air powered screenwash was funny.
1990 Passat Estate 1.8 petrol - really economical but slow. Dangerously poor headlights
1996 Passat Estate 2.8 VR6 - GL model so had steel wheels. Hilarious for emerging from a roundabout onto dual carriageways alongside a similar age 3 series who'd pulled out as he came off the roundabout blast past this smelly old Passat and watching them disappear into the rear view mirror. Bad torque steer and 10bhp less than the same engine in the Corrado (but much the same dashboard).
After that I gave up - wouldn't have another T2 if it was free (well maybe to sell)
Tried a 2005 Audi A3 - Golf in a posh frock. Not reliable, no suspension fitted at all, no power (1.6 petrol sport model) crap.
Never bothered with another VAG product.
1979 Mk1 Polo - brilliant smooth 895 cc ohc engine, ran on unleaded fuel (yes back then), a hoot to drive, BUT it was base model and that meant it didn't even have a passenger sunvisor!
1979 T2 Panel Van. Slow, thirsty, unreliable and freezing cold in the cab in winter. Not much to recommend really although the air powered screenwash was funny.
1990 Passat Estate 1.8 petrol - really economical but slow. Dangerously poor headlights
1996 Passat Estate 2.8 VR6 - GL model so had steel wheels. Hilarious for emerging from a roundabout onto dual carriageways alongside a similar age 3 series who'd pulled out as he came off the roundabout blast past this smelly old Passat and watching them disappear into the rear view mirror. Bad torque steer and 10bhp less than the same engine in the Corrado (but much the same dashboard).
After that I gave up - wouldn't have another T2 if it was free (well maybe to sell)
Tried a 2005 Audi A3 - Golf in a posh frock. Not reliable, no suspension fitted at all, no power (1.6 petrol sport model) crap.
Never bothered with another VAG product.
I think with VW you need to spend bigger money to get a better feel. They do some really low rent stuff in my experience and come with little more than a nice badge.
I have owned 2 VW's and driven a 3rd quite extensively. Now I have to admit, my experience is of cars from the early to later 2000's, but it was enough to put me off.
First car was a Lupo 1.4S I think it was, it was fine but had little more than electric front windows and central locking. The steering wheel was plastic and the whole cabin was a similar quality, just very hard plastics. I regretted buying it after a few days of owning it.
Second car was an almost brand new 2008 Polo 1.4s, this was for the wife as she liked the car and the badge. It looked nice and I liked the seats, but again, everything was plastic, steering wheel included, and it didn't even have remote central locking, an optional extra! Keep in mind this wasn't the bottom of the range model it is a bit of a piss take. If it had that old fashioned VW reliability that they liked to shout about it would have been something, but it was far from it. I was glad to see the back of the thing.
Third was use of a Bora, good lord, just as sparce but slower than existence itself. This wasn't mine thankfully, but it was just awful and bland.
I know a few VW fan boys, but unless you are spending big money, you end up with something very low rent for your money, I don't get the loyalty really...
I have owned 2 VW's and driven a 3rd quite extensively. Now I have to admit, my experience is of cars from the early to later 2000's, but it was enough to put me off.
First car was a Lupo 1.4S I think it was, it was fine but had little more than electric front windows and central locking. The steering wheel was plastic and the whole cabin was a similar quality, just very hard plastics. I regretted buying it after a few days of owning it.
Second car was an almost brand new 2008 Polo 1.4s, this was for the wife as she liked the car and the badge. It looked nice and I liked the seats, but again, everything was plastic, steering wheel included, and it didn't even have remote central locking, an optional extra! Keep in mind this wasn't the bottom of the range model it is a bit of a piss take. If it had that old fashioned VW reliability that they liked to shout about it would have been something, but it was far from it. I was glad to see the back of the thing.
Third was use of a Bora, good lord, just as sparce but slower than existence itself. This wasn't mine thankfully, but it was just awful and bland.
I know a few VW fan boys, but unless you are spending big money, you end up with something very low rent for your money, I don't get the loyalty really...
I've had a fair few VW. I think perhaps something that exists compared to other brands is they aren't a premium brand and most of the time they don't have such a high focus in the lineup. What I mean is that's where the Audi badge comes in. They sell the same stuff with a different badge and generally a higher spec. I don't think off the top of my head another manufacturer does that? Maybe Toyota and lexus, export points aside.
For me they have always just worked, I don't particularly care about if it's a bit plastic but I always look to see if there are plenty of spaces to throw stuff in the door bins which vw always cater to. For me I just want a car that does it's job for my daily and that's what they have done, don't need anything fancy, just functional, don't need to set the world alight.
For me they have always just worked, I don't particularly care about if it's a bit plastic but I always look to see if there are plenty of spaces to throw stuff in the door bins which vw always cater to. For me I just want a car that does it's job for my daily and that's what they have done, don't need anything fancy, just functional, don't need to set the world alight.
DKS said:
Never owned a VW but help maintain a few. They seem to enjoy putting every liquid reservoir right next to the cam belt. ECU light on is just a way of life. Water leaks into the cabin are very common.
The wishbone setup on the '00s Polo is utterly stupid. The wishbone bush is in the subframe for some reason. Remove that and the top of the rusty bolt (which you can't get to in order to clean it up) drags the thread out of the subframe. IIRC. Two cam belts on a lowly 1.4 16V. Weird.
Never been tempted to own a VAG product.
Summed up my VW experience there...The wishbone setup on the '00s Polo is utterly stupid. The wishbone bush is in the subframe for some reason. Remove that and the top of the rusty bolt (which you can't get to in order to clean it up) drags the thread out of the subframe. IIRC. Two cam belts on a lowly 1.4 16V. Weird.
Never been tempted to own a VAG product.
I'm kind of sat in the middle of all this, having owned both basic and halo VAG products. Weirdly, the older basic stuff was better than it is now, but the top range stuff is leagues above where it used to be!
I've had 8 different cars from the stable, different generations, aimed at different people, from mid-90s polos, to an Audi A5 and a Touareg.
Polos were cheap, basic and not always reliable (4 destroyed gearboxes in the 2nd one) but served perfectly as first cars for a young lad.
The A5 was a lovely place to be, drove well and thanks to the V6 TDI lump and quattro, went like stink! Handled well too, but hard on consumables.
Touareg was a beast, but expensive to run/maintain. Not that much went wrong. Fabia (polo with a taller roof) with almost no mod cons - electric windows was all it stretched to! handled well enough but no guts, not economical enough to make the gutlessness worth it, and cheap plastics everywhere.
Currently have a 2017 Superb L&K Estate as the family wagon. Not faultless, but damn close, well put together inside and out, comfortable, practical, feels like it will go on forever!
TL;DR Hype may be based around the good, with rose tinted glasses firmly on for the rest....
I've had 8 different cars from the stable, different generations, aimed at different people, from mid-90s polos, to an Audi A5 and a Touareg.
Polos were cheap, basic and not always reliable (4 destroyed gearboxes in the 2nd one) but served perfectly as first cars for a young lad.
The A5 was a lovely place to be, drove well and thanks to the V6 TDI lump and quattro, went like stink! Handled well too, but hard on consumables.
Touareg was a beast, but expensive to run/maintain. Not that much went wrong. Fabia (polo with a taller roof) with almost no mod cons - electric windows was all it stretched to! handled well enough but no guts, not economical enough to make the gutlessness worth it, and cheap plastics everywhere.
Currently have a 2017 Superb L&K Estate as the family wagon. Not faultless, but damn close, well put together inside and out, comfortable, practical, feels like it will go on forever!
TL;DR Hype may be based around the good, with rose tinted glasses firmly on for the rest....
I had my Golf R estate for 2 years, reliability problems were more little niggles than anything. Had to change the PCV valve but that wasn't too dear or time consuming. After I got it remapped it was ridiculously quick at lower speeds. I didn't really launch it just out of mechanical sympathy, but from around 10-50mph it went like f
k. I'd put my foot down coming out of a roundabout and find myself at daft speeds very quickly, especially since traction was practically endless.
It was very flat as a car you'd actually enjoy driving though, the reality of bunging it down a B Road was more a case of "bloody hell it was going at some whack through there" rather than an interactive experience. Felt like it was driving me rather than the other way round, and if I did ever get to the limit of grip it would just push into a bit of understeer.
I get the appeal, just not sure I'd have one again. Maybe one with a few more handling mods, like a 3 door with a set of KW V3s and stiffer anti-roll bars. Not sure there's much you could do for the lack of steering feel, maybe lightweight wheels?
k. I'd put my foot down coming out of a roundabout and find myself at daft speeds very quickly, especially since traction was practically endless.It was very flat as a car you'd actually enjoy driving though, the reality of bunging it down a B Road was more a case of "bloody hell it was going at some whack through there" rather than an interactive experience. Felt like it was driving me rather than the other way round, and if I did ever get to the limit of grip it would just push into a bit of understeer.
I get the appeal, just not sure I'd have one again. Maybe one with a few more handling mods, like a 3 door with a set of KW V3s and stiffer anti-roll bars. Not sure there's much you could do for the lack of steering feel, maybe lightweight wheels?
I've had lots of VW experience and just picking up on OP it's a mixed bag...
Mk3 Golf GTI was a (widely accepted) low point. My mate had one that I used to drive, it was terrible. By contrast, both the Mk2 golf and the Mk4 golf i enjoyed greatly.
T5 - no experience but I've had a T6, and loved it. The only "van" i'd consider parking on the drive (i.e. the only one accepted by the other half as aesthetically acceptable). Objectively i'm sure lots of other vans are better, but the punchline is that even a grotty VW van will generally still hold its value.
Passat - i've had a few Passats and really enjoyed their "honesty". One went to 245k miles. Others have all been faultless if entirely predictable and unexciting. It's one of the cars (alongside a Corolla hybrid) that i'd happily recommend if I had to recommend a car to a family member or someone I'd never met and knew nothing about but who just wanted "a good car".
ID3 - interior is as plasticky and cheap as you describe - completely agree. Not driven one, but have been in lots of them. Cost-cutting gone too far, and it shows.
Pre-facelift Tiguan is an excellent all-rounder (see the "passat recommendation" above). Also had a couple of Polos of various generations without any problems.
I like them in the same way I like Toyota - the attraction lies not in the journey but in the destination in a way i.e. it's a dependable car that gets me and my family where I need to go, and therefore becomes a trusted companion on adventures, rather than being particularly rewarding in itself.
Mk3 Golf GTI was a (widely accepted) low point. My mate had one that I used to drive, it was terrible. By contrast, both the Mk2 golf and the Mk4 golf i enjoyed greatly.
T5 - no experience but I've had a T6, and loved it. The only "van" i'd consider parking on the drive (i.e. the only one accepted by the other half as aesthetically acceptable). Objectively i'm sure lots of other vans are better, but the punchline is that even a grotty VW van will generally still hold its value.
Passat - i've had a few Passats and really enjoyed their "honesty". One went to 245k miles. Others have all been faultless if entirely predictable and unexciting. It's one of the cars (alongside a Corolla hybrid) that i'd happily recommend if I had to recommend a car to a family member or someone I'd never met and knew nothing about but who just wanted "a good car".
ID3 - interior is as plasticky and cheap as you describe - completely agree. Not driven one, but have been in lots of them. Cost-cutting gone too far, and it shows.
Pre-facelift Tiguan is an excellent all-rounder (see the "passat recommendation" above). Also had a couple of Polos of various generations without any problems.
I like them in the same way I like Toyota - the attraction lies not in the journey but in the destination in a way i.e. it's a dependable car that gets me and my family where I need to go, and therefore becomes a trusted companion on adventures, rather than being particularly rewarding in itself.
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