Electronic shifting - a rant
Discussion
I was out on a gravel ride with a friend who's back into cycling after some time out. He's had his bike for about 6 months; it was specced with SRAM AXS.
Not long into the first big climb of the day, in an area with patchy phone signal, his chain jumped off his lowest gear into the spokes. For some reason the derailleur seemed to be shifting too far.
He has no mechanical knowledge but I'm getting more comfortable with home mechanic stuff. Tried adjusting the limit screw but all I could do with that was stop it going into the lowest gear completely, otherwise the issue persisted. He had to get his phone out, connect to the SRAM app (another bloody app) and then attempt to adjust it through that. The whole thing took about half an hour to sort out. By the end of the day, he'd lost shifting to the highest 3 gears too,
Were it a mechanical setup this would have been pretty straightforward for me to fix with some basic cable adjustment, in about 5 minutes.
Then you've got issues with battery life and charging, taking spare batteries etc. And you need your phone to make it all work. I do a fair bit of bike packing and I can imagine a constant low-level anxiety about battery life, whether my shifter might suffer a technical glitch etc, a software problem with my phone etc. Could be a long, long walk home.
Like touchscreens in cars, this just seems like another example of tech for the sake of it. But the bike industry seems to suggest I'm wrong. So what am I missing?
Not long into the first big climb of the day, in an area with patchy phone signal, his chain jumped off his lowest gear into the spokes. For some reason the derailleur seemed to be shifting too far.
He has no mechanical knowledge but I'm getting more comfortable with home mechanic stuff. Tried adjusting the limit screw but all I could do with that was stop it going into the lowest gear completely, otherwise the issue persisted. He had to get his phone out, connect to the SRAM app (another bloody app) and then attempt to adjust it through that. The whole thing took about half an hour to sort out. By the end of the day, he'd lost shifting to the highest 3 gears too,
Were it a mechanical setup this would have been pretty straightforward for me to fix with some basic cable adjustment, in about 5 minutes.
Then you've got issues with battery life and charging, taking spare batteries etc. And you need your phone to make it all work. I do a fair bit of bike packing and I can imagine a constant low-level anxiety about battery life, whether my shifter might suffer a technical glitch etc, a software problem with my phone etc. Could be a long, long walk home.
Like touchscreens in cars, this just seems like another example of tech for the sake of it. But the bike industry seems to suggest I'm wrong. So what am I missing?
I was in Mallorca a few weeks ago and rented a bike with Di2.
I connected my garmin to the shifters so I could see battery level. One of the others in the group (who also connected to garmin) ended up with a flat battery 40miles into a 115mile ride, with the garmin still showing the shifter battery as full
The bike hire place was very good and came and swapped the seat post battery.
I came back quite happy with my mechanical shifters!
I connected my garmin to the shifters so I could see battery level. One of the others in the group (who also connected to garmin) ended up with a flat battery 40miles into a 115mile ride, with the garmin still showing the shifter battery as full
The bike hire place was very good and came and swapped the seat post battery.
I came back quite happy with my mechanical shifters!
Sounds like it's a skill and familiarity issue TBH.
In the same way that you understand and can fix the mechanical derailleur if your friend was familiar with and understood his axs rear derailleur then it should have been an easy fix.
If you had never seen or worked on a mechanical derailleur then you might have been making the same complaints about one of those.
In the same way that you understand and can fix the mechanical derailleur if your friend was familiar with and understood his axs rear derailleur then it should have been an easy fix.
If you had never seen or worked on a mechanical derailleur then you might have been making the same complaints about one of those.
jamm13dodger said:
Sounds like it's a skill and familiarity issue TBH.
In the same way that you understand and can fix the mechanical derailleur if your friend was familiar with and understood his axs rear derailleur then it should have been an easy fix.
If you had never seen or worked on a mechanical derailleur then you might have been making the same complaints about one of those.
I take your point but mechanical skill aside, there's surely a big risk that a battery or software issue (including with your phone) could render your mech useless? I've also had to wait for half an hour while another friend charged her rear mech battery in a cafe. I'm just struggling to see any real advantage over a plain old cable that can be used whenever you like and fixed or even replaced anywhere if you're carrying a spare. In the same way that you understand and can fix the mechanical derailleur if your friend was familiar with and understood his axs rear derailleur then it should have been an easy fix.
If you had never seen or worked on a mechanical derailleur then you might have been making the same complaints about one of those.
I've also watched a few of Katy Winton's videos - she's done one recently of her on the Great Southern Brevet in NZ. She went through 3 rear mech batteries and her last one started playing up well before the end.
Just doesn't seem worth it.
OutInTheShed said:
People want this stuff.
Magazines tell them to want it?
The latter! Magazines tell them to want it?
The world has always been full of the gullible.
And those same people are currently moaning that they wont pay £31 a month to watch procycling on TNT as "its a rip off" whilst buying Di2 equipped bikes to ride on flat surfaces!
Edited by BunkMoreland on Saturday 5th April 21:17
Don’t really see the fuss too be honest.
Running out of di2 battery on a ride is just silly. It lasts for ages and the head unit will tell you battery levels. I get a warning when it’s at 10% or thereabouts, which in itself will get you a long way.
You can micro adjust on the move if necessary, but once set up it shouldn’t be an issue.
I wouldn’t go back to mechanical (or rim brakes). Also get along with the other often complained about tubeless set up. Any Issues generally traced back to poor set up.
Running out of di2 battery on a ride is just silly. It lasts for ages and the head unit will tell you battery levels. I get a warning when it’s at 10% or thereabouts, which in itself will get you a long way.
You can micro adjust on the move if necessary, but once set up it shouldn’t be an issue.
I wouldn’t go back to mechanical (or rim brakes). Also get along with the other often complained about tubeless set up. Any Issues generally traced back to poor set up.
My only experience of Di2 was on a hired bike in Tenerife.
Wasn't that impressed and due to carpel tunnel issues after a few hours I was really struggling to feel the buttons, I doubt I'd be able to use it at all in colder weather.
Absolutely no desire to ever move away from mechanical shifting.
Wasn't that impressed and due to carpel tunnel issues after a few hours I was really struggling to feel the buttons, I doubt I'd be able to use it at all in colder weather.
Absolutely no desire to ever move away from mechanical shifting.
My 4y old best bike has Di2 and its utterly fantastic.
As is the integration with my Garmin for all kinds of geek/tech like battery life etc etc etc
The rest of the stable includes hedonistic toys with cable Duraace and posho GRX amongst others
These are well maintained and regularly serviced
I would never buy a bike with cable gears again
The difference is stark
Cheers
I have Campy SR EPS, sometimes it does over shift ( particularly on the FD) and de chain. It’s usually just a case of getting the shifters into service mode, and a couple of dabs on the lever / button to get it back to normal. I do have some slightly odd shifting programs, but that’s because I tend to look for steep hills on my routes.
Dbag101 said:
I have Campy SR EPS, sometimes it does over shift ( particularly on the FD) and de chain. It’s usually just a case of getting the shifters into service mode, and a couple of dabs on the lever / button to get it back to normal. I do have some slightly odd shifting programs, but that’s because I tend to look for steep hills on my routes.
Is that the SR wireless group? Have you managed to pair it with the My Campy app? It’s so far defeated me!OutInTheShed said:
People want this stuff.
Magazines tell them to want it?
I wanted it.Magazines tell them to want it?
I also know to spend 2 seconds pressing the button to check the battery level is over 50% when I get back from a ride and plug it in if not.
Alas, no matter how good the tech is, it can't make up for stupid/lazy/forgetful.
Wardy78 said:
OutInTheShed said:
People want this stuff.
Magazines tell them to want it?
I wanted it.Magazines tell them to want it?
I also know to spend 2 seconds pressing the button to check the battery level is over 50% when I get back from a ride and plug it in if not.
Alas, no matter how good the tech is, it can't make up for stupid/lazy/forgetful.
That said, I do find the Campag system a bit perplexing as it has a button for the big ring, and another for small ring. Why not just have one trigger which simply sends the chain to the other position like SRAM/Shim?
Talking of forgetful, a friend rode for some distance, mainly downhill, before he realised his DI2 battery was still sitting on the charger at home.
Robertb said:
I have a bike with electronic shifting and one without. I do love the consistency of the electronic shifting, never misses. I do like the simplicity of the cable shift too, but it feels very last season, particularly the front mech shift. I’d not all in all say it’s not the game-changer that disc brakes are, but it’s great to have.
That said, I do find the Campag system a bit perplexing as it has a button for the big ring, and another for small ring. Why not just have one trigger which simply sends the chain to the other position like SRAM/Shim?
Talking of forgetful, a friend rode for some distance, mainly downhill, before he realised his DI2 battery was still sitting on the charger at home.
The Campag thing, isn’t a thing, as long as you don’t pay too much attention to the ( admittedly bewildering) array of settings. It is overly complicated, but only if you start tying yourself up in knots with shift speeds and lever / button configs. I use a few different shift patterns, but don’t bugger about with the intricate bits, regarding shift times, and so on. It’s a bit of a beast of a system, but most of the intricacies are unnecessary for most people.That said, I do find the Campag system a bit perplexing as it has a button for the big ring, and another for small ring. Why not just have one trigger which simply sends the chain to the other position like SRAM/Shim?
Talking of forgetful, a friend rode for some distance, mainly downhill, before he realised his DI2 battery was still sitting on the charger at home.
Robertb said:
Talking of forgetful, a friend rode for some distance, mainly downhill, before he realised his DI2 battery was still sitting on the charger at home.
Must be an old version? Mine just plugs into the rear derailleur to charge? I've never actually seen the battery.I've got two road bikes, one is rim brakes and mechanical Dura-ace. The other is disc and Di2 Dura-ace.
The rim/mech bike is a lovely ride, but compared to the newer bike, it's a bit like riding an old classic, despite the fact it's lighter.
Never ridden e-shifters but people I trust tell me the changes are great, super slick and generally v pleasing to use.
But for me, one of the chief pleasures of my bikes is that they are simple mechanical devices that i enjoy working on and whose principles are easy (for me anyway as I am mechanically minded) to grasp.
So I'm happy to stick with mechanical shifting because I know how it works and can fix 99% of issues at the roadside in a few minutes, or at least bodge it so I can get home.
But for me, one of the chief pleasures of my bikes is that they are simple mechanical devices that i enjoy working on and whose principles are easy (for me anyway as I am mechanically minded) to grasp.
So I'm happy to stick with mechanical shifting because I know how it works and can fix 99% of issues at the roadside in a few minutes, or at least bodge it so I can get home.
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