Pothole causes accident?

[Speedywurzel]

The b roads round Shrewsbury are worse than our farm. Now driving home the other night met a car on a bend swerving to avoid a sodding great pothole, how we missed each other I’ll never know. Now if that was me avoiding a car damaging pothole and hit another car who would be to blame,the council or other driver? If the car had hit me the other night,I would have had complete sympathy with the other party looking at what he avoided!

[DodgyGeezer]

IANAL but I'd say it's the server at fault - the answer is to accept pothole damage and then sue the L.A. That said I'd have a degree of sympathy should others feel differently

[Fastpedeller]

Speedywurzel said:

The b roads round Shrewsbury are worse than our farm. Now driving home the other night met a car on a bend swerving to avoid a sodding great pothole, how we missed each other I’ll never know. Now if that was me avoiding a car damaging pothole and hit another car who would be to blame,the council or other driver? If the car had hit me the other night,I would have had complete sympathy with the other party looking at what he avoided!

I suggest you send the above to the Council, although I realise they won't respond. The more we report strengthens a victim's case - the fobbing off by Council Highways, and death caused by potholes will be exposed as the next legal scandal.

[m3jappa]

There was one near me which is similar, right in the path of drivers side wheels. People swerving onto the wrong side of the road just before a corner…..

It was so bad it looks like someone has done a diy repair on it with coldlay.

The roads are beyond repair round here now. They need replacing!

[paul_c123]

No need to swerve, if you're looking at the road ahead properly. If indeed the potholes are so bad that it renders a single carriageway into, effectively, a single track road, then a massive reduction in speed and appropriate use of the horn at blind bends, would be my approach.

Since an accident didn't happen though, no worries.

[Durzel]

Speedywurzel said:

The b roads round Shrewsbury are worse than our farm. Now driving home the other night met a car on a bend swerving to avoid a sodding great pothole, how we missed each other I’ll never know. Now if that was me avoiding a car damaging pothole and hit another car who would be to blame,the council or other driver? If the car had hit me the other night,I would have had complete sympathy with the other party looking at what he avoided!

You forgot the third option - you. You would be to blame for swerving into another car, pothole or not. It's as simple as that.

Any damage caused by said pothole from unavoidably running over it would be something you'd subsequently take up wth the council.

[Sheepshanks]

I live in rural Cheshire and I avoid the back roads now. I’m meeting a colleague next week and changed the pub he suggested as the route to it from my direction is a nightmare.

Wife still uses these roads and had a mirror smashed off - amazingly the woman going in the other direction stopped and apologised, said she’d swerved around a pothole.

[AlexGSi2000]

Wasnt there an incident last year whereby there was a death? Porsche iirc, supposedly avoiding a pot hole?

[FiF]

Well it's Shropshire, roads are a disgrace. Other side of the county, the B4194 road out from Bewdley towards Button Oak and onwards to Kinlet, there's a guy eventually, after many complaints, spraying paint around wheel, tyre and suspension killer holes. Yet completely ignoring holes that don't meet some arbitrary criteria only a few feet away. All are failed pothole repairs from last year.

The road is narrow and insufficient space to avoid everything when two vehicles meet. The amount of debris in the verges tells the story.

The council should be punished somehow for its dereliction.

[Antony Moxey]

paul_c123 said:

No need to swerve, if you're looking at the road ahead properly. If indeed the potholes are so bad that it renders a single carriageway into, effectively, a single track road, then a massive reduction in speed and appropriate use of the horn at blind bends, would be my approach.

Since an accident didn't happen though, no worries.

So do you think, if while driving along quite happily minding your own business, you suddenly see a very deep pothole in front of you you wouldn't swerve? You'd just plough through thinking there might be something coming the other way so you shouldn't swerve to avoid it? I expect you'll come back with something about observation, but if you don't know there's one there, you won't be looking for it, nor would you temper your speed just in case.

[charltjr]

Antony Moxey said:

paul_c123 said:

No need to swerve, if you're looking at the road ahead properly. If indeed the potholes are so bad that it renders a single carriageway into, effectively, a single track road, then a massive reduction in speed and appropriate use of the horn at blind bends, would be my approach.

Since an accident didn't happen though, no worries.

So do you think, if while driving along quite happily minding your own business, you suddenly see a very deep pothole in front of you you wouldn't swerve? You'd just plough through thinking there might be something coming the other way so you shouldn't swerve to avoid it? I expect you'll come back with something about observation, but if you don't know there's one there, you won't be looking for it, nor would you temper your speed just in case.

Always be able to stop in the distance you can see. Swerving around an "unavoidable" pothole just means the driver was travelling too fast to be able to adapt to the road conditions or was being inattentive.

I know that's "in a perfect world" stuff, but that's the standard that drivers are held to. I generally don't like what if's but what if there was some solid object in the road and not a pothole - who's fault would it be if a driver hit that object because they didn't have time to react to it?

None of that takes away from the truly stty job councils are doing of maintaining the roads of course.

[paul_c123]

Antony Moxey said:

So do you think, if while driving along quite happily minding your own business, you suddenly see a very deep pothole in front of you you wouldn't swerve? You'd just plough through thinking there might be something coming the other way so you shouldn't swerve to avoid it? I expect you'll come back with something about observation, but if you don't know there's one there, you won't be looking for it, nor would you temper your speed just in case.

You've answered the question there. Nothing should "suddenly" be seen.

I'd temper my speed if I didn't know there WASN'T a pothole coming up. And given the state of the country roads in the areas of discussion, I'd be keeping my speed down both to help see/judge things better, and to make any required slowings down or avoiding manoeuvres not sudden.

If you're ploughing on at/near the max speed limit, hoping to slam on the brakes if/when you see something you need to avoid, its the wrong approach and its only a matter of time before you're caught out.

[48k]

Speedywurzel said:

The b roads round Shrewsbury are worse than our farm. Now driving home the other night met a car on a bend swerving to avoid a sodding great pothole, how we missed each other I’ll never know. Now if that was me avoiding a car damaging pothole and hit another car who would be to blame,the council or other driver? If the car had hit me the other night,I would have had complete sympathy with the other party looking at what he avoided!

In what universe would you swerving in to another vehicle be their fault?

[Googie]

Fastpedeller said:

Speedywurzel said:

The b roads round Shrewsbury are worse than our farm. Now driving home the other night met a car on a bend swerving to avoid a sodding great pothole, how we missed each other I’ll never know. Now if that was me avoiding a car damaging pothole and hit another car who would be to blame,the council or other driver? If the car had hit me the other night,I would have had complete sympathy with the other party looking at what he avoided!

I suggest you send the above to the Council, although I realise they won't respond. The more we report strengthens a victim's case - the fobbing off by Council Highways, and death caused by potholes will be exposed as the next legal scandal.

Don't know the ins and outs, but they do have a Statutory Defence to fall back on whilst the paperwork involved in making a claim for damage caused by a pothole is more trouble than its worth.

[Fastpedeller]

Antony Moxey said:

paul_c123 said:

No need to swerve, if you're looking at the road ahead properly. If indeed the potholes are so bad that it renders a single carriageway into, effectively, a single track road, then a massive reduction in speed and appropriate use of the horn at blind bends, would be my approach.

Since an accident didn't happen though, no worries.

So do you think, if while driving along quite happily minding your own business, you suddenly see a very deep pothole in front of you you wouldn't swerve? You'd just plough through thinking there might be something coming the other way so you shouldn't swerve to avoid it? I expect you'll come back with something about observation, but if you don't know there's one there, you won't be looking for it, nor would you temper your speed just in case.

It's easy for some to say 'just stop', but the situation may not lend itself easily to that - what if there's a vehicle following you too closely? It can be a case of 'total risk mitigation'. As an example we were travelling along the M11 last year and there were some horrendous craters - to completely avoid any danger would have meant slowing to about 30MPH, and doing that on a motorway would significantly increase the hazard to everyone. As it was we reduced speed to 50MPH (any slower would have presented a hazard), but we were able to see and swerve to an extent to minimise the risk. Aside from slowing to walking pace at every blind bend, it's impossible to cater for all pothole potential.

[OutInTheShed]

Antony Moxey said:

So do you think, if while driving along quite happily minding your own business, you suddenly see a very deep pothole in front of you you wouldn't swerve? You'd just plough through thinking there might be something coming the other way so you shouldn't swerve to avoid it? I expect you'll come back with something about observation, but if you don't know there's one there, you won't be looking for it, nor would you temper your speed just in case.

You need to be aware of other road users.
You need to look far enough ahead for the speed you are doing.

Sometimes you can steer around a pothole, sometimes you need to brake.
Some back roads around here, it's quite normal to slow, to allow opposing traffic to pass the pothole, then you can steer around it.

Maybe you need to stop 'happily minding your own business' and become more aware of your surroundings and other road users?

[FiF]

Or it's dark and raining hard, how do you differentiate between a pothole full of water and just a bit of standing water?

[paul_c123]

Drive to the conditions.

[E-bmw]

Antony Moxey said:

paul_c123 said:

No need to swerve, if you're looking at the road ahead properly. If indeed the potholes are so bad that it renders a single carriageway into, effectively, a single track road, then a massive reduction in speed and appropriate use of the horn at blind bends, would be my approach.

Since an accident didn't happen though, no worries.

So do you think, if while driving along quite happily minding your own business, you suddenly see a very deep pothole in front of you you wouldn't swerve? You'd just plough through thinking there might be something coming the other way so you shouldn't swerve to avoid it? I expect you'll come back with something about observation, but if you don't know there's one there, you won't be looking for it, nor would you temper your speed just in case.

No, that is not what the poster said, I suggest you read it again.

[Antony Moxey]

paul_c123 said:

Antony Moxey said:

So do you think, if while driving along quite happily minding your own business, you suddenly see a very deep pothole in front of you you wouldn't swerve? You'd just plough through thinking there might be something coming the other way so you shouldn't swerve to avoid it? I expect you'll come back with something about observation, but if you don't know there's one there, you won't be looking for it, nor would you temper your speed just in case.

You've answered the question there. Nothing should "suddenly" be seen.

I'd temper my speed if I didn't know there WASN'T a pothole coming up. And given the state of the country roads in the areas of discussion, I'd be keeping my speed down both to help see/judge things better, and to make any required slowings down or avoiding manoeuvres not sudden.

If you're ploughing on at/near the max speed limit, hoping to slam on the brakes if/when you see something you need to avoid, its the wrong approach and its only a matter of time before you're caught out.

Why the extremes? Who's talking about max speed and slamming on brakes? I'm pretty attentive to road conditions but some potholes you genuinely don't see until the last minute, especially if it's raining and the pothole's flooded. Do you drive at 5mph when it's raining just in case the wet road surface is hiding inches deep holes?