Dealership paying Autowatch Ghost Immobilizer costs
Discussion
Hi All
Newbie here. Apologies for the length of my post! I have a BMW M5 F90 Model and would really appreciate any advice or guidance in terms of attempting to recover costs with a main BMW Dealership where I have had to uninstall and reinstall the Autowatch Ghost immobilizer via a 3rd party. My BMW M5 earlier this year on 2 occasions produced a drivetrain error alert (as well as the main engine management light appearing). This was specifically when in M1 mode. The error resulted in a significant loss of power & caused the car to be almost undriveable.
I took the car into the main BMW Dealership garage to get it checked. The Garage stated "Carried out investigation into Drivetrain light in M1 - Ghost fitted to the vehicle is interfering with M1 button showing the drivetrain and misfiring - customer to remove Ghost and retest"
I subsequently followed this up with Autowatch and the Ghost installation team who categorically stated that the Ghost would have no impact regarding the errors above. Reading several online articles on such errors, unless the Ghost had not been installed correctly or there were issues with the software (in both cases this was not the case), and the fact it is on the CAN Bus Network, it is extremely unlikely that this was the cause of the errors.
However, as the BMW Garage could not investigate/re-test due to the Ghost, I subsequently (& reluctantly) removed the Ghost Immobilizer.
I had the car booked in for a major service immediately after the above had occurred (with the Ghost Immobilizer now removed) and requested that this was re-tested and to confirm to see if the errors would no longer occur. The major service was done as well as a vehicle check performed at a significant cost of £1k+. The garage confirmed that there were no issues with the vehicle and everything is working as expected.
Upon leaving the garage putting the car into M1 mode. The drivetrain/engine light error re-appeared again. This was without the Ghost Immobilizer fitted.
The next day, I then contacted the Garage requesting support and the garage stated they would perform some remote diagnostics on the car. The garage confirmed from the remote diagnostics that this was a faulty spark plug on "cylinder 2" causing these errors. I subsequently visited the garage and had the spark plug replaced without being charged. Over the last week I have not experienced any issues when in M1 mode.
I will now be needing to re-install the Ghost Immobilizer. I have basically requested that the BMW Dealership repay back the full ghost service costs (£470) + the initial check they did (£150).. Unfortunately the dealership after sending a note to them have said they are not willing to pay, replying "When you brought the vehicle in on 19th February, the technician’s diagnosis was made based on the information and symptoms available at that point. Due to the presence of the non-BMW approved Ghost Immobiliser, we were unable to complete further diagnostic work or reach a conclusive determination without its removal. As a franchised BMW dealership, we are obligated to follow BMW UK’s diagnostic guidelines, which state that any non-approved aftermarket devices—especially those connected to the vehicle’s CAN bus—must be removed before a definitive diagnosis can be made. This is to ensure accuracy and compliance with BMW’s approved procedures. I fully understand your frustration in having removed and now planning to reinstall the Ghost Immobiliser at additional cost. However, I must respectfully advise that Sytner BMW cannot accept liability for these expenses. The decision to remove the immobiliser was necessary for diagnostic clarity and carried out in line with manufacturer standards. Unfortunately, until this step was taken, we were unable to conduct any additional investigations."
I believe that there has been a clear incorrect prognosis of this fault (i.e. blaming the ghost) and that on both occasions that I have taken the vehicle that no sufficient and appropriate diagnosis or resolution was carried out. Based on the reply from the garage, I'd welcome any advice or guidance (I simply don't know enough about M1-Mode/Engine management systems/DME/CAN Bus Networks!) & if there is any correlation between them & if I have a sufficient enough case/evidence (particularly as this is a "non BMW approved aftermarket device) to take this further either via the small claims courts or the motor ombudsman to reclaim my ghost service costs at the very least!
Newbie here. Apologies for the length of my post! I have a BMW M5 F90 Model and would really appreciate any advice or guidance in terms of attempting to recover costs with a main BMW Dealership where I have had to uninstall and reinstall the Autowatch Ghost immobilizer via a 3rd party. My BMW M5 earlier this year on 2 occasions produced a drivetrain error alert (as well as the main engine management light appearing). This was specifically when in M1 mode. The error resulted in a significant loss of power & caused the car to be almost undriveable.
I took the car into the main BMW Dealership garage to get it checked. The Garage stated "Carried out investigation into Drivetrain light in M1 - Ghost fitted to the vehicle is interfering with M1 button showing the drivetrain and misfiring - customer to remove Ghost and retest"
I subsequently followed this up with Autowatch and the Ghost installation team who categorically stated that the Ghost would have no impact regarding the errors above. Reading several online articles on such errors, unless the Ghost had not been installed correctly or there were issues with the software (in both cases this was not the case), and the fact it is on the CAN Bus Network, it is extremely unlikely that this was the cause of the errors.
However, as the BMW Garage could not investigate/re-test due to the Ghost, I subsequently (& reluctantly) removed the Ghost Immobilizer.
I had the car booked in for a major service immediately after the above had occurred (with the Ghost Immobilizer now removed) and requested that this was re-tested and to confirm to see if the errors would no longer occur. The major service was done as well as a vehicle check performed at a significant cost of £1k+. The garage confirmed that there were no issues with the vehicle and everything is working as expected.
Upon leaving the garage putting the car into M1 mode. The drivetrain/engine light error re-appeared again. This was without the Ghost Immobilizer fitted.
The next day, I then contacted the Garage requesting support and the garage stated they would perform some remote diagnostics on the car. The garage confirmed from the remote diagnostics that this was a faulty spark plug on "cylinder 2" causing these errors. I subsequently visited the garage and had the spark plug replaced without being charged. Over the last week I have not experienced any issues when in M1 mode.
I will now be needing to re-install the Ghost Immobilizer. I have basically requested that the BMW Dealership repay back the full ghost service costs (£470) + the initial check they did (£150).. Unfortunately the dealership after sending a note to them have said they are not willing to pay, replying "When you brought the vehicle in on 19th February, the technician’s diagnosis was made based on the information and symptoms available at that point. Due to the presence of the non-BMW approved Ghost Immobiliser, we were unable to complete further diagnostic work or reach a conclusive determination without its removal. As a franchised BMW dealership, we are obligated to follow BMW UK’s diagnostic guidelines, which state that any non-approved aftermarket devices—especially those connected to the vehicle’s CAN bus—must be removed before a definitive diagnosis can be made. This is to ensure accuracy and compliance with BMW’s approved procedures. I fully understand your frustration in having removed and now planning to reinstall the Ghost Immobiliser at additional cost. However, I must respectfully advise that Sytner BMW cannot accept liability for these expenses. The decision to remove the immobiliser was necessary for diagnostic clarity and carried out in line with manufacturer standards. Unfortunately, until this step was taken, we were unable to conduct any additional investigations."
I believe that there has been a clear incorrect prognosis of this fault (i.e. blaming the ghost) and that on both occasions that I have taken the vehicle that no sufficient and appropriate diagnosis or resolution was carried out. Based on the reply from the garage, I'd welcome any advice or guidance (I simply don't know enough about M1-Mode/Engine management systems/DME/CAN Bus Networks!) & if there is any correlation between them & if I have a sufficient enough case/evidence (particularly as this is a "non BMW approved aftermarket device) to take this further either via the small claims courts or the motor ombudsman to reclaim my ghost service costs at the very least!
sdhar2802 said:
Hi All
Newbie here. Apologies for the length of my post! I have a BMW M5 F90 Model and would really appreciate any advice or guidance in terms of attempting to recover costs with a main BMW Dealership where I have had to uninstall and reinstall the Autowatch Ghost immobilizer via a 3rd party. My BMW M5 earlier this year on 2 occasions produced a drivetrain error alert (as well as the main engine management light appearing). This was specifically when in M1 mode. The error resulted in a significant loss of power & caused the car to be almost undriveable.
I took the car into the main BMW Dealership garage to get it checked. The Garage stated "Carried out investigation into Drivetrain light in M1 - Ghost fitted to the vehicle is interfering with M1 button showing the drivetrain and misfiring - customer to remove Ghost and retest"
I subsequently followed this up with Autowatch and the Ghost installation team who categorically stated that the Ghost would have no impact regarding the errors above. Reading several online articles on such errors, unless the Ghost had not been installed correctly or there were issues with the software (in both cases this was not the case), and the fact it is on the CAN Bus Network, it is extremely unlikely that this was the cause of the errors.
However, as the BMW Garage could not investigate/re-test due to the Ghost, I subsequently (& reluctantly) removed the Ghost Immobilizer.
I had the car booked in for a major service immediately after the above had occurred (with the Ghost Immobilizer now removed) and requested that this was re-tested and to confirm to see if the errors would no longer occur. The major service was done as well as a vehicle check performed at a significant cost of £1k+. The garage confirmed that there were no issues with the vehicle and everything is working as expected.
Upon leaving the garage putting the car into M1 mode. The drivetrain/engine light error re-appeared again. This was without the Ghost Immobilizer fitted.
The next day, I then contacted the Garage requesting support and the garage stated they would perform some remote diagnostics on the car. The garage confirmed from the remote diagnostics that this was a faulty spark plug on "cylinder 2" causing these errors. I subsequently visited the garage and had the spark plug replaced without being charged. Over the last week I have not experienced any issues when in M1 mode.
I will now be needing to re-install the Ghost Immobilizer. I have basically requested that the BMW Dealership repay back the full ghost service costs (£470) + the initial check they did (£150).. Unfortunately the dealership after sending a note to them have said they are not willing to pay, replying "When you brought the vehicle in on 19th February, the technician’s diagnosis was made based on the information and symptoms available at that point. Due to the presence of the non-BMW approved Ghost Immobiliser, we were unable to complete further diagnostic work or reach a conclusive determination without its removal. As a franchised BMW dealership, we are obligated to follow BMW UK’s diagnostic guidelines, which state that any non-approved aftermarket devices—especially those connected to the vehicle’s CAN bus—must be removed before a definitive diagnosis can be made. This is to ensure accuracy and compliance with BMW’s approved procedures. I fully understand your frustration in having removed and now planning to reinstall the Ghost Immobiliser at additional cost. However, I must respectfully advise that Sytner BMW cannot accept liability for these expenses. The decision to remove the immobiliser was necessary for diagnostic clarity and carried out in line with manufacturer standards. Unfortunately, until this step was taken, we were unable to conduct any additional investigations."
I believe that there has been a clear incorrect prognosis of this fault (i.e. blaming the ghost) and that on both occasions that I have taken the vehicle that no sufficient and appropriate diagnosis or resolution was carried out. Based on the reply from the garage, I'd welcome any advice or guidance (I simply don't know enough about M1-Mode/Engine management systems/DME/CAN Bus Networks!) & if there is any correlation between them & if I have a sufficient enough case/evidence (particularly as this is a "non BMW approved aftermarket device) to take this further either via the small claims courts or the motor ombudsman to reclaim my ghost service costs at the very least!
If I’ve read your post correctly, both the original fault and the second fault could not have been caused by the spark plug in cylinder number 2 because the spark plugs would have been changed during a major service in between the two instances (or they haven’t been changed/you haven’t had a major service carried out). Newbie here. Apologies for the length of my post! I have a BMW M5 F90 Model and would really appreciate any advice or guidance in terms of attempting to recover costs with a main BMW Dealership where I have had to uninstall and reinstall the Autowatch Ghost immobilizer via a 3rd party. My BMW M5 earlier this year on 2 occasions produced a drivetrain error alert (as well as the main engine management light appearing). This was specifically when in M1 mode. The error resulted in a significant loss of power & caused the car to be almost undriveable.
I took the car into the main BMW Dealership garage to get it checked. The Garage stated "Carried out investigation into Drivetrain light in M1 - Ghost fitted to the vehicle is interfering with M1 button showing the drivetrain and misfiring - customer to remove Ghost and retest"
I subsequently followed this up with Autowatch and the Ghost installation team who categorically stated that the Ghost would have no impact regarding the errors above. Reading several online articles on such errors, unless the Ghost had not been installed correctly or there were issues with the software (in both cases this was not the case), and the fact it is on the CAN Bus Network, it is extremely unlikely that this was the cause of the errors.
However, as the BMW Garage could not investigate/re-test due to the Ghost, I subsequently (& reluctantly) removed the Ghost Immobilizer.
I had the car booked in for a major service immediately after the above had occurred (with the Ghost Immobilizer now removed) and requested that this was re-tested and to confirm to see if the errors would no longer occur. The major service was done as well as a vehicle check performed at a significant cost of £1k+. The garage confirmed that there were no issues with the vehicle and everything is working as expected.
Upon leaving the garage putting the car into M1 mode. The drivetrain/engine light error re-appeared again. This was without the Ghost Immobilizer fitted.
The next day, I then contacted the Garage requesting support and the garage stated they would perform some remote diagnostics on the car. The garage confirmed from the remote diagnostics that this was a faulty spark plug on "cylinder 2" causing these errors. I subsequently visited the garage and had the spark plug replaced without being charged. Over the last week I have not experienced any issues when in M1 mode.
I will now be needing to re-install the Ghost Immobilizer. I have basically requested that the BMW Dealership repay back the full ghost service costs (£470) + the initial check they did (£150).. Unfortunately the dealership after sending a note to them have said they are not willing to pay, replying "When you brought the vehicle in on 19th February, the technician’s diagnosis was made based on the information and symptoms available at that point. Due to the presence of the non-BMW approved Ghost Immobiliser, we were unable to complete further diagnostic work or reach a conclusive determination without its removal. As a franchised BMW dealership, we are obligated to follow BMW UK’s diagnostic guidelines, which state that any non-approved aftermarket devices—especially those connected to the vehicle’s CAN bus—must be removed before a definitive diagnosis can be made. This is to ensure accuracy and compliance with BMW’s approved procedures. I fully understand your frustration in having removed and now planning to reinstall the Ghost Immobiliser at additional cost. However, I must respectfully advise that Sytner BMW cannot accept liability for these expenses. The decision to remove the immobiliser was necessary for diagnostic clarity and carried out in line with manufacturer standards. Unfortunately, until this step was taken, we were unable to conduct any additional investigations."
I believe that there has been a clear incorrect prognosis of this fault (i.e. blaming the ghost) and that on both occasions that I have taken the vehicle that no sufficient and appropriate diagnosis or resolution was carried out. Based on the reply from the garage, I'd welcome any advice or guidance (I simply don't know enough about M1-Mode/Engine management systems/DME/CAN Bus Networks!) & if there is any correlation between them & if I have a sufficient enough case/evidence (particularly as this is a "non BMW approved aftermarket device) to take this further either via the small claims courts or the motor ombudsman to reclaim my ghost service costs at the very least!
It’s obviously unlikely that the Ghost has anything to do with the fault & I know the Ghost is a great bit of kit but I’ve read of/heard of many issues where BMW get awkward once they realise one is fitted to a car they’ve manufactured. This put me off getting one fitted myself. I really don’t think you have any hope of recovering the Ghost associated cost unfortunately.
Hope I’m wrong.
Many thanks for the response. It was a major service that was done and you are correct, as that was the reply back from the garage, where they stated "Regarding the recent spark plug replacement, I would like to clarify that this component was fitted during the major service on 16th April 2025. Unfortunately, the spark plug installed in cylinder 2 during that service was found to be faulty, and we replaced it free of charge as part of our service commitment to you. It is important to note, however, that this spark plug was not present in the vehicle during your earlier visit on 19th February 2025. As such, it could not have contributed to or been the cause of the drivetrain and engine warning issues you experienced at that time.
The irony now is I took it for a spin today and the drivetrain error has re-appeared again in M1 Mode!!! - No Ghost Immobilizer..so annoying
The irony now is I took it for a spin today and the drivetrain error has re-appeared again in M1 Mode!!! - No Ghost Immobilizer..so annoying
They're not liable for reinstallation costs.
Everything that happened involving the immobiliser was your choice and ultimately took place on your terms.
That they said they couldn't do warranty work with the immobiliser in place might possibly have been open to challenge, but you chose to do as instructed instead. No judgement on that here, but it was your call.
Everything that happened involving the immobiliser was your choice and ultimately took place on your terms.
That they said they couldn't do warranty work with the immobiliser in place might possibly have been open to challenge, but you chose to do as instructed instead. No judgement on that here, but it was your call.
chrisch77 said:
Terminator X said:
How did the garage even know it had Ghost installed? Undetectable afaik.
TX.
Because they wouldn’t be able to start the engine without using the ghost procedure advised by the OP?TX.
OP might have forgotten to activate it.
Sytner's stance on it is reasonable and understandable imo. Modifications always add variables to vehicle diagnosis, and often lead technicians down rabbit holes, so its best to remove said variable out of the equation and start from a clean sheet.
As the owner of the vehicle, modifications are your responsibility therefore making you liable for any associated removal/refitting costs, not the dealership, BMW or the warranty company.
My car has a Ghost on it (via previous owner) and it absolutely would void any electronic/electrical related warranty claims, so I opted to bin off the warranty rather than removing the Ghost.
Chalk it up to experience and move on.
As the owner of the vehicle, modifications are your responsibility therefore making you liable for any associated removal/refitting costs, not the dealership, BMW or the warranty company.
My car has a Ghost on it (via previous owner) and it absolutely would void any electronic/electrical related warranty claims, so I opted to bin off the warranty rather than removing the Ghost.
Chalk it up to experience and move on.
sdhar2802 said:
Many thanks for the response. It was a major service that was done and you are correct, as that was the reply back from the garage, where they stated "Regarding the recent spark plug replacement, I would like to clarify that this component was fitted during the major service on 16th April 2025. Unfortunately, the spark plug installed in cylinder 2 during that service was found to be faulty, and we replaced it free of charge as part of our service commitment to you. It is important to note, however, that this spark plug was not present in the vehicle during your earlier visit on 19th February 2025. As such, it could not have contributed to or been the cause of the drivetrain and engine warning issues you experienced at that time.
The irony now is I took it for a spin today and the drivetrain error has re-appeared again in M1 Mode!!! - No Ghost Immobilizer..so annoying
Obviously not the Ghost in that case, take it back until they sort it. The irony now is I took it for a spin today and the drivetrain error has re-appeared again in M1 Mode!!! - No Ghost Immobilizer..so annoying
this is the reason I ditched the BMW Warranty (as its sorns and not driving the car) and they will void any warranty claim if you put an air fresher in there!
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