What’s happened to Rioja?
Discussion
Rioja red, specifically. Way back, and I mean way back, a reserva or gran reserva, was well oaked and I used to love wallowing in all that silky vanilla. Now all that distinctiveness has gone.
Are winemakers now producing ‘better’ wine because the received wisdom is ‘oak is bad’? Or…?
And can someone recommend me a good, old-fashioned Rioja of the type I really miss?
Are winemakers now producing ‘better’ wine because the received wisdom is ‘oak is bad’? Or…?
And can someone recommend me a good, old-fashioned Rioja of the type I really miss?
Perhaps Lopez de Heredia Viña Tondonia Red Reserva.
-Definitely old school. Some find this style thin and tannic, others delight in it's smokey delicacy.
Tannins are "firm" so decanting and serving at a sensible temperature help, also waiting until it's at least 20 years old, preferably much more.
You might try their (Lopez de Heredia) Bosconia. A bit less austere than the above and drinks better at a relatively young age.
-La Rioja Alta
890 Gran Reserva. Pricey (c.£160) Quite excellent and sounds like the style you are after.
904 Gran Reserva. One of the World's great wines IMO. Others have worked this out and prices have doubled in the last 5 years.
Viña Ardanza ~ Reserva. Again it has doubled in price as it's fame spreads! But available in the UK and worth a try. Still represents excellent value, an exceptional wine at the price.
I don't think C.V.N.E (Cune) or 'Riscal are making wines in the style you prefer? Never say never.
-Definitely old school. Some find this style thin and tannic, others delight in it's smokey delicacy.
Tannins are "firm" so decanting and serving at a sensible temperature help, also waiting until it's at least 20 years old, preferably much more.
You might try their (Lopez de Heredia) Bosconia. A bit less austere than the above and drinks better at a relatively young age.
-La Rioja Alta
890 Gran Reserva. Pricey (c.£160) Quite excellent and sounds like the style you are after.
904 Gran Reserva. One of the World's great wines IMO. Others have worked this out and prices have doubled in the last 5 years.
Viña Ardanza ~ Reserva. Again it has doubled in price as it's fame spreads! But available in the UK and worth a try. Still represents excellent value, an exceptional wine at the price.
I don't think C.V.N.E (Cune) or 'Riscal are making wines in the style you prefer? Never say never.
Maxym said:
Rioja red, specifically. Way back, and I mean way back, a reserva or gran reserva, was well oaked and I used to love wallowing in all that silky vanilla. Now all that distinctiveness has gone.
Are winemakers now producing ‘better’ wine because the received wisdom is ‘oak is bad’? Or…?
And can someone recommend me a good, old-fashioned Rioja of the type I really miss?
It's been a while (20yrs) since I visited Marques de Caceres for a few days as part of a trade visit.Are winemakers now producing ‘better’ wine because the received wisdom is ‘oak is bad’? Or…?
And can someone recommend me a good, old-fashioned Rioja of the type I really miss?
The Bodegas AIUI draw wine from multiple small producers, and there has been a tendency for some time for the different houses to declare Reservas and Gran Reservas, for marketing purposes rather than anything about the quality of the year's harvest.
They were quite sniffy about this - not sure if they have followed suit since however.
M11rph said:
-La Rioja Alta
890 Gran Reserva. Pricey (c.£160) Quite excellent and sounds like the style you are after.
904 Gran Reserva. One of the World's great wines IMO. Others have worked this out and prices have doubled in the last 5 years.
Viña Ardanza ~ Reserva. Again it has doubled in price as it's fame spreads! But available in the UK and worth a try. Still represents excellent value, an exceptional wine at the price.
890 Gran Reserva. Pricey (c.£160) Quite excellent and sounds like the style you are after.
904 Gran Reserva. One of the World's great wines IMO. Others have worked this out and prices have doubled in the last 5 years.
Viña Ardanza ~ Reserva. Again it has doubled in price as it's fame spreads! But available in the UK and worth a try. Still represents excellent value, an exceptional wine at the price.
They all crackers, but Ardanza is still a bit of a bargain for the quality and occasionally available in halves, magnums, and larger (I picked up a couple of double magnums on BBR's BBX platform a year or so ago and try to keep halves in for midweek treats - sadly just about run out!).
tgr said:
What's happened? Climate change and cleaner wineries I think, leading to higher alcohol and riper fruit
For sure. I think modern viticultural and winemaking practices will satisfy customer demand for 'cleaner', 'smoother', fruit driven wines.I can see where the OP is coming from though. You'd think the one area where the oaky old fashioned style would persist would be Rioja, given the classification rules dictate minimum times in oak and then bottles before release.
Another +1 for La Rioja Alta - they really are a blast from the past as far as style is concerned. Really 'savoury'. Just the ticket for a salty and herby barbecued leg of lamb, olives, tomatoes etc.
I suspect it is a younger generation of winemakers coming through trying to make more balanced wines for easier drinking, with less new oak. Climate has changed too, so they are having to work around this and attempting to keep the ABV at a sensible level.
You could look at Priorat, where some pretty substantial meaty wines are produced.
You could look at Priorat, where some pretty substantial meaty wines are produced.
Nickols & Perks have trad style pre 2010 rioja to go at > https://nickollsandperks.com/c/wines/spain/filters...
Edited by Regbuser on Thursday 1st May 22:03
Johnson897210 said:
Good recommendation. Difficult to think of any red wine better than that for £18. I'd rather that than 2 bottles of characterless supermarket ribena.Muga are pretty old school as are CVNE and both significantly more affordable than La Rioja Alta
Not Rioja but have you tried the italian Appassimento or Primitivo wines? Strong and deep tastes as a result of the grapes being allowed to sit on the vine for a little longer, drying out a little, before they are made into the wine. I used to love Rioja but these are better imo.
Give them a shot a tell us what you think.
Give them a shot a tell us what you think.
I agree with OP, and I find the sort of depth he's after in wines from the Balkans and Georgia these days.
Waitrose have a decent Primitivo from North Macedonia at the moment (labelled "Wanderwyld for some inexplicable, but probably only marketing related reason).
I'm talking wines under £10 here though, not the £160 (
) suggested above.
Look for some Georgian Saperavi for example. Delicious and ridiculously cheap for the flavour and quality.
Waitrose have a decent Primitivo from North Macedonia at the moment (labelled "Wanderwyld for some inexplicable, but probably only marketing related reason).
I'm talking wines under £10 here though, not the £160 (
) suggested above.Look for some Georgian Saperavi for example. Delicious and ridiculously cheap for the flavour and quality.
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