Legality of Closing a Motorway Junction
Discussion
Just wondering if anyone has any advice.
My friend operates recovery firm right next to a motorway junction. The council have responsibility for the access road and roundabout for the junction and his business access and the slip roads are National Highways. He relies on access to motorway his business is yards from the junction. Talks have been ongoing about the road since 2019 but the council would never discuss the works, only they had or were devising a plan. Worth noting quite a few business are located in this park due to proximity to the motorway.
The road is old concrete and is bad need of renewal, this has been on the cards since 2019, however the council was awarded funding in 2020 around covid. From what I can find out the council which has gone through mergers have just sat on their hands about doing the works and now they have had the funding 5 Years, Central Gov have threatened to withdraw the monies if the works are not completed soon.
Fast forward to late April this year the council announced they will close the entire junction for 14 weeks! In June! Bit of a shock! Added to which NH have confirmed they would not run such works in peak summer season as its very busy tourist area.
There has been no discussion with the Town council no consultation, bus/coach operators have no response and have suggested services will be cancelled till at least Sept 25.
Its causing quite a concern for businesses and local residents, added to which the diversion to the next town has gas main renewals in June 25 when the works commence.
They are using a runaway specialist to do the road as they will break out concrete, crush and screen it back for use as sub base etc.
Does anyone know if the council have acted unlawfully by not holding a consultation?
My friend operates recovery firm right next to a motorway junction. The council have responsibility for the access road and roundabout for the junction and his business access and the slip roads are National Highways. He relies on access to motorway his business is yards from the junction. Talks have been ongoing about the road since 2019 but the council would never discuss the works, only they had or were devising a plan. Worth noting quite a few business are located in this park due to proximity to the motorway.
The road is old concrete and is bad need of renewal, this has been on the cards since 2019, however the council was awarded funding in 2020 around covid. From what I can find out the council which has gone through mergers have just sat on their hands about doing the works and now they have had the funding 5 Years, Central Gov have threatened to withdraw the monies if the works are not completed soon.
Fast forward to late April this year the council announced they will close the entire junction for 14 weeks! In June! Bit of a shock! Added to which NH have confirmed they would not run such works in peak summer season as its very busy tourist area.
There has been no discussion with the Town council no consultation, bus/coach operators have no response and have suggested services will be cancelled till at least Sept 25.
Its causing quite a concern for businesses and local residents, added to which the diversion to the next town has gas main renewals in June 25 when the works commence.
They are using a runaway specialist to do the road as they will break out concrete, crush and screen it back for use as sub base etc.
Does anyone know if the council have acted unlawfully by not holding a consultation?
Edited by James.Pond on Thursday 22 May 08:50
Hi James - do you have a "license to gill?".
I know where you are taling about - I live just down the road on the A38 - its going to be an "intersting" summer!
The council's stand is "we have to do it in the summer as the council gritters need access to their depot in the winter". So basically, f
k everyone else, gritters win (like it would be less of an operation to move the grit temporarily? instead of closing a whole junction for 3 months - at least, during the peakiest peak season for traffic).
I know where you are taling about - I live just down the road on the A38 - its going to be an "intersting" summer!
The council's stand is "we have to do it in the summer as the council gritters need access to their depot in the winter". So basically, f
k everyone else, gritters win (like it would be less of an operation to move the grit temporarily? instead of closing a whole junction for 3 months - at least, during the peakiest peak season for traffic).Griffith4ever said:
Hi James - do you have a "license to gill?".
I know where you are taling about - I live just down the road on the A38 - its going to be an "intersting" summer!
The council's stand is "we have to do it in the summer as the council gritters need access to their depot in the winter". So basically, fk everyone else, gritters win (like it would be less of an operation to move the grit temporarily? instead of closing a whole junction for 3 months - at least, during the peakiest peak season for traffic).
I know the depot its one of the larger ones and for area its key the Central One. Its nothing to do with that as they have to maintain access for N Highways anyway, they have maintenance and response contractors and kit at the depot who have to deploy to incidents and cyclitic maintenance, Gully Suckers, Verge cutting, debris clearance the list goes on! The motorway verge cutting contractors uses it as well in summer. The bulk of the works are done in the summer as they aren't gritting!!I know where you are taling about - I live just down the road on the A38 - its going to be an "intersting" summer!
The council's stand is "we have to do it in the summer as the council gritters need access to their depot in the winter". So basically, f
k everyone else, gritters win (like it would be less of an operation to move the grit temporarily? instead of closing a whole junction for 3 months - at least, during the peakiest peak season for traffic).Finally there about half dozen traffic officers and an outstation for the traffic officer service there again they will be allowed access on and off, I don't think they would accept the diversion unless they use the services access but that's going to delay response.
There is a large salt barn onsite and about 5-6 gritters from memory.
That's just the council trying to cover the fact they have not planned this in 5 years, in my opinion, then central goc have threatened to pull funding and that's why this has been thrust on people with little to no notice.
Edited by James.Pond on Thursday 22 May 08:50
If it's just a like for like replacement, no significant changes to layout or add ons they'll probably not need to do a consultation.
I'd be asking them what their plan is to allow businesses to still function in the area though, you make it sound like everyone in the park has to shut up shop for the period?
I'd be asking them what their plan is to allow businesses to still function in the area though, you make it sound like everyone in the park has to shut up shop for the period?
Altitude said:
If it's just a like for like replacement, no significant changes to layout or add ons they'll probably not need to do a consultation.
I'd be asking them what their plan is to allow businesses to still function in the area though, you make it sound like everyone in the park has to shut up shop for the period?
In terms of coach services they have provided no alternative and they say the council is not responding which tallies with my contact in the town council.I'd be asking them what their plan is to allow businesses to still function in the area though, you make it sound like everyone in the park has to shut up shop for the period?
No they are providing no access to the motorway for any businesses, the access for the business park will be a one way under lights to a roundabout and about 12 mile please detour to the next junction. This will pick up A roads and will send some traffic to the gas main works in June or the opposite direction into the next county to pick up the next junction.
There has been no clarity or response on how it will work.
Edited by James.Pond on Thursday 22 May 11:10
So they've identified a suitable alternative route? Noting that it's inconvenient and likely to get barmed up when the gas works are happening.
One alternative might be for the council to make some concessions for him to park his recovery vehicles near the next open junction? He can argue that without this his vehicles will be significantly contributing to the congestion.
Sure it's not ideal as he's still got the 12 miles at the start and end of shift, but it helps in terms of placing his vehicles in a better position and potentially saving some driver hours.
One alternative might be for the council to make some concessions for him to park his recovery vehicles near the next open junction? He can argue that without this his vehicles will be significantly contributing to the congestion.
Sure it's not ideal as he's still got the 12 miles at the start and end of shift, but it helps in terms of placing his vehicles in a better position and potentially saving some driver hours.
donkmeister said:
So they've identified a suitable alternative route? Noting that it's inconvenient and likely to get barmed up when the gas works are happening.
One alternative might be for the council to make some concessions for him to park his recovery vehicles near the next open junction? He can argue that without this his vehicles will be significantly contributing to the congestion.
Sure it's not ideal as he's still got the 12 miles at the start and end of shift, but it helps in terms of placing his vehicles in a better position and potentially saving some driver hours.
Pretty much this. The only other thing I could think of is finding out if your friend has a contract with the National Highways recovery scheme and could contact them to see if he can add on to their outstations pass.One alternative might be for the council to make some concessions for him to park his recovery vehicles near the next open junction? He can argue that without this his vehicles will be significantly contributing to the congestion.
Sure it's not ideal as he's still got the 12 miles at the start and end of shift, but it helps in terms of placing his vehicles in a better position and potentially saving some driver hours.
Not 121 applicable but businesses do not have the right to passing trade etc is the normal line used when businesses complain about road closures. The council will likely argue that the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few in this case and businesses should reasonably expect that roads will on occasion be closed for works to be completed.
In general as long as the council offers a suitable diversion then there isn’t much anyone can do about it.
It may be worth your friend speaking to their insurance as sometimes they offer some cover.
In general as long as the council offers a suitable diversion then there isn’t much anyone can do about it.
It may be worth your friend speaking to their insurance as sometimes they offer some cover.
A few years ago some major roadworks in the town left a few businesses cut off. Shops not industrial. The shopowners were compensated by the council for loss of trade. I am not sure of th3 level of compensation but it might be worth investigating.
It might also be compared to the the Scottish fertries being subsidised on ticket prices to help traffic that would otherwise have had long detours. The Scottish Parliament cock up with ferry replacement was the cause.
It might also be compared to the the Scottish fertries being subsidised on ticket prices to help traffic that would otherwise have had long detours. The Scottish Parliament cock up with ferry replacement was the cause.
Tigerj said:
Not 121 applicable but businesses do not have the right to passing trade etc is the normal line used when businesses complain about road closures. The council will likely argue that the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few in this case and businesses should reasonably expect that roads will on occasion be closed for works to be completed.
In general as long as the council offers a suitable diversion then there isn’t much anyone can do about it.
It may be worth your friend speaking to their insurance as sometimes they offer some cover.
They argument is they have scheduled gas main upgrades on part of the diversion in the same county.In general as long as the council offers a suitable diversion then there isn’t much anyone can do about it.
It may be worth your friend speaking to their insurance as sometimes they offer some cover.
The council also have no plans of how the access road to the main roundabout, under lights.1 way, on the road they need to renew.
darreni said:
It's not the Wellington junction on the M5 is it? They are doing similar there, much to the frustration of locals & businesses. It does need redoing though.
It is indeed. I have to say, I'm not sure why is "needs doing" tbh - its concrete, so lasts, and its not exactly long.They are funneling West Bluckland and beyond out past the Worlds End. Hillarious doedn't even start to cover that..... oh, and the only other option, is out by the garden centre. Its going to be a fun summer ;-)
James.Pond said:
They argument is they have scheduled gas main upgrades on part of the diversion in the same county.
The council also have no plans of how the access road to the main roundabout, under lights.1 way, on the road they need to renew.
If they have no plans on how to keep properties accessible your friend may have something. He’s a little unfortunate as a business owner he will have less support than a residential property. But, I’d imagine that the highways act would be a good place to start looking. The council also have no plans of how the access road to the main roundabout, under lights.1 way, on the road they need to renew.
Some times you can get some good ideas by trawling through ombudsman decisions To see what they are saying even if not upheld they will normally give hints to the correct Legislation. https://www.lgo.org.uk/decisions/transport-and-hig...
The council will publish an alternative route which is going to be very inconvenient given junctions are far apart on that stretch.
I know of a business who was forced to close operations for nearly a year during the A417 work and was compensated for loss of business by NH but they had no access available so had to close down for the duration of the works.
I’m reading here I think you still have access but your route to access the M5 is now less convenient as you need to join at other junctions than the issue being local access. I’m not sure you’ll get much luck from the council as they seem more concerned about gritting Lorrie’s not having to drive a diversion than businesses being affected. Tough one as you’d probably be eligible if NH works.
I know of a business who was forced to close operations for nearly a year during the A417 work and was compensated for loss of business by NH but they had no access available so had to close down for the duration of the works.
I’m reading here I think you still have access but your route to access the M5 is now less convenient as you need to join at other junctions than the issue being local access. I’m not sure you’ll get much luck from the council as they seem more concerned about gritting Lorrie’s not having to drive a diversion than businesses being affected. Tough one as you’d probably be eligible if NH works.
TonyF1 said:
The council will publish an alternative route which is going to be very inconvenient given junctions are far apart on that stretch.
I know of a business who was forced to close operations for nearly a year during the A417 work and was compensated for loss of business by NH but they had no access available so had to close down for the duration of the works.
I’m reading here I think you still have access but your route to access the M5 is now less convenient as you need to join at other junctions than the issue being local access. I’m not sure you’ll get much luck from the council as they seem more concerned about gritting Lorrie’s not having to drive a diversion than businesses being affected. Tough one as you’d probably be eligible if NH works.
The A417 Missing Link is DFT (Significant Development) involved scheme and therefore its directly funded by Gov. A number of land owners and business owners like Air Balloon, Cycle Park, Farm etc were given money, however these were budgeted the development of the Target Of Costs. There is massive planning and engagement from NH I mean we are comparing £6m scheme to £500m. I know of a business who was forced to close operations for nearly a year during the A417 work and was compensated for loss of business by NH but they had no access available so had to close down for the duration of the works.
I’m reading here I think you still have access but your route to access the M5 is now less convenient as you need to join at other junctions than the issue being local access. I’m not sure you’ll get much luck from the council as they seem more concerned about gritting Lorrie’s not having to drive a diversion than businesses being affected. Tough one as you’d probably be eligible if NH works.
Somerset Highways don't work anything like NH and they don't appear to have considered much when getting the funding.
I am surprised NH have accepted it peak summer, as its not joint scheme like J25 Improvements (which only closed for nightworks), I believe they would be very unhappy but past the slip road its not their ball or game!
NH are judged largely on traffic flow and network capacity, i can well imagine that in the summer holidays J27 and J25 are going to be backed up on the M5 and we will have ques of stationary traffic backing up lane 1 and we will see some accidents as happened at J25 prior to upgrade in 2019-20.
Edited by James.Pond on Thursday 22 May 18:17
Edited by James.Pond on Thursday 22 May 18:22
Griffith4ever said:
It is indeed. I have to say, I'm not sure why is "needs doing" tbh - its concrete, so lasts, and its not exactly long.
They are funneling West Bluckland and beyond out past the Worlds End. Hillarious doedn't even start to cover that..... oh, and the only other option, is out by the garden centre. Its going to be a fun summer ;-)
The roundabout at the bottom of the southbound slip & road leading up to Wellington Nissan is in a terrible state & needs resurfacing for sure.They are funneling West Bluckland and beyond out past the Worlds End. Hillarious doedn't even start to cover that..... oh, and the only other option, is out by the garden centre. Its going to be a fun summer ;-)
The detours through the lanes aren't ideal, nor is 14 weeks of closure (i've no idea if that is excessive for the planned works), but i'd be pretty sure the closure of the junction is legal.
darreni said:
Very true, the roads in somerset are shocking (as they are everywhere). I do wonder if the authorities will ever be able to catch up.
I spend more time looking at the road surface to avoid the potholes than I do looking ahead.
Try it with very wide low profiles! - in fact, I think I simply cover the smaller ones! :-) if you see a black R8 V10 spyder, that's me , btw.I spend more time looking at the road surface to avoid the potholes than I do looking ahead.
Griffith4ever said:
Try it with very wide low profiles! - in fact, I think I simply cover the smaller ones! :-) if you see a black R8 V10 spyder, that's me , btw.
I'm the same, 30 profile rears, 35 fronts. I've already done a front wheel (brick on the M5 northbound slip at Blackbrook).Does your mate need to drive to Taunton to join the Motorway now or is there a better route?
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