Court Summons - Registered keeper but I didn t own the car!
Discussion
Can you not do a paid for MID check online and see who holds that vehicle on their risk register?
The fact that an insurer can’t access the others details, and get in touch with them is well, a bit strange…
I doubt it ll throw much up but it’s worth a punt as if the new owner has kept insured with the same provider for the whole time, then you ve got a potential solution.
The fact that an insurer can’t access the others details, and get in touch with them is well, a bit strange…
I doubt it ll throw much up but it’s worth a punt as if the new owner has kept insured with the same provider for the whole time, then you ve got a potential solution.
Edited by ADJimbo on Tuesday 3rd June 19:26
So you sold it to a scrap dealer for cash - which is supposed to be illegal as they are supposed to only pay into a bank account
You didn't get a receipt nor did you send off the V5
When you notified the DVLA you gave the wrong date
I'd suggest your only chance is if you could go to the scrap dealer and get a backdated receipt
You didn't get a receipt nor did you send off the V5
When you notified the DVLA you gave the wrong date
I'd suggest your only chance is if you could go to the scrap dealer and get a backdated receipt
KTMsm said:
So you sold it to a scrap dealer for cash - which is supposed to be illegal as they are supposed to only pay into a bank account
You didn't get a receipt nor did you send off the V5
When you notified the DVLA you gave the wrong date
I'd suggest your only chance is if you could go to the scrap dealer and get a backdated receipt
He sold it to someone who sold it on, so cash payment is OK.You didn't get a receipt nor did you send off the V5
When you notified the DVLA you gave the wrong date
I'd suggest your only chance is if you could go to the scrap dealer and get a backdated receipt
OP - possibly go to court and explain?
Zor600 said:
In May 2023 I sold my car to a scrap dealer. They told me they sorted the v5 paperwork and I assumed they did.
There was your first mistake. Zor600 said:
I then informed DVLA myself that the vehicle was sold. Unfortunately I made a mistake - I put the date the scrap dealer sold the vehicle onwards, not the date I sold the vehicle to the scrap dealer. I confused the dates and did not realise until now.
There was your second mistake.Zor600 said:
The sale was a cash sale, so I don t have any other proof of sale.
I have been In touch with the scrap dealer who doesn t have proof of sale.
There was your third mistake.I have been In touch with the scrap dealer who doesn t have proof of sale.
Zor600 said:
I received a court summons letter regarding an accident from June 2023 saying I owe ££££ s. I was not the owner of the vehicle at this time, but i was still the registered keeper.
This is the inevitable result.Zor600 said:
The solicitors have told me that as they couldn t get in touch with the offenders insurance they have gone for me as I m the registered keeper.
Unfortunately you seem to have dug yourself a rather large hole and I'm not sure there's an easy way out. The process for selling a car - whether to trade, private, export or scrap is fairly well detailed on the V5 document; viz: if you do THIS, fill this bit in, if you do THAT, fill this bit in. As you have delegated most of the important bits to persons unknown, it has gone wrong and, unless you can convince DVLA and the Court (without any supporting paperwork), I fear it may not end well. Sorry - others may have an alternative way out, I hope.The OP was not the driver and has given all the information that he is able to assist in the investigation. Are RK's ever responsible for an accident if they weren't the driver? At most a fine for failing to furnish, and even that seems very unlikely, even with associated points could be a better outcome than being personally responsible for an injury claim.
OP isn't liable for the accident but is liable for not updating the registered keeper. You'd now need to prove you WEREN'T the person who had the accident - I am assuming its a hit and run, given they're trying to chase who did it via number plate etc and not what details they gave if/when they stopped and exchanged details, as would normally happen.
I'd be searching round for legal advice at this stage. And trying to build an alibi.
I'd be searching round for legal advice at this stage. And trying to build an alibi.
It does appear strange that the other party,s insurer cannot get hold of the insurance company of the driver who caused the accident. How much are we talking about as a claim and is it a County Court case?
I would be asking for more details in that regard, I.e. who were the insurers, if indeed the car was insured. Do have any details of the accident, I.e. location, day and time etc? If so then you would be able to confirm that you were elsewhere therefore it couldn’t be you.
Whilst it is not ideal that you have nothing proving the sale on the correct day to the scrap man, you do have evidence that you, presumably switched insurance cover from one car to another which might be help.
AIUI, being the registered keeper of a vehicle does not prove ownership or indeed who was driving the car and could be that the insurance company are trying it on?
IANAL and I would like to think that despite your errors, then if it were to go to a court hearing then providing you have a much evidence as possible, then there might be a chance of a judge ruling the claim out.
I would be asking for more details in that regard, I.e. who were the insurers, if indeed the car was insured. Do have any details of the accident, I.e. location, day and time etc? If so then you would be able to confirm that you were elsewhere therefore it couldn’t be you.
Whilst it is not ideal that you have nothing proving the sale on the correct day to the scrap man, you do have evidence that you, presumably switched insurance cover from one car to another which might be help.
AIUI, being the registered keeper of a vehicle does not prove ownership or indeed who was driving the car and could be that the insurance company are trying it on?
IANAL and I would like to think that despite your errors, then if it were to go to a court hearing then providing you have a much evidence as possible, then there might be a chance of a judge ruling the claim out.
paul_c123 said:
OP isn't liable for the accident but is liable for not updating the registered keeper. You'd now need to prove you WEREN'T the person who had the accident - I am assuming its a hit and run, given they're trying to chase who did it via number plate etc and not what details they gave if/when they stopped and exchanged details, as would normally happen.
I'd be searching round for legal advice at this stage. And trying to build an alibi.
Just a thought here, if the OP has legal cover on his existing policy, would they be able to assist?I'd be searching round for legal advice at this stage. And trying to build an alibi.
Or legal cover on a home insurance policy?
Boringvolvodriver said:
It does appear strange that the other party,s insurer cannot get hold of the insurance company of the driver who caused the accident.
My assumption would be that the scrap man was well aware that the OP had not completed the necessary information on the V5 and has (or allowed another person or persons) to drive the car in full knowledge that any parking tickets, speeding tickets or insurance claims would go back to the OP. The story about selling the car was made up to throw off the OP. Therefore, there is no other insurer and the last entry on MIB will be the OP’s policy.Zor600 said:
I have the date time and place where the incident took place. I even have the new owners name and address! It s just that I gave the DVLA the wrong sale date last year and now I can t change it.
It is a county court claim
So why aren’t the insurance company going after the new owners then? It is a county court claim
Can you prove that it definitely wasn’t you driving when the incident took place?
Before a County Court hearing can take place, you have the opportunity to put your counter reasons for not accepting the claim followed by mediation so that is where you can get all your ducks in a row.
Being the registered keeper is not proof that you owned the car.
I would write back outlining the facts as you have presented them. You’re not liable as it wasn’t you. Point out that insurance companies not responding is not your problem as it wasn’t your car and you weren’t insured on it.
Just tell the truth. If this ever actually gets to court I’ll be amazed, their only evidence being that you were the RK is an incredibly weak case.
I would write back outlining the facts as you have presented them. You’re not liable as it wasn’t you. Point out that insurance companies not responding is not your problem as it wasn’t your car and you weren’t insured on it.
Just tell the truth. If this ever actually gets to court I’ll be amazed, their only evidence being that you were the RK is an incredibly weak case.
charltjr said:
Being the registered keeper is not proof that you owned the car.
I would write back outlining the facts as you have presented them. You re not liable as it wasn t you. Point out that insurance companies not responding is not your problem as it wasn t your car and you weren t insured on it.
Just tell the truth. If this ever actually gets to court I ll be amazed, their only evidence being that you were the RK is an incredibly weak case.
This is what I would do in the OPs position. I would write back outlining the facts as you have presented them. You re not liable as it wasn t you. Point out that insurance companies not responding is not your problem as it wasn t your car and you weren t insured on it.
Just tell the truth. If this ever actually gets to court I ll be amazed, their only evidence being that you were the RK is an incredibly weak case.
With regards to costs escalating then these should be minimal under the Small Claims procedure. The OP should be able to present all the facts of his defence without reference to a solicitor and IIRC there are limits as to how much costs a business can claim against a private individual.
Zor600 said:
I can get a screenshot of my electronic work schedule from that day which shows when I clocked in and out.
I ll see if I had google timeline set up back then.
Other than that I m not sure what else I could get.
Are there any witnesses that can confirm you were at work for the whole duration, presumably a long way away from where the accident occurred? Is it the kind of job where you're "tied" to a location and it would be reasonable to deduce from clocking in and out events, that you were genuinely there the whole time? For example, telephone call centre, milking cows, worked on a factory packing line, worked on a till. Or is it the kind of job where you can move (including leaving the premises) freely, eg office work, plumber, gardener, etcI ll see if I had google timeline set up back then.
Other than that I m not sure what else I could get.
They have to prove you were the one in the accident but what they'll do is say "well you're the registered keeper, I suggest its you, prove it wasn't". One of the responsibilities of being registered keeper of a car is knowing its whereabouts and who is using it, if its not parked up. Eg a transport manager of a fleet of vans has some kind of log to show who was driving what van that day.
Zor600 said:
My job is fully tracked luckily, however I only have the date, not the time of the incident. I was working most of the day and my google timeline also backs this up. if the incident occurred outside of work hours, how could I prove it wasn t me?
How far from work to the incident?Anyway surely the onus is on them to prove that you were there.
speedking31 said:
The OP was not the driver and has given all the information that he is able to assist in the investigation. Are RK's ever responsible for an accident if they weren't the driver? At most a fine for failing to furnish, and even that seems very unlikely, even with associated points could be a better outcome than being personally responsible for an injury claim.
What are you waffling on about?Boringvolvodriver said:
With regards to costs escalating then these should be minimal under the Small Claims procedure.
The OP mentions personal injury. The usual limit for the small claims track is £10000, but from memory this is reduced to £1000 for an injury claim. So a claim in the "low thousands" could result in quite significant costs IF at least part of it is for personal injury.OP can you clarify please - is the chain purely for damage to a car/other property it is it for injury as well?
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