Dedicated lanes on roundabouts - indicating
Discussion
Morning.
Can anyone confirm please.
If you are in a dedicated lane e.g right turn onto a roundabout do you still have to indicate on approach and whilst on the roundabout to comply with the Highway Code (I mean to the code. Not whether you ‘should’ or not).
I know you have to indicate left to show you are planning on exiting, but I understand a dedicated lane means you don’t have to indicate if you’re going in the dedicated direction.
Thanks.
Can anyone confirm please.
If you are in a dedicated lane e.g right turn onto a roundabout do you still have to indicate on approach and whilst on the roundabout to comply with the Highway Code (I mean to the code. Not whether you ‘should’ or not).
I know you have to indicate left to show you are planning on exiting, but I understand a dedicated lane means you don’t have to indicate if you’re going in the dedicated direction.
Thanks.
I indicate anyway. Better to have a signal not needed than a missing one that was required. I also find it means I'm autonomous when indicating and don't miss one if there's a lot going on. It's not like anyone can realistically get confused it someone is indicating left in a left only lane, is it?
As above, regardless of what the HC says in hypothetical situations, in reality the roads are stuffed with incompetents who haven't a clue what they're doing, so those of us who confirm where we are going can only help keep things flowing.
So many dedicated lanes become confusing to strangers especially as each junction is passed and the lanes move over, arrows on the road itself and overhead signs are useless if you've got a couple of artics or buses in front, proper indicating just makes things better for everyone.
So many dedicated lanes become confusing to strangers especially as each junction is passed and the lanes move over, arrows on the road itself and overhead signs are useless if you've got a couple of artics or buses in front, proper indicating just makes things better for everyone.
Who are you signalling your intent to? The people behind you don't care, the people already on the roundabout don't care either, because they have priority and you're not asking for permission are you? So you signal and people on the roundabout wonder if you're a muppet and slow down to accommodate the probability that you might be about to pull out on them.
Enter the roundabout then signal your intent to go around the roundabout until you need to signal your intent to leave the roundabout.
If you indicate just in case, to make sure you don't forget or whatever, you won't forget to indicate, but you might forget to think about what you're doing instead. Part of your decision-making process should be deciding whether you should indicate or not.
Next thing you know you'll be coming down the motorway slip road indicating right, just in case someone doesn't understand that you don't intend to drive up the grass verge at the end.
Enter the roundabout then signal your intent to go around the roundabout until you need to signal your intent to leave the roundabout.
If you indicate just in case, to make sure you don't forget or whatever, you won't forget to indicate, but you might forget to think about what you're doing instead. Part of your decision-making process should be deciding whether you should indicate or not.
Next thing you know you'll be coming down the motorway slip road indicating right, just in case someone doesn't understand that you don't intend to drive up the grass verge at the end.
paulrockliffe said:
Who are you signalling your intent to? The people behind you don't care, the people already on the roundabout don't care either, because they have priority and you're not asking for permission are you? So you signal and people on the roundabout wonder if you're a muppet and slow down to accommodate the probability that you might be about to pull out on them.
Enter the roundabout then signal your intent to go around the roundabout until you need to signal your intent to leave the roundabout.
If you indicate just in case, to make sure you don't forget or whatever, you won't forget to indicate, but you might forget to think about what you're doing instead. Part of your decision-making process should be deciding whether you should indicate or not.
Next thing you know you'll be coming down the motorway slip road indicating right, just in case someone doesn't understand that you don't intend to drive up the grass verge at the end.
Not sure any of this makes much sense to be honest. Indicating when joining from a slip road is sensible to show your intention to all around you. You may argue it's not necessary, but I would say that you should never assume the competence of those around you and therefore you ought to act as though everyone needs to be told what you are doing, even if obvious. Your flashing light might just make someone notice you. Enter the roundabout then signal your intent to go around the roundabout until you need to signal your intent to leave the roundabout.
If you indicate just in case, to make sure you don't forget or whatever, you won't forget to indicate, but you might forget to think about what you're doing instead. Part of your decision-making process should be deciding whether you should indicate or not.
Next thing you know you'll be coming down the motorway slip road indicating right, just in case someone doesn't understand that you don't intend to drive up the grass verge at the end.
I agree you should always think about indicating, but the only time the logical conclusion is to not indicate is that there is no one around to see it.
MikeM6 said:
Not sure any of this makes much sense to be honest. Indicating when joining from a slip road is sensible to show your intention to all around you. You may argue it's not necessary, but I would say that you should never assume the competence of those around you and therefore you ought to act as though everyone needs to be told what you are doing, even if obvious. Your flashing light might just make someone notice you.
I agree you should always think about indicating, but the only time the logical conclusion is to not indicate is that there is no one around to see it.
I would have thought that if you are established in a marked lane but indicating, then anyone who has only just seen you (eg someone entering a large roundabout after you) is quite likely to assume that you want to change lanes, rather than just showing what your intentions were before joining the roundabout.I agree you should always think about indicating, but the only time the logical conclusion is to not indicate is that there is no one around to see it.
As with passing obstacles close to side roads, or even closely spaced side roads, there are lots of situations where an ‘automatic’ turn signal could confuse and potentially do harm.
That’s why considering giving a signal rather than doing it automatically is part of Advanced Driving systems.
I’m looking for the answer from the Highway Code rather than what people should or shouldn’t do. I was taught if you were in a dedicated lane, then you don’t have to indicate as there’s no point in a dedicated lane otherwise.
I’ve been told yesterday even if there is a dedicated right lane at a roundabout, you should still indicate right (according to the HC) until you approach your exit then indicate left just before (which I agree with), and I should re-take my test.
I don’t think that’s what the HC I’ve pasted says?
I’ve been told yesterday even if there is a dedicated right lane at a roundabout, you should still indicate right (according to the HC) until you approach your exit then indicate left just before (which I agree with), and I should re-take my test.
I don’t think that’s what the HC I’ve pasted says?
Vron said:
I m looking for the answer from the Highway Code rather than what people should or shouldn t do. I was taught if you were in a dedicated lane, then you don t have to indicate as there s no point in a dedicated lane otherwise.
I ve been told yesterday even if there is a dedicated right lane at a roundabout, you should still indicate right (according to the HC) until you approach your exit then indicate left just before (which I agree with), and I should re-take my test.
I don t think that s what the HC I ve pasted says?
The answer should be in the highway code, which is published so it can be read.I ve been told yesterday even if there is a dedicated right lane at a roundabout, you should still indicate right (according to the HC) until you approach your exit then indicate left just before (which I agree with), and I should re-take my test.
I don t think that s what the HC I ve pasted says?
You may also consider if these dedicated lanes have any practical effect, when invisible due to congestion, rain, dark, worn out paint....
911hope said:
Vron said:
I m looking for the answer from the Highway Code rather than what people should or shouldn t do. I was taught if you were in a dedicated lane, then you don t have to indicate as there s no point in a dedicated lane otherwise.
I ve been told yesterday even if there is a dedicated right lane at a roundabout, you should still indicate right (according to the HC) until you approach your exit then indicate left just before (which I agree with), and I should re-take my test.
I don t think that s what the HC I ve pasted says?
The answer should be in the highway code, which is published so it can be read.I ve been told yesterday even if there is a dedicated right lane at a roundabout, you should still indicate right (according to the HC) until you approach your exit then indicate left just before (which I agree with), and I should re-take my test.
I don t think that s what the HC I ve pasted says?
You may also consider if these dedicated lanes have any practical effect, when invisible due to congestion, rain, dark, worn out paint....
paulrockliffe said:
Who are you signalling your intent to? The people behind you don't care, the people already on the roundabout don't care either, because they have priority and you're not asking for permission are you? So you signal and people on the roundabout wonder if you're a muppet and slow down to accommodate the probability that you might be about to pull out on them.
Enter the roundabout then signal your intent to go around the roundabout until you need to signal your intent to leave the roundabout.
If you indicate just in case, to make sure you don't forget or whatever, you won't forget to indicate, but you might forget to think about what you're doing instead. Part of your decision-making process should be deciding whether you should indicate or not.
Next thing you know you'll be coming down the motorway slip road indicating right, just in case someone doesn't understand that you don't intend to drive up the grass verge at the end.
That often quoted (but rarely read) book, the Highway Code, even has pictures for clarity. Mine clearly shows a vehicle indicating right on approach to roundabouts. Leaving the right signal until entering the roundabout can (and often does) result in traffic planning to join having to brake harder than necessary, with the consequent potential increased risk from those behind (yes I know; not your problem, it's your "right of way"). Roundabouts exist to improve flow of traffic; keeping everyone else guessing, has the opposite effect. Enter the roundabout then signal your intent to go around the roundabout until you need to signal your intent to leave the roundabout.
If you indicate just in case, to make sure you don't forget or whatever, you won't forget to indicate, but you might forget to think about what you're doing instead. Part of your decision-making process should be deciding whether you should indicate or not.
Next thing you know you'll be coming down the motorway slip road indicating right, just in case someone doesn't understand that you don't intend to drive up the grass verge at the end.
With regards joining multi-lane carriageways from acceleration lanes; next time you see some numpty racing down lane two of the entry slip with bugger all situational awareness, banging the right indicator quite often gets them thinking that joining two-abreast may not be such a good idea after all. Also; yes it is a give-way line, but you are far more likely to prompt a bit of cooperation if someone sees a flashing indicator; drivers are, afterall, creatures of habit and quite often (particularly mid-afternoon) driving in auto-pilot!
The great thing about common sense is it's not that common, just as well really, or I'd be out of a job 
Yes, you should indicate if it would benefit other road users (including pedestrians).
Dedicated, marked lanes, make no difference. People entering from another direction may not know you are in a dedicated lane. If anyone was taught that they should not indicate just because they are in a marked lane, they were taught incorrectly. The general rules about indicating still apply.
Dedicated, marked lanes, make no difference. People entering from another direction may not know you are in a dedicated lane. If anyone was taught that they should not indicate just because they are in a marked lane, they were taught incorrectly. The general rules about indicating still apply.
MikeM6 said:
...
I agree you should always think about indicating, but the only time the logical conclusion is to not indicate is that there is no one around to see it.
I always indicate, it costs nothing. Always have done but it was reinforced for me when some berk who evidently thought "there is no one around to see it" side swiped me off my motorbike. Or the bloke a couple of weeks ago who changed lanes with no indication into my lane as I was passing him. Or the numerous accidents where the bloke causing it says "sorry didn't see you". etc etcI agree you should always think about indicating, but the only time the logical conclusion is to not indicate is that there is no one around to see it.
What is so difficult indicating before you change direction ALWAYS? It costs nothing. No one has perfect spatial awareness at all times.
Scarletpimpofnel said:
MikeM6 said:
...
I agree you should always think about indicating, but the only time the logical conclusion is to not indicate is that there is no one around to see it.
I always indicate, it costs nothing. Always have done but it was reinforced for me when some berk who evidently thought "there is no one around to see it" side swiped me off my motorbike. Or the bloke a couple of weeks ago who changed lanes with no indication into my lane as I was passing him. Or the numerous accidents where the bloke causing it says "sorry didn't see you". etc etcI agree you should always think about indicating, but the only time the logical conclusion is to not indicate is that there is no one around to see it.
What is so difficult indicating before you change direction ALWAYS? It costs nothing. No one has perfect spatial awareness at all times.
I think that the question from the OP is a fair one.
My thoughts on this are, there is clear advice on what signals to give and when on a roundabout.
Now as for a multi lane roundabout, if one imagines that the road is considered as a a multilayer one way road with entrances and exits on the left, if you were changing lanes on that one way road you would give a signal if someone to gain from that signal.
However there should also be consideration if any signal would be confusing. So for example you could give a signal that you're going to move to the lane to your left, but that could be confused by another that you're intending to take an exit to the left. So timing of the signal and execution or not of the lane change could be critical to avoid confusion.
This potential for confusion is increased on a roundabout due to as mentioned para 2 clear advice and 'rules' on what signals to give and when on any roundabout.
Therefore it comes down to the basics, be clear with signals and timing in relation to intended manoeuvres but avoid giving potentially confusing signals. Recognise on multilayer roundabouts there can be a lot going on, vigilance key.
Sorry, all that sounds a bit po-faced but can't think of any way of putting it.
Quick gripe, having said there is clear advice and 'rules' about signalling on roundabouts, based on seeing the shambles we have to cope with from some then can be forgiven for wondering about that in application or lack of by many.
My thoughts on this are, there is clear advice on what signals to give and when on a roundabout.
Now as for a multi lane roundabout, if one imagines that the road is considered as a a multilayer one way road with entrances and exits on the left, if you were changing lanes on that one way road you would give a signal if someone to gain from that signal.
However there should also be consideration if any signal would be confusing. So for example you could give a signal that you're going to move to the lane to your left, but that could be confused by another that you're intending to take an exit to the left. So timing of the signal and execution or not of the lane change could be critical to avoid confusion.
This potential for confusion is increased on a roundabout due to as mentioned para 2 clear advice and 'rules' on what signals to give and when on any roundabout.
Therefore it comes down to the basics, be clear with signals and timing in relation to intended manoeuvres but avoid giving potentially confusing signals. Recognise on multilayer roundabouts there can be a lot going on, vigilance key.
Sorry, all that sounds a bit po-faced but can't think of any way of putting it.
Quick gripe, having said there is clear advice and 'rules' about signalling on roundabouts, based on seeing the shambles we have to cope with from some then can be forgiven for wondering about that in application or lack of by many.
_Hoppers said:
Scarletpimpofnel said:
MikeM6 said:
...
I agree you should always think about indicating, but the only time the logical conclusion is to not indicate is that there is no one around to see it.
I always indicate, it costs nothing. Always have done but it was reinforced for me when some berk who evidently thought "there is no one around to see it" side swiped me off my motorbike. Or the bloke a couple of weeks ago who changed lanes with no indication into my lane as I was passing him. Or the numerous accidents where the bloke causing it says "sorry didn't see you". etc etcI agree you should always think about indicating, but the only time the logical conclusion is to not indicate is that there is no one around to see it.
What is so difficult indicating before you change direction ALWAYS? It costs nothing. No one has perfect spatial awareness at all times.
MikeM6 said:
_Hoppers said:
The point of not indicating when "there is no one around to see it" is a prompt to make sure you do all the observational checks first.
Exactly, and pedestrians should be considered in this too.I'm sure the people that have tried side swiping me on my motorbike without any indication will claim they did look but "sorry didn't see you mate".
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