Identifying 'secret' hybrids
Discussion
Hi there, I'm looking for a new car which has some limited offroad capability but I don't really like SUVs. I thought the A6 allroad (v6 petrol, USA) looked quite good but I found out after a while of researching them that they have the 48v mild hybrid system, but this isn't well advertised and I do not want a hybrid of any form. I also found out that the RS6 is mild hybrid!
As far as I can tell the a4 allroad (petrol, USA) is also now a mild hybrid but it is unclear if the previous 2.0T (not 45) is also mild hybrid with a 12 V system.
Does any one have any recommendations for a family car with the capability to drive occasionally on non-paved roads? No serious off-roading. I'm looking for a car that:
- Has a reasonable amount of space
- Has at least some performance
- Has no significant reliability issues (assuming maintenance is completed regularly)
- Has the least possible amount of screens, sensors, driving aids etc.
- Is safe (so no cars pre 2010 ish)
Plan for the car is to keep it forever
Right now the a4 allroad looks ok but not sure if it hybrid, other than that I'm struggling to find something that isn't an SUV. This is the US market.
As far as I can tell the a4 allroad (petrol, USA) is also now a mild hybrid but it is unclear if the previous 2.0T (not 45) is also mild hybrid with a 12 V system.
Does any one have any recommendations for a family car with the capability to drive occasionally on non-paved roads? No serious off-roading. I'm looking for a car that:
- Has a reasonable amount of space
- Has at least some performance
- Has no significant reliability issues (assuming maintenance is completed regularly)
- Has the least possible amount of screens, sensors, driving aids etc.
- Is safe (so no cars pre 2010 ish)
Plan for the car is to keep it forever
Right now the a4 allroad looks ok but not sure if it hybrid, other than that I'm struggling to find something that isn't an SUV. This is the US market.
Subaru Outback or another Subaru model (they probably have a bigger range in the US than the UK)? https://subaru.co.uk/overview/outback#vehicle-spec...
The new v60 and v90 in the US are both hybrids. The older v90 is also hybrid. I rented an XC60 in the UK (mild hybrid) recently and I must say the driver aids were very annoying and were difficult to turn off, being in all the sub menus. The older v60cc T5 seems to not be hybrid but it looks just a bit small
I'm going to try an outback but I'm unconvinced the CVT will be any good, although my only experience of a CVT was a 1.3 Mitsubishi lancer which wasn't very good in any respect! The outback is also full of cameras, sensors, driving aids etc none of which I really want if I can avoid it.
Both the mercedes (who do a really nice e class allroad 450 but its a hybrid) and audi 48v mild hybrid systems have both had lots of reliability issues, the audi one in particular can just throw an error and the car can't move which is the worst possible reliability issue given the distances involved. I want to keep the car forever and I don't want to add complexity if I don't have to.
Away from the reliability, I don't like hybrids to drive. I rented a c200 mild hybrid (I used to own a c200 petrol) and the hybrid initially felt a little nippier as you got the instant boost from the hybrid battery verses the lag from the non hybrid version but after a bit of driving it became clear that the battery would run out all of the time if you weren't breaking frequently enough. It also would almost force some breaking on you to regenerate the battery even if you didn't want it to do that. The XC60 did the same thing. Once the battery was flat it felt quite slow and I generally found it to be unpredictable with regard to power delivery which made it tedious to drive.
I also rented a cupra plug in hybrid thing which was mad, turning the engine on and off seemingly randomly, revving the engine to charge the battery at random points, getting annoyed with me if I didn't use satnav so it couldn't decide when it wanted to regen and again when the battery was flat it was slow. That was probably the worst drivetrain I've ever experienced, almost unusable.
I think the 2.0T audi a4 allroad is non-hybrid but i've also read it has a 12v hybrid system. It is really quite difficult to find out if cars have mild hybrid systems in them.
Away from the reliability, I don't like hybrids to drive. I rented a c200 mild hybrid (I used to own a c200 petrol) and the hybrid initially felt a little nippier as you got the instant boost from the hybrid battery verses the lag from the non hybrid version but after a bit of driving it became clear that the battery would run out all of the time if you weren't breaking frequently enough. It also would almost force some breaking on you to regenerate the battery even if you didn't want it to do that. The XC60 did the same thing. Once the battery was flat it felt quite slow and I generally found it to be unpredictable with regard to power delivery which made it tedious to drive.
I also rented a cupra plug in hybrid thing which was mad, turning the engine on and off seemingly randomly, revving the engine to charge the battery at random points, getting annoyed with me if I didn't use satnav so it couldn't decide when it wanted to regen and again when the battery was flat it was slow. That was probably the worst drivetrain I've ever experienced, almost unusable.
I think the 2.0T audi a4 allroad is non-hybrid but i've also read it has a 12v hybrid system. It is really quite difficult to find out if cars have mild hybrid systems in them.
Mild Hybrid can just mean it has a chunkier starter motor that it uses as an extra alternator under braking at for a small amount of extra power under acceleration. The Fiat Panda mild hybrid I rented a while ago had a 11Ah battery, which is about the same size as the battery in my motorbike. I doubt you'd even notice the difference if the hybrid system failed so it really shouldn't put you off buying one. So it's worth checking how the mild hybridness of cars you're interested in works as some may annoy you a lot less than others.
Edited by RizzoTheRat on Friday 20th June 09:39
sneezer212 said:
The new v60 and v90 in the US are both hybrids. The older v90 is also hybrid. I rented an XC60 in the UK (mild hybrid) recently and I must say the driver aids were very annoying and were difficult to turn off, being in all the sub menus. The older v60cc T5 seems to not be hybrid but it looks just a bit small
Older ones (pre 2022?) aren't, only those afterwards.A 540 would be good if it would work. But they don't do estates in the US. I suppose it could work. Or go up a level to 7 series size?
It would just be the occasional dirt track or unpaved road, nothing extreme but more challenging than normal road. So if a regular car could do it with some simple modifications to tyres/wheels then I'd be interested in looking at that as I'm really struggling for options. What do I need to be looking at for this route? Ride height?
It would just be the occasional dirt track or unpaved road, nothing extreme but more challenging than normal road. So if a regular car could do it with some simple modifications to tyres/wheels then I'd be interested in looking at that as I'm really struggling for options. What do I need to be looking at for this route? Ride height?
I've just bought a V60 Cross Country T5, Any of the "T" cars are pure ICE, then when Volvo did a facelift to the "B" engine they introduced the 48V starter generator across all V60/90's. I test drove 4 V60/V90's in the course of finding the one so have some experience
You can definitely get a T5 V90 Cross Country. I drove one. The T6 does feel a bit quicker but with the supercharger, another thing to go wrong.
With the B5 V60CC i tried i didn't like how laggy the integration of ICE, hybrid and gearbox was, so skipped it. Ended up in an almost identical car but pre hybrid. It's obvious from the gear stick if regular ICE or hybrid.
V60's watch out for spec, mine didn't have adaptive cruise fitted despite the wheel buttons, I got Volvo to fit the official part for me when i bought the car approved used
Space wise there really wasn't that much difference between the 2 in the boot. It's only me, Mrs CP & the dog so rear space isn't too much of an issue but it's roomy enough + came with a Volvo towbar for a bike rack as needed. The actual bootspace is barely any different, a bit longer in the 90 but hardly any extra usability. The downside of the V90 is that it's HUGE so a pain to park where I live. T. The nanny assists are a bit annoying but i figure if they save me from 1 incident then that's worth it's while.
If you go approved used and take finance on cars up to 5 years old, you got 2 years of Volvo warranty, i paid the finance off after a month. The T5 will do high 30's on a motorway run at sensible speeds and scrapes low 30's on my 11 mile mostly dual carriageway commute. Not bad for a 1.9T 4wd lump
You can definitely get a T5 V90 Cross Country. I drove one. The T6 does feel a bit quicker but with the supercharger, another thing to go wrong.
With the B5 V60CC i tried i didn't like how laggy the integration of ICE, hybrid and gearbox was, so skipped it. Ended up in an almost identical car but pre hybrid. It's obvious from the gear stick if regular ICE or hybrid.
V60's watch out for spec, mine didn't have adaptive cruise fitted despite the wheel buttons, I got Volvo to fit the official part for me when i bought the car approved used
Space wise there really wasn't that much difference between the 2 in the boot. It's only me, Mrs CP & the dog so rear space isn't too much of an issue but it's roomy enough + came with a Volvo towbar for a bike rack as needed. The actual bootspace is barely any different, a bit longer in the 90 but hardly any extra usability. The downside of the V90 is that it's HUGE so a pain to park where I live. T. The nanny assists are a bit annoying but i figure if they save me from 1 incident then that's worth it's while.
If you go approved used and take finance on cars up to 5 years old, you got 2 years of Volvo warranty, i paid the finance off after a month. The T5 will do high 30's on a motorway run at sensible speeds and scrapes low 30's on my 11 mile mostly dual carriageway commute. Not bad for a 1.9T 4wd lump
Edited by Chrispee on Friday 20th June 14:23
Chrispee said:
I've just bought a V60 Cross Country T5, Any of the "T" cars are pure ICE, then when Volvo did a facelift to the "B" engine they introduced the 48V starter generator across all V60/90's. I test drove 4 V60/V90's in the course of finding the one so have some experience
You can definitely get a T5 V90 Cross Country. I drove one. The T6 does feel a bit quicker but with the supercharger, another thing to go wrong.
In the UK, yes, however in the US of A, the T6 was the least powerful engine option.You can definitely get a T5 V90 Cross Country. I drove one. The T6 does feel a bit quicker but with the supercharger, another thing to go wrong.
Mammasaid said:
Chrispee said:
I've just bought a V60 Cross Country T5, Any of the "T" cars are pure ICE, then when Volvo did a facelift to the "B" engine they introduced the 48V starter generator across all V60/90's. I test drove 4 V60/V90's in the course of finding the one so have some experience
You can definitely get a T5 V90 Cross Country. I drove one. The T6 does feel a bit quicker but with the supercharger, another thing to go wrong.
In the UK, yes, however in the US of A, the T6 was the least powerful engine option.You can definitely get a T5 V90 Cross Country. I drove one. The T6 does feel a bit quicker but with the supercharger, another thing to go wrong.
king mild hybridsneezer212 said:
audi 48v mild hybrid systems have both had lots of reliability issues, the audi one in particular can just throw an error and the car can't move which is the worst possible reliability issue given the distances involved.
Our Q7 has just had £3k+ of warranty work including new alternator and battery due to this. I'm hoping now it's been done it'll not be a problem but it did leave the wife stranded, luckily not too far away. I wasn't aware of the issue when I bought it.Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff