Yellow box junction

[Lopey]

Been sent a pcn for stopping in a yellow box junction.

It's possible that I've misunderstood the rules, but hopefully I can get a decent answer.

I entered the box junction to turn right, no oncoming traffic but the exit was blocked. Completed the maneuver as the traffic lights were changing to red, but still couldn't exit the box due to queuing traffic.

Have I fked up or is it worth appealing?

Thanks

[Tony1963]

Exit was blocked, so you shouldn t have entered the YBJ. It s quite clear in the rules, unfortunately.

Edit to add:

Rule 174 of the Highway Code:

Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (download ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.

Edited by Tony1963 on Monday 7th July 10:40

[Dixy]

Do not enter the box unless your exit road or lane is clear.

You may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.

[uknick]

Lopey said:

Been sent a pcn for stopping in a yellow box junction.

It's possible that I've misunderstood the rules, but hopefully I can get a decent answer.

I entered the box junction to turn right, no oncoming traffic but the exit was blocked. Completed the maneuver as the traffic lights were changing to red, but still couldn't exit the box due to queuing traffic.

Have I fked up or is it worth appealing?

Thanks

From their description, they appear to have entered the box to turn right but their exit was blocked. If so, what did they do wrong?

[Yellow Lizud]

But what happens when you enter the YBJ to turn right and your exit is clear, but you cannot turn right due to oncoming traffic (all OK so far).

Then the oncoming traffic turns left, into the road you wanted to go into, thus blocking your exit.

There is now no oncoming traffic but your exit is blocked, so you are unable to turn and stuck in the YBJ. (so not OK).

So do the cameras take this into consideration, or is it "you're in a yellow box, your exit is blocked, tough st"?

[Yellow Lizud]

uknick said:

From their description, they appear to have entered the box to turn right but their exit was blocked. If so, what did they do wrong?

They entered the box when the exit wasn't clear, that's what they did wrong!!

However my query is what happens when you legally enter the box as your exit is clear but then subsequently the exit gets blocked before you can turn.

[softtop]

Yellow Lizud said:

uknick said:

From their description, they appear to have entered the box to turn right but their exit was blocked. If so, what did they do wrong?

They entered the box when the exit wasn't clear, that's what they did wrong!!

However my query is what happens when you legally enter the box as your exit is clear but then subsequently the exit gets blocked before you can turn.

I have had this, they don't care. person behind me decided they would nip around me as I was moving into the box and took the space I was heading for, and no, I was not dawdling.....

[TwigtheWonderkid]

softtop said:

Yellow Lizud said:

uknick said:

From their description, they appear to have entered the box to turn right but their exit was blocked. If so, what did they do wrong?

They entered the box when the exit wasn't clear, that's what they did wrong!!

However my query is what happens when you legally enter the box as your exit is clear but then subsequently the exit gets blocked before you can turn.

I have had this, they don't care. person behind me decided they would nip around me as I was moving into the box and took the space I was heading for, and no, I was not dawdling.....

They absolutely do care. We have a 3 lane box junction near us where that happens all the time, you enter when your exit is clear, and someone changes lanes and takes your space. They have overturned fines for a couple of people I know on appeal.

[E-bmw]

uknick said:

Lopey said:

Been sent a pcn for stopping in a yellow box junction.

It's possible that I've misunderstood the rules, but hopefully I can get a decent answer.

I entered the box junction to turn right, no oncoming traffic but the exit was blocked. Completed the maneuver as the traffic lights were changing to red, but still couldn't exit the box due to queuing traffic.

Have I fked up or is it worth appealing?

Thanks

From their description, they appear to have entered the box to turn right but their exit was blocked. If so, what did they do wrong?

Entered the YBJ when their exit was blocked, as both you and the OP have stated.

Edited by E-bmw on Monday 7th July 13:29

[Pica-Pica]

If I recall, the wording is something like ‘a person shall not cause a vehicle to stop …’.
It does not specifically say that that ‘person’ has to be the driver of that ‘vehicle’. To my mind then, if you entered when the exit was clear, and then ‘a person’ blocks your exit, and causes your ‘vehicle’ to stop in the box, then you are not guilty of the offence. You need some evidence to prove you were not the cause of your vehicle being prevented from exiting.

[Skodillac]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

softtop said:

Yellow Lizud said:

uknick said:

From their description, they appear to have entered the box to turn right but their exit was blocked. If so, what did they do wrong?

They entered the box when the exit wasn't clear, that's what they did wrong!!

However my query is what happens when you legally enter the box as your exit is clear but then subsequently the exit gets blocked before you can turn.

I have had this, they don't care. person behind me decided they would nip around me as I was moving into the box and took the space I was heading for, and no, I was not dawdling.....

They absolutely do care. We have a 3 lane box junction near us where that happens all the time, you enter when your exit is clear, and someone changes lanes and takes your space. They have overturned fines for a couple of people I know on appeal.

Is this the notorious Hammersmith Broadway/Fulham Palace Road one?

[Mandat]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

They absolutely do care. We have a 3 lane box junction near us where that happens all the time, you enter when your exit is clear, and someone changes lanes and takes your space. They have overturned fines for a couple of people I know on appeal.

If the council were monitoring the YBJ properly, they would have not issued the PCN's in the first place.

[Simpo Two]

How is this auto-policed? Do the cameras have motion sensors such that they take a photo only if a vehicle stops in a marked area?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Mandat said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

They absolutely do care. We have a 3 lane box junction near us where that happens all the time, you enter when your exit is clear, and someone changes lanes and takes your space. They have overturned fines for a couple of people I know on appeal.

If the council were monitoring the YBJ properly, they would have not issued the PCN's in the first place.

They issue automatically when your vehicle stops in the box. If you appeal saying your exit was clear when you entered, I assume they go further back by a few seconds to confirm, and then waive the fine.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Skodillac said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

softtop said:

Yellow Lizud said:

uknick said:

From their description, they appear to have entered the box to turn right but their exit was blocked. If so, what did they do wrong?

They entered the box when the exit wasn't clear, that's what they did wrong!!

However my query is what happens when you legally enter the box as your exit is clear but then subsequently the exit gets blocked before you can turn.

I have had this, they don't care. person behind me decided they would nip around me as I was moving into the box and took the space I was heading for, and no, I was not dawdling.....

They absolutely do care. We have a 3 lane box junction near us where that happens all the time, you enter when your exit is clear, and someone changes lanes and takes your space. They have overturned fines for a couple of people I know on appeal.

Is this the notorious Hammersmith Broadway/Fulham Palace Road one?

It isn't but I know that one's a nightmare too. It's Park Rd/Harefield Rd, by Swakeleys Roundabout.

[ScoobyChris]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

It's Park Rd/Harefield Rd, by Swakeleys Roundabout.

Didn't realise that was monitored, although I've only ever used it outside rush hour to come out of or turn into Harefield Road and the traffic lights have kept the traffic flowing nicely.

Chris

[Mandat]

This might be of help if you plan to challenge the PCN.

https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/

[Terminator X]

The offence isn't stopped in the junction, it's entering when the exit is blocked. It seems LA's don't give a fk about the offence and issue tickets randomly.

TX.

[uknick]

Thanks for clarifying the blocked exit rule.

[Cat]

Terminator X said:

The offence isn't stopped in the junction, it's entering when the exit is blocked. It seems LA's don't give a fk about the offence and issue tickets randomly.

TX.

It's not - a YBJ means, subject to exceptions for turning right etc,, "that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles." If you enter when your exit is blocked but don't stop then it's not an offence.

Cat