Jaguar XK or Mercedes SL R231
Discussion
I am looking for a convertible, more of a GT that an outright sports car. A Mercedes SL R231 (probably a V6 400) and a late XK X150 Portfolio are similarish money. Research suggests the Mercedes has the better build quality, is more refined and is cheaper to run but the XK more fun, is better to drive and slightly cheaper to buy. Has anyone got experience with both cars and if so how do they compare in practice? Thanks in advance .
80% of an Aston Martin DB9, but for 20% of the running costs. My 2009 4.2 XK60 has only needed service items and fuel for the last two years. Build quality is the equal of anything else on the market, and whilst my interior colour scheme isn't the best (Black on Black with Aluminium instead of wood) it feels Premium and walking away from it always gets a glance back when I've parked up. The V8 is refined and potent, with mine being the lowest powered version of it, at a mere 300BHP. Mated to the trusted ZF 6 speed, its smooth in "D" and yet still retains the ability to be a bit of fun when you slot that J Gate lever across to "S" and activate the paddle shift behind the big leather bound wheel. Later cars got the ZF 8 speed, which is even better, although they lost the J Gate for a more modern rotary selector (with Sport moved to a button and an added function button called Dynamic mode) which I felt robbed it a little of the sense of occasion.
I guess what im saying is, the merc will be lovely, but if "quality" and "reliable" are the things you think it does better than the Jag, I think thats just reputation rather than reality. Jaguar might have dropped the ball with the Enginium engine, but the AJV8 family of engines have proved to be spectacular in longevity and character.
I guess what im saying is, the merc will be lovely, but if "quality" and "reliable" are the things you think it does better than the Jag, I think thats just reputation rather than reality. Jaguar might have dropped the ball with the Enginium engine, but the AJV8 family of engines have proved to be spectacular in longevity and character.
Simpo Two said:
Not sure you need to do both - having owned the 4.2 version, S is for driving in Auto to get later upshifts; paddles are for changing gear manually.
You can change manually in "D" but it will drop back to Auto after not being used. S locks the paddle shift in and gives you full manual control without dropping back into Auto.Vsix and Vtec said:
You can change manually in "D" but it will drop back to Auto after not being used. S locks the paddle shift in and gives you full manual control without dropping back into Auto.
Ah right. I only used the paddles for the occasional swift overtake, but recall that to get back to 'D' I just held the 'up' paddle for a couple of seconds. When I first drove a DB9 it didn't work, you have to press the 'D' button.Frankly these days I let the car change the gears for me - and I don't like paddles anyway - if I want to stir the pot I'd go back to a Griffith
To answer the question though - Jaguar. I like to attend car shows so for me they win on looks, interior and relative rarity.
Simpo Two said:
Ah right. I only used the paddles for the occasional swift overtake, but recall that to get back to 'D' I just held the 'up' paddle for a couple of seconds. When I first drove a DB9 it didn't work, you have to press the 'D' button.
Frankly these days I let the car change the gears for me - and I don't like paddles anyway - if I want to stir the pot I'd go back to a Griffith
To answer the question though - Jaguar. I like to attend car shows so for me they win on looks, interior and relative rarity.
Oh it excels at what you describe, thats a perfect demonstration of the flexibility of the ZF 6 speed. I must admit, I drive mine almost exclusively in normal D mode, its plenty quick enough for my needs without accessing the higher RPM range. I do love the aluminium paddleshift fitted to the XK60 version though, a definite step up on the regular black plastic stand items.Frankly these days I let the car change the gears for me - and I don't like paddles anyway - if I want to stir the pot I'd go back to a Griffith
To answer the question though - Jaguar. I like to attend car shows so for me they win on looks, interior and relative rarity.
But I fully agree, the TVR is pure analogue joy, in a way the Jaguar can't really emulate.
Bit late to the party here but I've owned different versions of both of those models, and R231 SL63 5.5 and a 5.0 XKR.
The Jag feels faster but isn't (it's over 100ft lbs down on the Merc), but that's is a good thing in my book. The engine is more charismatic, thirstier, makes a marginally better noise and has a better sound system as standard. My SL didn't have HK audio, and despite apparently being designed with chambers in the body to augment in car audio, felt a bit echo-y and tinny. It also looks better although both have a bit of a 'golf club committee member's image.
To counter, the Mercedes has significantly higher component quality and i'd wager is better screwed together and more reliable.
Issues in 6 months of SL ownership...minor leak from around the window rubber in storm conditions, and worn wipers which have integrated washer gets and are therefore inordinately expensive.
Issues in 3 months of Jag ownership...flaking silver trim on switchgear, dash leather lifting, aircon problems, a bit of shimmy through the drivetrain and I've not seen it for 6 weeks due to a series of garages being unable to diagnose why it won't start.
I can't wait to get it back (the 6 weeks being ascerbated by it being sent to people without the right experience) but there's night and day difference in quality between the two. The SL is Merc's self-proclaimed flagship and the build and quality really, really shows way beyond skin deep. The Jag is a little bit 'parts bin' and perhaps greater than the sum of them, but prices reflect where the two cars sit.
I appreciate I'm comparing the next rung up on both, and I suspect a XK 5.0 will be a marginally better steer and looker than an SL500 4.7 with cheaper part prices to boot, but it won't be as one sided as you might think.
The Jag feels faster but isn't (it's over 100ft lbs down on the Merc), but that's is a good thing in my book. The engine is more charismatic, thirstier, makes a marginally better noise and has a better sound system as standard. My SL didn't have HK audio, and despite apparently being designed with chambers in the body to augment in car audio, felt a bit echo-y and tinny. It also looks better although both have a bit of a 'golf club committee member's image.
To counter, the Mercedes has significantly higher component quality and i'd wager is better screwed together and more reliable.
Issues in 6 months of SL ownership...minor leak from around the window rubber in storm conditions, and worn wipers which have integrated washer gets and are therefore inordinately expensive.
Issues in 3 months of Jag ownership...flaking silver trim on switchgear, dash leather lifting, aircon problems, a bit of shimmy through the drivetrain and I've not seen it for 6 weeks due to a series of garages being unable to diagnose why it won't start.
I can't wait to get it back (the 6 weeks being ascerbated by it being sent to people without the right experience) but there's night and day difference in quality between the two. The SL is Merc's self-proclaimed flagship and the build and quality really, really shows way beyond skin deep. The Jag is a little bit 'parts bin' and perhaps greater than the sum of them, but prices reflect where the two cars sit.
I appreciate I'm comparing the next rung up on both, and I suspect a XK 5.0 will be a marginally better steer and looker than an SL500 4.7 with cheaper part prices to boot, but it won't be as one sided as you might think.
KPB1973 said:
I've not seen it for 6 weeks due to a series of garages being unable to diagnose why it won't start.
Turns over and fires then shuts down? Then will just crank over and not fire?If so, check your earth connection on the NSF wing, visible if you lift the bonnet. Mine had corroded resulting in poor earth. This made the ECU think the bonnet airbag had fired and so cut the fuel pump. It's a safety feature of the car.
I found a new earth point and the problem disappeared.
Mine was with Jag for 3 months. They gave up in the end and I traced the electrical diagrams then found the bad earth.
remedy said:
KPB1973 said:
I've not seen it for 6 weeks due to a series of garages being unable to diagnose why it won't start.
Turns over and fires then shuts down? Then will just crank over and not fire?If so, check your earth connection on the NSF wing, visible if you lift the bonnet. Mine had corroded resulting in poor earth. This made the ECU think the bonnet airbag had fired and so cut the fuel pump. It's a safety feature of the car.
I found a new earth point and the problem disappeared.
Mine was with Jag for 3 months. They gave up in the end and I traced the electrical diagrams then found the bad earth.
I thought it would be the usual thing where you have to stand on the brake pedal, but it seems not.
To clarify, it went into a nearby garage to have the aircon looked at under warranty (the supplying dealer have been absolutely amazing throughout) and a week later I got the update it wouldn't start. It was then recovered to another performance car specialist located closer to the dealer, who have since sent to on another flatbed to a Jag specialist. Whilst the first place didn't cover themselves in glory, a lot of people have done best endeavours with it but net result is a car that won't even turn over. There are theories about steering lock assembly or immobiliser. My guess is that it's electrical but I've not had eyes on the car since early June. Watch this space.
(Sorry for thread drift)
It turned out to be a faulty steering lock module. Now fixed, although I have had issues with the convertible roof since. I think it just conked out due to a flat battery at some point whilst it was away being fixed. After an hour of swearing and trying to do the 'manual reset' process I pulled some fuses and despite none of them being blown, the roof worked once I put them back in!
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