First EV, Navigating the Used market
Discussion
First time Ev buyer looking for some help navigating the used market, particularly when it comes to battery health.
Looking to replace an aging ICE car with an EV. Budget around £9-10k. Considered the Ionic or higher mileage ID3/Kona.
Settling on an Ionic, that seems to fit our driving needs and is seemingly the most economical and has the most accurate range.
So a few questions I had, any advice is much appreciated.
1.Is estimated range vs battery percentage a good enough calculation?
Sellers providing SoH reports is few and far between.
Looked a getting a Dongle, from my research Vgate iPro is recommended.
2.Is there much material difference between 30-50k miles on a used Ev purchase? It s fair that 60k miles on an ICE, maintenance will be required. Belts replaced etc.
3. BMS Software updates, are these only provided by MD services? If a car has been serviced independently, without software updates is there a cost to getting these from the MD?
4.Any other considerations for the used EV market?
Charging wise, will be getting a charger installed. Though it seems like EV charging is used so little at my office it s currently FoC.
Thanks in advance.
Nb: if anyone would like to offer above WBAC for a 130k Corsa please shout
Looking to replace an aging ICE car with an EV. Budget around £9-10k. Considered the Ionic or higher mileage ID3/Kona.
Settling on an Ionic, that seems to fit our driving needs and is seemingly the most economical and has the most accurate range.
So a few questions I had, any advice is much appreciated.
1.Is estimated range vs battery percentage a good enough calculation?
Sellers providing SoH reports is few and far between.
Looked a getting a Dongle, from my research Vgate iPro is recommended.
2.Is there much material difference between 30-50k miles on a used Ev purchase? It s fair that 60k miles on an ICE, maintenance will be required. Belts replaced etc.
3. BMS Software updates, are these only provided by MD services? If a car has been serviced independently, without software updates is there a cost to getting these from the MD?
4.Any other considerations for the used EV market?
Charging wise, will be getting a charger installed. Though it seems like EV charging is used so little at my office it s currently FoC.
Thanks in advance.
Nb: if anyone would like to offer above WBAC for a 130k Corsa please shout
Edited by Frosty73 on Thursday 24th July 15:07
Estimated range Vs battery percentage has absolutely no relation to battery soh. Range is based on previous driving averages so is effected by weather, driving style, speed etc etc etc.
range prediction is often called the GOM guess-o-meter
Maintenance is pretty static on EV so brake fluid, pads and disks, pollen filters etc. the only thing is some manufacturers ask for coolant to be changed. Hyundai requested it for the MK1 Kona for sure I think at 4 years which can be expensive apparently, not sure about ioniq.
range prediction is often called the GOM guess-o-meter
Maintenance is pretty static on EV so brake fluid, pads and disks, pollen filters etc. the only thing is some manufacturers ask for coolant to be changed. Hyundai requested it for the MK1 Kona for sure I think at 4 years which can be expensive apparently, not sure about ioniq.
Edited by drgoatboy on Thursday 24th July 12:13
Edited by drgoatboy on Thursday 24th July 12:22
The battery capacity is warranted to retain min 70% for up to 8 years and 100k miles. On that basis I'd be buying to ensure you have enough mileage headroom that you won't hit the mileage limit before the 8 years is up, at your likely annual mileage.
Finding SoH is hard as you say, you may be able to get a seller to let you plug in a dongle.
There is a coolant change required on the 38 kWh Ioniq which can be quite pricey I think, but check your local dealer. I'd want to make sure a car had had its required coolant changes.
The Ioniq can experience wear in the reduction gearbox, I don't think it's a reason not to buy but something to listen out for on the test drive.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
A colleague has a 38 kWh Ioniq and likes it, they're generally well regarded I think.
Thanks for the tip on coolant. I expect a car without a MD stamp will likely not have had this done. Some further research shows that there was a change in the coolant, so something I’ll have to confirm as well.
The range anxiety was what lead us to consider a higher mileage ID3 though as I understand it, the Ionics efficiency is good enough to compensate. And some reviews have put us off the ID3.
The range anxiety was what lead us to consider a higher mileage ID3 though as I understand it, the Ionics efficiency is good enough to compensate. And some reviews have put us off the ID3.
Frosty73 said:
Thanks for the tip on coolant. I expect a car without a MD stamp will likely not have had this done. Some further research shows that there was a change in the coolant, so something I ll have to confirm as well.
The range anxiety was what lead us to consider a higher mileage ID3 though as I understand it, the Ionics efficiency is good enough to compensate. And some reviews have put us off the ID3.
The ioniq is generally very well regarded, early id3 not so much. I think a lot of bugs around the software will have been ironed out now but I have still heard some stories of not great build quality on the early cars.The range anxiety was what lead us to consider a higher mileage ID3 though as I understand it, the Ionics efficiency is good enough to compensate. And some reviews have put us off the ID3.
g40steve said:
24m from now could be huge depreciation on what you buy & the Chinese are making the establishment bleed.
I can't see an Ioniq costing £10k now being worth less than £6k in a couple of years, during which time the OP would have spent £7k renting the Leap-motor. Not saying that's money wasted, looks like a great car, but I wouldn't see depreciation as a problem purchasing a £10k EV.Turtle Shed said:
I can't see an Ioniq costing £10k now being worth less than £6k in a couple of years, during which time the OP would have spent £7k renting the Leap-motor. Not saying that's money wasted, looks like a great car, but I wouldn't see depreciation as a problem purchasing a £10k EV.
The deals £3864 (161x24) just insure £300 & charge at 6.5p & I can see older EV’s being worthless (huge depreciation).Look at the pressure on prices & advances in tech in the past 24m, I’m sitting it out at someones else's expense.
Traction battery health is difficult to establish. The complete accurate test takes a considerable amount of time and specialist (usually dealer) equipment.
All other methods are a sort of guess. When my car had it's biannual service recently, the manufacturer's approved quick check system came back with 100%, which for a 6 year old car, I thought unlikely.
Using a dongle and a phone app is really a 'good guess' method.
However, it appears that frequency of rapid charging may impact battery degradation.
Quote from Autocar:
Geotab, a leading telematics company, recently reported that while the latest EV batteries are degrading at an average rate of 1.8% per year, compared with 2.3% in 2019, they continue to be sensitive to factors including ambient temperature, thermal management and charging patterns.
In particular, batteries are affected by how frequently they are rapid-charged. Geotab found that rapid-charging a battery more than three times per month can accelerate degradation by up to three times the average rate.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/brit...
All other methods are a sort of guess. When my car had it's biannual service recently, the manufacturer's approved quick check system came back with 100%, which for a 6 year old car, I thought unlikely.
Using a dongle and a phone app is really a 'good guess' method.
However, it appears that frequency of rapid charging may impact battery degradation.
Quote from Autocar:
Geotab, a leading telematics company, recently reported that while the latest EV batteries are degrading at an average rate of 1.8% per year, compared with 2.3% in 2019, they continue to be sensitive to factors including ambient temperature, thermal management and charging patterns.
In particular, batteries are affected by how frequently they are rapid-charged. Geotab found that rapid-charging a battery more than three times per month can accelerate degradation by up to three times the average rate.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/brit...
Edited by Paul Drawmer on Saturday 26th July 07:20
samoht said:
There is a coolant change required on the 38 kWh Ioniq which can be quite pricey I think, but check your local dealer. I'd want to make sure a car had had its required coolant changes.
The Ioniq can experience wear in the reduction gearbox, I don't think it's a reason not to buy but something to listen out for on the test drive.
Kona, Ioniq and (unsurprisingly) Niro all have a coolant swap recall and have a few known cases of reduction gear wear.The Ioniq can experience wear in the reduction gearbox, I don't think it's a reason not to buy but something to listen out for on the test drive.
Some people believe the reduction gear issue is just a case of doing a fluid swap at 10,000 miles and then shouldn't see any further contamination.
These cars have sold in huge numbers though and it's not a case of them being a regular issue.
Kona is a good, well equipped car. Ioniq 38 is good, very efficient but appalling rapid charge speeds. The Kona and Niro aren't much quicker, but have great range on the 64kWh. Kona is typically well equipped.
I went for the 64kWh Kona. We paid a chunk over your budget for a facelift one but prices for a facelift should be approaching your budget. It's bloody good tbh. Plenty of kit, reliable, pretty comfortable.
Don't worry about range. You'll soon figure it out. If you're on a fast moving motorway, anticipate about 80% of the range it says left, otherwise mine is pretty accurate around town.
Mileage will have an impact on various things such as suspension, brakes etc but it'll depend on how it has been used. Could be 30k miles of abuse and crashing over pot holes and speed bumps or 50k of being driven with mechanical sympathy. Which would you have? Buy on condition.
Software updates aren't free to my knowledge, unless they're absolutely critical but then it's usually done as a recall.
The only other consideration is if you've got somewhere to charge it. The cheap rates and convenience can be make or break for the EV experience. Make sure a granny charger is included if you can. Nice to have in a pinch, especially if you're waiting for an EV home charger to be installed.
Don't worry about range. You'll soon figure it out. If you're on a fast moving motorway, anticipate about 80% of the range it says left, otherwise mine is pretty accurate around town.
Mileage will have an impact on various things such as suspension, brakes etc but it'll depend on how it has been used. Could be 30k miles of abuse and crashing over pot holes and speed bumps or 50k of being driven with mechanical sympathy. Which would you have? Buy on condition.
Software updates aren't free to my knowledge, unless they're absolutely critical but then it's usually done as a recall.
The only other consideration is if you've got somewhere to charge it. The cheap rates and convenience can be make or break for the EV experience. Make sure a granny charger is included if you can. Nice to have in a pinch, especially if you're waiting for an EV home charger to be installed.
Frosty73 said:
1.Is estimated range vs battery percentage a good enough calculation?
If your driving is close to the WLTP cycle, then this would give you a best-case estimate.Best practice on Ioniq 5 (I assume Ioniq would be similar): use the in-car navigation and check the estimated charge remaining at the destination. This will take into account road and weather conditions as well as the elevation changes. You can also use the ABPR (https://abetterrouteplanner.com/) app/website to do the same. Both give somewhat conservative estimates in my experience.
The general "estimated range" is useless because of the laws of physics: the energy required per mile can vary by a factor of 10.
To digress: combustion engines mask this because increasing the load on the engine improves the efficiency. At low loads (below 10% of max torque), a petrol engine will turn more than 90% of fuel into noise and waste heat. Increased load, e.g. a steep uphill, the tallest gear the engine can pull (closer to maximum torque), can reduce the waste to 60%. This is why the "estimated range" on a combustion engine car is slightly less useless than in an EV.
Thought it was worth coming back to this.
Picked up a 38kwh Ioniq this weekend, went with a Hyundai approved used (Marshall’s Maidstone) which came with a 100% SoH certificate, did the 5th service ahead of schedule and a full years MOT. Also can’t fault the experience, much better than most of the independents I spoke to. All sorted in 3 days and had it fully charged ready for the 100 miles return journey.
They’re also offering 3 years extended Hyundai warranty for £660 which I think we’ll take.
I’m sure there will be some downsides at some point but really happy with the decision. Brilliant to drive and easy to achieve some great efficiency!
Picked up a 38kwh Ioniq this weekend, went with a Hyundai approved used (Marshall’s Maidstone) which came with a 100% SoH certificate, did the 5th service ahead of schedule and a full years MOT. Also can’t fault the experience, much better than most of the independents I spoke to. All sorted in 3 days and had it fully charged ready for the 100 miles return journey.
They’re also offering 3 years extended Hyundai warranty for £660 which I think we’ll take.
I’m sure there will be some downsides at some point but really happy with the decision. Brilliant to drive and easy to achieve some great efficiency!
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