Help protecting vulnerable old man - concerns of newish pal
Discussion
Apologies if the topic has been done before as I suspect it has, but search terms were too broad. Apologies also for the long post but feel its needed for full context.
Background story.
About 3 years ago my parents downsized property. Somewhere around the same time, a new friend appears on the scene. I don't really know how they were introduced but he was a bit of a wheeler dealer and happened to visit a nearby local auction (think bric-a-brac rather than BCA) on a weekend evening. What ensued was that each week, the new friend would call in for an hour or 2 on his way to the auction and Mum would cook a meal for them all and they would enjoy each other's company generally putting the world to rights as only older folks can do bemoaning the younger generations and general Daily Mail topic discussions. The new pal is a similar age to my Mum, no spring chicken but of an age whereby he is still very savvy in terms of mental capability. My Dad is a fair bit older.
At the same time, fresh from downsizing, the new friend suggests he sells a few possessions; unneeded furniture, sports equipment etc - generally generic items one accumulates. He's supposedly selling them at auction or on ebay and giving my parents the proceeds in cash with them giving him a cut.
Fast forward 18 months and sadly my Mum died. Situation thereafter is my Dad, now 90, is home alone and I would class as depressed, vulnerable and with increasingly poor memory. Not untypical of that generation, he was reliant on my Mum in most areas of the house and had been the more old-fashioned grafter who earned the income whilst Mum dealt with all house related matters outside of the garden and DIY.
Dad has steadfastly refused any concept of moving into any sort of retirement/care facility and wants to maintain living in the house. Whilst I have my own views on this, I respect his wishes. However, he is achingly lonely. He now has a carer 4 days out of 7 for a few hours, but complains visitors are few and far between. His use of technology is abysmal and his hearing so bad efforts to speak with him by phone or Facetime have become increasingly hard to the point any of his friends/family that speak with any sort of accent at all now really are unable to communicate with him. I am based a 600 mile round trip away from him and manage to make it there about every 5 - 6 weeks for a week or so at a time. My brother is more local and manages to pop around regularly each week for an hour or so and picks up shopping for him etc. The carers are great and keep the house in order.
His auction pal continues to visit en route each week. They have formed what seems a nice friendship and I know Dad really values his company, particularly the frequency of his visits and it gives him something to look forward to every weekend.
However, since Mum's passing, my Dad has moved on from giving odd items of furniture/garden stuff to his pal to sell and has moved on to all sorts of stuff. Dad's connection with his emotions has always been oddly wired but he seems to apply no sentimental value or understand why there may be some to certain personal items that seem to be leaving the front door every time the auction friend leaves. It now almost seems ingrained in Dad for this chap to have to leave each week with something to sell.
At the same time, the commission basis that applied initially has changed into auction pal just giving Dad some cash for these items to be sold at a later date.
To be clear, Dad has no need for the cash and indeed I don't know what he is even doing with it (or whether he is actually accepting it). His memory of what he "sold" or received or even what day he saw his friend is poor at best.
The latest visit saw Dad "sell" to his friend my Mum's entire collection of boxed sculptures she collected from all over Europe over 20 years. I would have said it was her most cherished possessions. The friend had said no one would be interested in buying them for anything much these days (and he may well be correct in that), and gave him what amounts to less than a tank of fuel in cash. I am dismayed by that; Dad has cleared the house of most of Mum's items and I understand he might have needed to do so psychologically but I cannot see why that would effect the need to effectively clear storage cupboards of items she treasured - this wasn't emptying a cupboard of clothes or a cabinet of make up.
The auction friend is pleasant enough to talk to but a few things raise little red flags to me:-
He actively seems to avoid visiting Dad when family are there.
His first line to me whenever I am there is, "when are you heading back?" (could just be awkward small talk and paranoia on my part)
He has never really engaged with anyone else Dad knows or introduced Dad to anyone he knows. The "meets" only happen at Dad's (to be fair the origins were that it was on his way to the auction)
The move from cash on sell/commission to just handing over a few quid.
The move from general household items to deeply personal items.
He had "valued" an antique Omega watch of Mum's and had sent a link to one nothing like it on ebay. When I next visited I did a cursory 5 minutes on ebay and found one with identical markings and strap and ended up in the closest to a falling out as he insisted "his" was a better match when Stevie Wonder could see how it differed - no pun intended but not the hallmarks of a budding Lovejoy.
Some coincidental things have also occurred regarding missing valuable jewellery but I feel it grossly unfair to point in any direction regarding this as it is purely conjecture.
I feel sad for being questioning of someone who might just be a genuine friend and whose company my Dad clearly enjoys. However, some of his actions I find a bit odd (as above) and, if I were in his shoes, I think at the least I would reach out to another family members to see if they are ok for him to dispose of what might be important to family. He seems a nice enough chap, if a bit socially awkward, and I don't want to have to make things difficult by asking him anything or saying anything that would understandably be hurtful if my paranoia is just that.
This recent debacle of disposing of Mum's cherished items has upset me that these are now outside of the family and kept me awake with frustration.
Any advice?!
Edit - On writing this down and reflecting, it's now clicked that part of this isn't just concerns surrounding the new pal, but frustration at my Dad's attitude to Mum's possessions being needlessly sold without warning and the fact they have (almost literally!) zero value to him. I still think a better friend, with more normal emotional balance might dissuade Dad from flogging them for peanuts, mind. Instead it kind of feels as though he's happy so long as his supply chain is uninterrupted.
Background story.
About 3 years ago my parents downsized property. Somewhere around the same time, a new friend appears on the scene. I don't really know how they were introduced but he was a bit of a wheeler dealer and happened to visit a nearby local auction (think bric-a-brac rather than BCA) on a weekend evening. What ensued was that each week, the new friend would call in for an hour or 2 on his way to the auction and Mum would cook a meal for them all and they would enjoy each other's company generally putting the world to rights as only older folks can do bemoaning the younger generations and general Daily Mail topic discussions. The new pal is a similar age to my Mum, no spring chicken but of an age whereby he is still very savvy in terms of mental capability. My Dad is a fair bit older.
At the same time, fresh from downsizing, the new friend suggests he sells a few possessions; unneeded furniture, sports equipment etc - generally generic items one accumulates. He's supposedly selling them at auction or on ebay and giving my parents the proceeds in cash with them giving him a cut.
Fast forward 18 months and sadly my Mum died. Situation thereafter is my Dad, now 90, is home alone and I would class as depressed, vulnerable and with increasingly poor memory. Not untypical of that generation, he was reliant on my Mum in most areas of the house and had been the more old-fashioned grafter who earned the income whilst Mum dealt with all house related matters outside of the garden and DIY.
Dad has steadfastly refused any concept of moving into any sort of retirement/care facility and wants to maintain living in the house. Whilst I have my own views on this, I respect his wishes. However, he is achingly lonely. He now has a carer 4 days out of 7 for a few hours, but complains visitors are few and far between. His use of technology is abysmal and his hearing so bad efforts to speak with him by phone or Facetime have become increasingly hard to the point any of his friends/family that speak with any sort of accent at all now really are unable to communicate with him. I am based a 600 mile round trip away from him and manage to make it there about every 5 - 6 weeks for a week or so at a time. My brother is more local and manages to pop around regularly each week for an hour or so and picks up shopping for him etc. The carers are great and keep the house in order.
His auction pal continues to visit en route each week. They have formed what seems a nice friendship and I know Dad really values his company, particularly the frequency of his visits and it gives him something to look forward to every weekend.
However, since Mum's passing, my Dad has moved on from giving odd items of furniture/garden stuff to his pal to sell and has moved on to all sorts of stuff. Dad's connection with his emotions has always been oddly wired but he seems to apply no sentimental value or understand why there may be some to certain personal items that seem to be leaving the front door every time the auction friend leaves. It now almost seems ingrained in Dad for this chap to have to leave each week with something to sell.
At the same time, the commission basis that applied initially has changed into auction pal just giving Dad some cash for these items to be sold at a later date.
To be clear, Dad has no need for the cash and indeed I don't know what he is even doing with it (or whether he is actually accepting it). His memory of what he "sold" or received or even what day he saw his friend is poor at best.
The latest visit saw Dad "sell" to his friend my Mum's entire collection of boxed sculptures she collected from all over Europe over 20 years. I would have said it was her most cherished possessions. The friend had said no one would be interested in buying them for anything much these days (and he may well be correct in that), and gave him what amounts to less than a tank of fuel in cash. I am dismayed by that; Dad has cleared the house of most of Mum's items and I understand he might have needed to do so psychologically but I cannot see why that would effect the need to effectively clear storage cupboards of items she treasured - this wasn't emptying a cupboard of clothes or a cabinet of make up.
The auction friend is pleasant enough to talk to but a few things raise little red flags to me:-
He actively seems to avoid visiting Dad when family are there.
His first line to me whenever I am there is, "when are you heading back?" (could just be awkward small talk and paranoia on my part)
He has never really engaged with anyone else Dad knows or introduced Dad to anyone he knows. The "meets" only happen at Dad's (to be fair the origins were that it was on his way to the auction)
The move from cash on sell/commission to just handing over a few quid.
The move from general household items to deeply personal items.
He had "valued" an antique Omega watch of Mum's and had sent a link to one nothing like it on ebay. When I next visited I did a cursory 5 minutes on ebay and found one with identical markings and strap and ended up in the closest to a falling out as he insisted "his" was a better match when Stevie Wonder could see how it differed - no pun intended but not the hallmarks of a budding Lovejoy.
Some coincidental things have also occurred regarding missing valuable jewellery but I feel it grossly unfair to point in any direction regarding this as it is purely conjecture.
I feel sad for being questioning of someone who might just be a genuine friend and whose company my Dad clearly enjoys. However, some of his actions I find a bit odd (as above) and, if I were in his shoes, I think at the least I would reach out to another family members to see if they are ok for him to dispose of what might be important to family. He seems a nice enough chap, if a bit socially awkward, and I don't want to have to make things difficult by asking him anything or saying anything that would understandably be hurtful if my paranoia is just that.
This recent debacle of disposing of Mum's cherished items has upset me that these are now outside of the family and kept me awake with frustration.
Any advice?!
Edit - On writing this down and reflecting, it's now clicked that part of this isn't just concerns surrounding the new pal, but frustration at my Dad's attitude to Mum's possessions being needlessly sold without warning and the fact they have (almost literally!) zero value to him. I still think a better friend, with more normal emotional balance might dissuade Dad from flogging them for peanuts, mind. Instead it kind of feels as though he's happy so long as his supply chain is uninterrupted.
Edited by Shnozz on Thursday 31st July 06:21
I hope you'll forgive me for doing this but what you've outlined here is understandably worrying and I'm not sure if my thoughts would be as helpful as putting the issue into a ChatGPT for it's response.
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with everything suggested but it frames the problem with what I think are some useful suggestions.
This is what it came up with.
"That s a very thoughtful, fair-minded and deeply sad situation and you're right to feel disturbed by it. You're walking a tightrope between respecting your dad s independence, allowing him the company he values, and protecting him from potential exploitation. Your instincts are not paranoia they re grounded in concern, pattern recognition, and love.
Let s break this down practically, ethically, and emotionally:
---
?? What You re Seeing
From what you ve described, several red flags are waving together:
Progression from harmless selling to personal, potentially valuable items.
No documentation or traceability of what's sold or for how much.
Cash-only, vague values, and inconsistent storylines.
Reluctance to engage with family, especially when valuable items go missing.
Dad s increasing vulnerability, poor memory, inability to track what's gone or assess whether he s being fairly treated.
Disposal of deeply personal items with no consent or discussion.
Even if the auction friend started out as helpful or well-intentioned, he may now be taking advantage either subtly (seeing no harm and pocketing more) or consciously (actively manipulating a lonely, confused man).
---
? Important Principle: Intent Doesn t Matter as Much as Impact
Even if this man is not a con artist, the situation is ripe for abuse. You don t need to accuse him of theft or villainy to assert:
> "My father s condition has changed and we need a different system in place to ensure his best interests are protected."
That s not a confrontation that s guardianship.
---
? Suggested Actions (Step-by-Step)
Here s a way to move forward without confrontation, while protecting your dad s interests and maintaining respect all around.
1. Begin a Log (Quietly)
Start documenting:
What items have disappeared.
Approximate value.
Dates of visits.
Any cash left or exchanged.
Photos of items still in the home you don t want touched.
This creates a record, in case things escalate or if you need legal intervention later.
---
2. Talk to Your Brother
He s closer and this will be far more effective if you re aligned. Phrase it not as an accusation but as:
> "I m just really uneasy about how much is vanishing from the house especially sentimental things. We need to step in with more oversight before anything major disappears or is lost forever."
You don t need his permission but you ll need his support.
---
3. Set Boundaries Firm but Friendly
Draft a short, non-accusatory message to the auction pal. Either from you or jointly with your brother. For example:
> "Hi [Name], really appreciate you visiting Dad and giving him some company he looks forward to it every week. As Dad s memory and awareness are declining a bit, we re starting to catalogue personal belongings so we can make sure family items aren t accidentally let go. Going forward, could you check in with us before taking anything to sell, just in case there s any family history or plans around it? Hope you understand, and thanks for your help so far."
This preserves the relationship but establishes a line: no more selling without sign-off.
---
4. Review Power of Attorney (If Not Already)
If no one has Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) for your dad's finances and/or health, it s time. You don t need it yet, but as his memory continues to decline, it will be necessary to manage situations like this. It also helps with legal protection if items vanish and accountability is needed.
---
5. Create a Family Asset Freeze
Without formally removing items, you could begin quietly removing sentimental or valuable objects from the home or at least placing them in a box marked "family keep." Let carers know not to allow anything to leave the house without your or your brother's agreement.
---
? If You Must Speak Face-to-Face with the Auction Friend
Stay calm, polite, and clear:
> You ve been really kind giving Dad company thank you for that. But he s not really able to make decisions like he used to, and we want to make sure things aren t being sold without family checking first. I hope you understand it s not about you, it s just the situation now.
You do not need to prove intent or wrongdoing you are creating a protective boundary.
---
? Emotionally: It Is a Loss
You re grieving:
Your mum s death.
Your dad s decline.
The loss of heirlooms, history, and the chance to keep part of your family legacy.
It s not "just stuff." It s connection, memory, grief, and continuity. It makes perfect sense this kept you awake and it s a sign of love, not obsession or paranoia.
---
? Final Thought
This isn't about being suspicious it's about being a good steward for someone who can t protect himself anymore. You re not accusing the friend you re changing the terms of access.
You re absolutely right to take steps now. Waiting longer will only deepen the loss or open the door to real harm"
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with everything suggested but it frames the problem with what I think are some useful suggestions.
This is what it came up with.
"That s a very thoughtful, fair-minded and deeply sad situation and you're right to feel disturbed by it. You're walking a tightrope between respecting your dad s independence, allowing him the company he values, and protecting him from potential exploitation. Your instincts are not paranoia they re grounded in concern, pattern recognition, and love.
Let s break this down practically, ethically, and emotionally:
---
?? What You re Seeing
From what you ve described, several red flags are waving together:
Progression from harmless selling to personal, potentially valuable items.
No documentation or traceability of what's sold or for how much.
Cash-only, vague values, and inconsistent storylines.
Reluctance to engage with family, especially when valuable items go missing.
Dad s increasing vulnerability, poor memory, inability to track what's gone or assess whether he s being fairly treated.
Disposal of deeply personal items with no consent or discussion.
Even if the auction friend started out as helpful or well-intentioned, he may now be taking advantage either subtly (seeing no harm and pocketing more) or consciously (actively manipulating a lonely, confused man).
---
? Important Principle: Intent Doesn t Matter as Much as Impact
Even if this man is not a con artist, the situation is ripe for abuse. You don t need to accuse him of theft or villainy to assert:
> "My father s condition has changed and we need a different system in place to ensure his best interests are protected."
That s not a confrontation that s guardianship.
---
? Suggested Actions (Step-by-Step)
Here s a way to move forward without confrontation, while protecting your dad s interests and maintaining respect all around.
1. Begin a Log (Quietly)
Start documenting:
What items have disappeared.
Approximate value.
Dates of visits.
Any cash left or exchanged.
Photos of items still in the home you don t want touched.
This creates a record, in case things escalate or if you need legal intervention later.
---
2. Talk to Your Brother
He s closer and this will be far more effective if you re aligned. Phrase it not as an accusation but as:
> "I m just really uneasy about how much is vanishing from the house especially sentimental things. We need to step in with more oversight before anything major disappears or is lost forever."
You don t need his permission but you ll need his support.
---
3. Set Boundaries Firm but Friendly
Draft a short, non-accusatory message to the auction pal. Either from you or jointly with your brother. For example:
> "Hi [Name], really appreciate you visiting Dad and giving him some company he looks forward to it every week. As Dad s memory and awareness are declining a bit, we re starting to catalogue personal belongings so we can make sure family items aren t accidentally let go. Going forward, could you check in with us before taking anything to sell, just in case there s any family history or plans around it? Hope you understand, and thanks for your help so far."
This preserves the relationship but establishes a line: no more selling without sign-off.
---
4. Review Power of Attorney (If Not Already)
If no one has Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) for your dad's finances and/or health, it s time. You don t need it yet, but as his memory continues to decline, it will be necessary to manage situations like this. It also helps with legal protection if items vanish and accountability is needed.
---
5. Create a Family Asset Freeze
Without formally removing items, you could begin quietly removing sentimental or valuable objects from the home or at least placing them in a box marked "family keep." Let carers know not to allow anything to leave the house without your or your brother's agreement.
---
? If You Must Speak Face-to-Face with the Auction Friend
Stay calm, polite, and clear:
> You ve been really kind giving Dad company thank you for that. But he s not really able to make decisions like he used to, and we want to make sure things aren t being sold without family checking first. I hope you understand it s not about you, it s just the situation now.
You do not need to prove intent or wrongdoing you are creating a protective boundary.
---
? Emotionally: It Is a Loss
You re grieving:
Your mum s death.
Your dad s decline.
The loss of heirlooms, history, and the chance to keep part of your family legacy.
It s not "just stuff." It s connection, memory, grief, and continuity. It makes perfect sense this kept you awake and it s a sign of love, not obsession or paranoia.
---
? Final Thought
This isn't about being suspicious it's about being a good steward for someone who can t protect himself anymore. You re not accusing the friend you re changing the terms of access.
You re absolutely right to take steps now. Waiting longer will only deepen the loss or open the door to real harm"
Are you aware of a service called Deputyship?
It's a service provided by the Adult Social Care department of the local authority. A Deputyship Officer is appointed by the Court of Protection to look after the affairs of someone unable to do so themselves. It's a little like Power of Attorney but differs in that it's more pro-active and generally applies where there are no immediate family members nearby that can help, day to day. It protects people from financial abuse and ensures bills get paid and that the individual is receiving the right pensions, tax credits, etc.
I made a short film about this for one local authority: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssmGQLpdRVI&t=...
It won't, sadly, tackle the loneliness but could at least take one of the weights off your mind so might be worth having a chat with his Carer about this.
It's a service provided by the Adult Social Care department of the local authority. A Deputyship Officer is appointed by the Court of Protection to look after the affairs of someone unable to do so themselves. It's a little like Power of Attorney but differs in that it's more pro-active and generally applies where there are no immediate family members nearby that can help, day to day. It protects people from financial abuse and ensures bills get paid and that the individual is receiving the right pensions, tax credits, etc.
I made a short film about this for one local authority: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssmGQLpdRVI&t=...
It won't, sadly, tackle the loneliness but could at least take one of the weights off your mind so might be worth having a chat with his Carer about this.
Firstly sorry for the position you find yourself in.
That AI response is really interesting albeit obviously not containing any emotion !
Does your brother share your views / red flags ?
I must admit there a fair few red flags although difficult to separate out what emotion you are feeling on your Mums' possessions versus what "cold , business like " feelings are although if it walks like a duck etc shouldn't be underestimated.
LPA's are all well and good and should stop any higher degree of manipulation but in themselves won't stop your Dad in still giving away stuff.
I think if it were me in that position at the very least I would share my thoughts with my brother ( if I hadn't already ) and then take stock.
If he feels like you then at the very least one or both of you ( appreciate you are some distance away ) should sit down with both your Dad and Lovejoy and just calmly and politely go through "your" concerns.
This can be centred around your feelings towards your Mum's possessions so as to not necessarily reveal your true red flags.
In turn you can also say how much you appreciate Lovejoy helping your Dad but " obviously " as his next of kin / attorney (?) you have a duty of care and just want what's best for him.
Irrespective , it does sound as if now is a good time to get both a Financial and a Health LPA in place ( get both to be joint and several for you and your brother ) ( assuming you don't have already ) as you don't have to actually use them but arranging both will take some time -the OPG can take up to 26 weeks to issue them !
Best of luck.
That AI response is really interesting albeit obviously not containing any emotion !
Does your brother share your views / red flags ?
I must admit there a fair few red flags although difficult to separate out what emotion you are feeling on your Mums' possessions versus what "cold , business like " feelings are although if it walks like a duck etc shouldn't be underestimated.
LPA's are all well and good and should stop any higher degree of manipulation but in themselves won't stop your Dad in still giving away stuff.
I think if it were me in that position at the very least I would share my thoughts with my brother ( if I hadn't already ) and then take stock.
If he feels like you then at the very least one or both of you ( appreciate you are some distance away ) should sit down with both your Dad and Lovejoy and just calmly and politely go through "your" concerns.
This can be centred around your feelings towards your Mum's possessions so as to not necessarily reveal your true red flags.
In turn you can also say how much you appreciate Lovejoy helping your Dad but " obviously " as his next of kin / attorney (?) you have a duty of care and just want what's best for him.
Irrespective , it does sound as if now is a good time to get both a Financial and a Health LPA in place ( get both to be joint and several for you and your brother ) ( assuming you don't have already ) as you don't have to actually use them but arranging both will take some time -the OPG can take up to 26 weeks to issue them !
Best of luck.
Alternative view, but i have recently had to clear and sell a house of a relative who had died, and it was not an easy thing, so much stuff to get rid of, its amazing how much crap we accumulate in a lifetime.
So in part, if money isnt a problem, maybe the guy is doing you a favour.
If there are things of your mum that you or the rest of the family would like, why not ask for them.
Your dad may find having your mums stuff around hard.
If you feel that this friend is taking advantage of the situation, then im not sure what you can do.
I would get a power of attorney set up incase you need it in the future tho, alot easyer while he is still able to fill in the forms.
I hope this doesnt sound harsh, its not meant to.
So in part, if money isnt a problem, maybe the guy is doing you a favour.
If there are things of your mum that you or the rest of the family would like, why not ask for them.
Your dad may find having your mums stuff around hard.
If you feel that this friend is taking advantage of the situation, then im not sure what you can do.
I would get a power of attorney set up incase you need it in the future tho, alot easyer while he is still able to fill in the forms.
I hope this doesnt sound harsh, its not meant to.
I'd be having a word with 'Lovejoy' and making it very very clear that as far as Dad was concerned he was out of the antiques game and wouldn't be taking anything more either as sales or gifts and in future would politely decline.
If it's anything more than a scam they should be happy with that.
If it's not then while not ideal it's not worth buying 'friendship' through being ripped off.
If you're really concerned then remove any items of value *now* for safekeeping.
Slap some cameras up while you're at it to keep an eye on things especially if stuff is maybe walking off - could be the carers.
Personally I'd be extremely unsubtle in my discussion with Lovejoy but others might take a more gentle approach.
If it's anything more than a scam they should be happy with that.
If it's not then while not ideal it's not worth buying 'friendship' through being ripped off.
If you're really concerned then remove any items of value *now* for safekeeping.
Slap some cameras up while you're at it to keep an eye on things especially if stuff is maybe walking off - could be the carers.
Personally I'd be extremely unsubtle in my discussion with Lovejoy but others might take a more gentle approach.
Thanks all for the input - much appreciated. It was also useful/cathartic just getting down on paper my own thoughts to reckon with the issues.
In response to some points made - I have POA assigned and registered but I haven't had cause to invoke it at present as Dad is of sound enough mind in terms of financial and health affairs, albeit just forgetful but no question he has capacity. I cannot see any benefit in terms of pulling up anything using the POA - unless I am missing a trick here?
I want Dad to retain as much of his independence as he can and feel the POA may see that as not trusting him or stepping on that independence/questioning his decisions. I appreciate its designed in some ways to very much do so, however.
I also don't want to jeopardise his friendship with his pal, which is very much a backbone of his week due to the fact its same time, same place week on week, unlike other visitors which pop in sporadically but don't give him that certainty each weekend for him to look forward to.
As to the comments regarding house clearing, I do believe that might be the case to a degree and have tried repurposing my frustration in viewing it as him trying to help us in clearing unwanted stuff. The trouble is where he is emotionally disconnected he is clearing anything of sentimental value and leaving the copious amounts of larger replaceable crap! Binning a small box of old photos but then insisting on keeping boxes of old house phones, broken floor lamps and old armchairs etc! Trying to discuss why that is ridiculous is like talking to a brick wall. He thinks the old crap is useful and anything not practical is just surplus and that is just the way he is in not attaching emotion to keepsakes.
Some really good replies so thank you all.
In response to some points made - I have POA assigned and registered but I haven't had cause to invoke it at present as Dad is of sound enough mind in terms of financial and health affairs, albeit just forgetful but no question he has capacity. I cannot see any benefit in terms of pulling up anything using the POA - unless I am missing a trick here?
I want Dad to retain as much of his independence as he can and feel the POA may see that as not trusting him or stepping on that independence/questioning his decisions. I appreciate its designed in some ways to very much do so, however.
I also don't want to jeopardise his friendship with his pal, which is very much a backbone of his week due to the fact its same time, same place week on week, unlike other visitors which pop in sporadically but don't give him that certainty each weekend for him to look forward to.
As to the comments regarding house clearing, I do believe that might be the case to a degree and have tried repurposing my frustration in viewing it as him trying to help us in clearing unwanted stuff. The trouble is where he is emotionally disconnected he is clearing anything of sentimental value and leaving the copious amounts of larger replaceable crap! Binning a small box of old photos but then insisting on keeping boxes of old house phones, broken floor lamps and old armchairs etc! Trying to discuss why that is ridiculous is like talking to a brick wall. He thinks the old crap is useful and anything not practical is just surplus and that is just the way he is in not attaching emotion to keepsakes.
Some really good replies so thank you all.
StevieBee said:
Are you aware of a service called Deputyship?
It's a service provided by the Adult Social Care department of the local authority. A Deputyship Officer is appointed by the Court of Protection to look after the affairs of someone unable to do so themselves. It's a little like Power of Attorney but differs in that it's more pro-active and generally applies where there are no immediate family members nearby that can help, day to day. It protects people from financial abuse and ensures bills get paid and that the individual is receiving the right pensions, tax credits, etc.
I made a short film about this for one local authority: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssmGQLpdRVI&t=...
It won't, sadly, tackle the loneliness but could at least take one of the weights off your mind so might be worth having a chat with his Carer about this.
Thanks particularly for this - new to me so will take a watch and google.It's a service provided by the Adult Social Care department of the local authority. A Deputyship Officer is appointed by the Court of Protection to look after the affairs of someone unable to do so themselves. It's a little like Power of Attorney but differs in that it's more pro-active and generally applies where there are no immediate family members nearby that can help, day to day. It protects people from financial abuse and ensures bills get paid and that the individual is receiving the right pensions, tax credits, etc.
I made a short film about this for one local authority: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssmGQLpdRVI&t=...
It won't, sadly, tackle the loneliness but could at least take one of the weights off your mind so might be worth having a chat with his Carer about this.
I was appointed a financial guardian for my mum through the Court of Protection.
I controlled her assets, yet was closely supervised independently to make sure I wasn't fiddling anything.
It was an unbiased, unemotive process!
Take all emotion out of things.
That said, assuming you're next of kin, do you have siblings, do you intend to keep anything in the house, does it have any real value?
I'd have welcomed someone sorting through mums stuff with her and selling it on, ultimately I paid a fella £500 to clear the house!
It's just stuff!
I controlled her assets, yet was closely supervised independently to make sure I wasn't fiddling anything.
It was an unbiased, unemotive process!
Take all emotion out of things.
That said, assuming you're next of kin, do you have siblings, do you intend to keep anything in the house, does it have any real value?
I'd have welcomed someone sorting through mums stuff with her and selling it on, ultimately I paid a fella £500 to clear the house!
It's just stuff!
alscar said:
In terms of "using" the POA I was thinking that you would only " use it " in any conversation with Lovejoy - not as a threat but simply as an observation for him.
Sort of carrot and stick conversation as it were.
I'm not POA expert but I'm not sure how the POA would help when Lovejoy rocks up, gives the OP's father some cash for personal possessions, then leaves to sell the goods elsewhere?Sort of carrot and stick conversation as it were.
You mentioned your dad is getting isolated due to his hearing deteriorating.
My mother was the same. Got her fitted with these earbud-like hearing aids and she can now hear someone fart 3 doors down and my dad's breathing annoys her now when she couldn't hear him speak before. These are quality of life changing. Suggest you do this asap so people can communicate with him over the phone etc again.
Incidentally your fears are well founded. This person might have started off as a friend but people prey on the elderly. My gran's neighbours were just helping themselves to her stuff (family heirlooms, quality pieces and all sorts). I am not saying they outright stole stuff, but if they said how nice something was she would give it to them as she was complete senile by this stage.
My mother was the same. Got her fitted with these earbud-like hearing aids and she can now hear someone fart 3 doors down and my dad's breathing annoys her now when she couldn't hear him speak before. These are quality of life changing. Suggest you do this asap so people can communicate with him over the phone etc again.
Incidentally your fears are well founded. This person might have started off as a friend but people prey on the elderly. My gran's neighbours were just helping themselves to her stuff (family heirlooms, quality pieces and all sorts). I am not saying they outright stole stuff, but if they said how nice something was she would give it to them as she was complete senile by this stage.
MesoForm said:
alscar said:
In terms of "using" the POA I was thinking that you would only " use it " in any conversation with Lovejoy - not as a threat but simply as an observation for him.
Sort of carrot and stick conversation as it were.
I'm not POA expert but I'm not sure how the POA would help when Lovejoy rocks up, gives the OP's father some cash for personal possessions, then leaves to sell the goods elsewhere?Sort of carrot and stick conversation as it were.
If Lovejoy is being entirely on the level then the conversation wont have any negative impact but if he isn't ( which is what the OP's red flags are largely about ) it just sends a warning shot across his bows.
In terms of the loneliness there will be a pensioner lunch club nearby or even the pub if there's a 'spoons, they're always rammed with pensioners within minutes of opening, although getting there and back may present a challenge; if money isn't an issue then taxis can take the strain. If there are possessions of your mother that are of sentimental value and you or brother wish to have them, it's probably better to have that conversation with your dad.
Edited by hidetheelephants on Thursday 31st July 12:44
Have you spoken to 'Lovejoy'?
As in, sat him down for a cup of tea or taken him for a pint?
It may be a worthwhile time investment as, if he's genuine, he'll want to help you looking after your Dad.
This doesn't have to be an accusatory conversation, indeed you should of course make it clear that you don't doubt his intentions. However, you want to ensure that your family's.....cherished items are saved and not sold on accidentally by your Dad, therefore would appreciate his sharing of what your Dad is giving him so you can intervene if necessary.
If he gets shirty or raises more red flags, tell him to sling his hook and don't come back......
As in, sat him down for a cup of tea or taken him for a pint?
It may be a worthwhile time investment as, if he's genuine, he'll want to help you looking after your Dad.
This doesn't have to be an accusatory conversation, indeed you should of course make it clear that you don't doubt his intentions. However, you want to ensure that your family's.....cherished items are saved and not sold on accidentally by your Dad, therefore would appreciate his sharing of what your Dad is giving him so you can intervene if necessary.
If he gets shirty or raises more red flags, tell him to sling his hook and don't come back......
What seems questionable to me, is that the "friend" avoids being there when family are present..... I'd try to get father to tell you when he's coming and be there just to check and have a word with him as others have recommended.
Hopefully it's harmless, but knowing the world as it is, "trust is good but checking is better" to translate a german saying!
Hope it all goes well!
Hopefully it's harmless, but knowing the world as it is, "trust is good but checking is better" to translate a german saying!
Hope it all goes well!
Again, thanks for the ideas and suggestions.
In response to two posts with other useful suggestions...
Hearing aids - he simply refuses to address them. After much nagging he tried some non-NHS private ones, decided they were no better, took them back for a refund and that is the end of the matter now. We beg with him, highlight it means his social life will be effected and you get met with a shrug of the shoulders and that is the end of the matter.
Regarding old people dinner clubs - boy have we tried. There is literally one 100 metres down his road. The minibus collecting all the other old attendees literally passes the little narrow road 10 yards outside his kitchen window where you can see them all heading down for lunch. Dad simply refuses. Likewise, have tried getting him interested in men in sheds (he used to do a lot of woodwork). We have tried church groups. We have tried OAP fitness classes.
He simply finds a reason not to go. Often he doubles back to the fact he cannot hear well so no point (see point A....but then he refuses to try and fix that).
He won't do anything to help himself (and I mean anything) but then complains of his situation. He has never been much of an easy character to say the least, but its impossible to try to help someone that doesn't want to help themself.
In response to two posts with other useful suggestions...
Hearing aids - he simply refuses to address them. After much nagging he tried some non-NHS private ones, decided they were no better, took them back for a refund and that is the end of the matter now. We beg with him, highlight it means his social life will be effected and you get met with a shrug of the shoulders and that is the end of the matter.
Regarding old people dinner clubs - boy have we tried. There is literally one 100 metres down his road. The minibus collecting all the other old attendees literally passes the little narrow road 10 yards outside his kitchen window where you can see them all heading down for lunch. Dad simply refuses. Likewise, have tried getting him interested in men in sheds (he used to do a lot of woodwork). We have tried church groups. We have tried OAP fitness classes.
He simply finds a reason not to go. Often he doubles back to the fact he cannot hear well so no point (see point A....but then he refuses to try and fix that).
He won't do anything to help himself (and I mean anything) but then complains of his situation. He has never been much of an easy character to say the least, but its impossible to try to help someone that doesn't want to help themself.
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff