Thinking of changing my 991.1 GT3 for a 997.2 GT3
Discussion
Any views appreciated
My 991.1 is late 2014, Ive had it since 2018 and it's never missed a beat, 11k I only end up doing 1-2k a year at most. don't really do track days any more, in fact the 991.1 has only done 1 ! I've got PCCB and buckets and like the car. As I have a 997.2 Carrera I've grown to prefer the slightly smaller size. I don't need the 991.1 power any more TBH and still love manual so thinking the 997.2 might be better suited.
So thinking of looking around and driving a few. I think I'd like PCCB's as they are awesome on the 991.1 and I don't want comfort seats. any advice here. Guessing my car as a 2 owner high specced car will mean something like £20k ish to trade.
Am I mad, when I bought my 991.1 it was £20k more than a 997.2 ?
My 991.1 is late 2014, Ive had it since 2018 and it's never missed a beat, 11k I only end up doing 1-2k a year at most. don't really do track days any more, in fact the 991.1 has only done 1 ! I've got PCCB and buckets and like the car. As I have a 997.2 Carrera I've grown to prefer the slightly smaller size. I don't need the 991.1 power any more TBH and still love manual so thinking the 997.2 might be better suited.
So thinking of looking around and driving a few. I think I'd like PCCB's as they are awesome on the 991.1 and I don't want comfort seats. any advice here. Guessing my car as a 2 owner high specced car will mean something like £20k ish to trade.
Am I mad, when I bought my 991.1 it was £20k more than a 997.2 ?
Probably not mad, the 991.1 GT3 is going to be tough to move on as it becomes unwarrantable. I suppose followers and whatever else goes wrong with them are going to become the focus of places like Hartech and equivalents but that 3.8 will always have a “smell” about it unfortunately. Ultimately engines with big big service bills at mileages where cam components start to wear out and become expensive service items.
The Mezger however from the 997 is the stuff of legends, an engine for a generation of 993 and 996/7GT/Turbo buyers with proper motorsport provenance, so if nothing else I’d rather have my money in the Mezger. I have never driven the later GT3 so can’t comment on how well they go, but I suppose they're quicker by any measure or Porsche wouldn’t have signed off on them, just that I’d always be worried about that misfire and impending colossal engine bill, especially on racetracks.
The Mezger however from the 997 is the stuff of legends, an engine for a generation of 993 and 996/7GT/Turbo buyers with proper motorsport provenance, so if nothing else I’d rather have my money in the Mezger. I have never driven the later GT3 so can’t comment on how well they go, but I suppose they're quicker by any measure or Porsche wouldn’t have signed off on them, just that I’d always be worried about that misfire and impending colossal engine bill, especially on racetracks.
I have enjoyed my 997.2 GT3 for 6 years, the longest I have ever owned a car, they make fantastic road trip cars and I liked the non-cage but folding buckets spec + things like extended leather.
In that time it’s been super reliable it’s just had tyres (MP4S for road us), pads and discs, a new battery as it started not fully holding charge and suspension at Centre Gravity which enhanced its handling.
In my opinion the huge steel discs and regular pads are plenty for the road but understand you get less dust with PCCBs.
I had a 991.2 in GTS spec before the GT3 which felt much larger on the road albeit the actual foot print of the car isn’t much different.
Great car and good choice if you fancy a change.
In that time it’s been super reliable it’s just had tyres (MP4S for road us), pads and discs, a new battery as it started not fully holding charge and suspension at Centre Gravity which enhanced its handling.
In my opinion the huge steel discs and regular pads are plenty for the road but understand you get less dust with PCCBs.
I had a 991.2 in GTS spec before the GT3 which felt much larger on the road albeit the actual foot print of the car isn’t much different.
Great car and good choice if you fancy a change.
LemonTart said:
I have enjoyed my 997.2 GT3 for 6 years, the longest I have ever owned a car, they make fantastic road trip cars and I liked the non-cage but folding buckets spec + things like extended leather.
In that time it s been super reliable it s just had tyres (MP4S for road us), pads and discs, a new battery as it started not fully holding charge and suspension at Centre Gravity which enhanced its handling.
In my opinion the huge steel discs and regular pads are plenty for the road but understand you get less dust with PCCBs.
I had a 991.2 in GTS spec before the GT3 which felt much larger on the road albeit the actual foot print of the car isn t much different.
Great car and good choice if you fancy a change.
Not wishing to hijack this thread but exact same experience in my Mezger GT2, 40k miles driven by me, zero problems of note but 13 or 14 years of ownership. Only thing about this 991.2 turbo s I’ve just bought is that I’m sad it’s not a Mezger.In that time it s been super reliable it s just had tyres (MP4S for road us), pads and discs, a new battery as it started not fully holding charge and suspension at Centre Gravity which enhanced its handling.
In my opinion the huge steel discs and regular pads are plenty for the road but understand you get less dust with PCCBs.
I had a 991.2 in GTS spec before the GT3 which felt much larger on the road albeit the actual foot print of the car isn t much different.
Great car and good choice if you fancy a change.
supermono said:
Probably not mad, the 991.1 GT3 is going to be tough to move on as it becomes unwarrantable. I suppose followers and whatever else goes wrong with them are going to become the focus of places like Hartech and equivalents but that 3.8 will always have a smell about it unfortunately. Ultimately engines with big big service bills at mileages where cam components start to wear out and become expensive service items.
The Mezger however from the 997 is the stuff of legends, an engine for a generation of 993 and 996/7GT/Turbo buyers with proper motorsport provenance, so if nothing else I d rather have my money in the Mezger. I have never driven the later GT3 so can t comment on how well they go, but I suppose they're quicker by any measure or Porsche wouldn t have signed off on them, just that I d always be worried about that misfire and impending colossal engine bill, especially on racetracks.
I've read this many, many times. If the number of engines having problems was as significant as 'guessed' there would be far, far more stories. If this was really significant at the age of 10 years old Hartech would be offering a solution, like the .1 bore scoring. I don't believe its a slow grow issue it's more fail or not, so actually suspect if your engine has been fine it probably isThe Mezger however from the 997 is the stuff of legends, an engine for a generation of 993 and 996/7GT/Turbo buyers with proper motorsport provenance, so if nothing else I d rather have my money in the Mezger. I have never driven the later GT3 so can t comment on how well they go, but I suppose they're quicker by any measure or Porsche wouldn t have signed off on them, just that I d always be worried about that misfire and impending colossal engine bill, especially on racetracks.
I did my degree in automotive Engineering and have built F1 engines in the late 80's, so I understand the 'potential' issue. But suggesting the engine smells and it has no provenance is unfortunately not really answering the question !
My reason for change is not a concern about engine reliability. it's more about how they drive and the car overall.
Tbh it doesn t really matter it s 5 or 50 that have failed, it s like bore score, it the thing that most think when you say 991.1 gt3 and that s the tag it has.
Immaterial the numbers it s enough myth, rumour, (insert whatever) to make me never consider one, pity as it s made gen two prices very strong and that is where my money would go or, as you have questioned, a really good 997 gt3.
Immaterial the numbers it s enough myth, rumour, (insert whatever) to make me never consider one, pity as it s made gen two prices very strong and that is where my money would go or, as you have questioned, a really good 997 gt3.
The 991 will be a better car for sure. That said, engine issues, perceived, overblown or whatever, as well as a manual transmission offered in the 997 will be make them a good long term bet for values.
If you're going to do the switch and your 991 has an engine warranty, best to do the swap sooner rather than later. If it doesn't have an engine warranty, you'll soon learn why selling them on might be a challenge.
If you're going to do the switch and your 991 has an engine warranty, best to do the swap sooner rather than later. If it doesn't have an engine warranty, you'll soon learn why selling them on might be a challenge.
Let’s assume the retail price of a 991 GT3 like yours is £100k. Trade arguably £85k. I imagine a high spec 997.2 GT3 with buckets and PCCB is £120,000? TBH I’ve seen low mile 997.2 GT3s with steels for £120,000. Cost to change is maybe likely a little higher than you are estimating. All depends on how much you want a manual and if you are going to use it? If not I suspect better to just keep your nice example of a 991.1 GT3 and try and get it out on a few more track days. On road and track your 991 will blow the doors of any 996/997 GT3. Whilst I prefer the older 997 as they’re manuals and more engaging personally if I was already in a PDK 991 GT3 I’d enjoy the car I have 
This is the issue with GT3 SM alluding to. Hope it’s helpful.
This is the issue with GT3 SM alluding to. Hope it’s helpful.
Adrian-9iafn said:
I've read this many, many times. If the number of engines having problems was as significant as 'guessed' there would be far, far more stories. If this was really significant at the age of 10 years old Hartech would be offering a solution, like the .1 bore scoring. I don't believe its a slow grow issue it's more fail or not, so actually suspect if your engine has been fine it probably is
I did my degree in automotive Engineering and have built F1 engines in the late 80's, so I understand the 'potential' issue. But suggesting the engine smells and it has no provenance is unfortunately not really answering the question !
My reason for change is not a concern about engine reliability. it's more about how they drive and the car overall.
I guess you're right I didn't answer the question, I assumed wrongly that the engine problem potential was partly the reason you were thinking of switching to the Mezger. My mistake. Interesting that the .1 cars are 70% the price of .2 cars. If that's not a sign that the engines have a "smell" I'm not sure what is. Anyway, apologies for not answering your question. One thing we can agree on is whichever way you go, you'll be driving an incredible car! Keep us informed of your progress. I did my degree in automotive Engineering and have built F1 engines in the late 80's, so I understand the 'potential' issue. But suggesting the engine smells and it has no provenance is unfortunately not really answering the question !
My reason for change is not a concern about engine reliability. it's more about how they drive and the car overall.
I wonder if the engine thing is a more pronounced issue in the UK, in Germany at a glance it looks like the price spread from 1 to 2 is c. 25k or thereabouts, which seems like a pretty normal spread for older to newer model of a car that is not all that old yet. Plenty of cars with replacement engines.
There are also quite a few 997 GT cars with engine rebuilds or replacement engines. Just does not seem to be discussed as much as the 991, probably due to Porsche doing a recall instead of just sorting issues quietly whenever one has an issue.
There are also quite a few 997 GT cars with engine rebuilds or replacement engines. Just does not seem to be discussed as much as the 991, probably due to Porsche doing a recall instead of just sorting issues quietly whenever one has an issue.
to answer the question - I would change to a 997, I think they are amazing cars and the manual gives you that little bit more engagement when driving it just on the road / less relevant for a track car as you can get joy from driving it at the limit. To make the cost to change less painful, I would consider a 997.1 - imo also the better looking 997 GT version.
I'm a 7.2 GT3 fanboy, so biased in this regard. My vanilla 3 (in line with your preferred spec with PCCB and folding buckets and no cage) has done lots of milage over the years. Have used it for a long time as daily including in the snow in winter. It never missed a beat. I also have a 1.2 Touring, so not really comparable to your 1.1 GT3. The Touring has moved the game on objectively but the driving experience in the 7.2 is somehow more special.
I think I am appreciating that the reality is that the market is driven by sentiment and the perceived risk. I guess as time moves on there will be a fix and perhaps Porsche will stop extorting customers for cams if they are needed. There should be a method to check, maybe rocker covers, but a scope would be great.
Porsche should also provide a cost based (not huge margin based) kit that provides new followers and cams for early engines. My understanding is the issue was about tolerances originally (so the compound of tolerances) could caused increased loads if you were unlucky. I also understood that if the tolerance issue was not there the engine was as good as the later enegines. I do know a friend who did 30k miles almost exclusively on track and it was in his words bullet proof and the most reliable tack car he had !
Porsche should also provide a cost based (not huge margin based) kit that provides new followers and cams for early engines. My understanding is the issue was about tolerances originally (so the compound of tolerances) could caused increased loads if you were unlucky. I also understood that if the tolerance issue was not there the engine was as good as the later enegines. I do know a friend who did 30k miles almost exclusively on track and it was in his words bullet proof and the most reliable tack car he had !
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff