Validating smaller traders without premises?
Discussion
Hi,
I'm after a car for my kids as a learner car. Sort of things in my price range (sub £5k) are bringing up a lot of "traders" without convicing, or any, business premises.
In some cases, searches on Google Maps are not showing them at the claimed location (in this case there was another tiny trader there on Streetview with a different name) and in most cases, none of these are registered companies on Companies House. In one case, Google searches are taking me straight back to Autotrader and no where else.
I'm thinking they can't all be dodgy, surely? But what else can I do to verify the trader is legit?
I don't care about any so called warranty - I'll accept it's an old car and needs fixing and I can do my due diligence with an RAC history check and looking at the MOT history, especially Fails and Advisories.
All I want to be sure of is that the vendor has Good Title (ie actually owns or has permission to sell) the car they're selling.
Also - I'm feeling a bit wary of vendors who don't even take card payments but want cash or bank transfer. My physio who operates as a sole trader out of a barn has a card reader, so this feels a bit of a red flag.
The best one I've seen so far is a chap with a tiny oily yard fixing up cars - very 1980s - he at least has actual premises (in a farm business unit) and takes card payments.
Due digilence tips sought with enthusiasm please. I'm naturally untrusting, perhaps too much so?
Cheers -
I'm after a car for my kids as a learner car. Sort of things in my price range (sub £5k) are bringing up a lot of "traders" without convicing, or any, business premises.
In some cases, searches on Google Maps are not showing them at the claimed location (in this case there was another tiny trader there on Streetview with a different name) and in most cases, none of these are registered companies on Companies House. In one case, Google searches are taking me straight back to Autotrader and no where else.
I'm thinking they can't all be dodgy, surely? But what else can I do to verify the trader is legit?
I don't care about any so called warranty - I'll accept it's an old car and needs fixing and I can do my due diligence with an RAC history check and looking at the MOT history, especially Fails and Advisories.
All I want to be sure of is that the vendor has Good Title (ie actually owns or has permission to sell) the car they're selling.
Also - I'm feeling a bit wary of vendors who don't even take card payments but want cash or bank transfer. My physio who operates as a sole trader out of a barn has a card reader, so this feels a bit of a red flag.
The best one I've seen so far is a chap with a tiny oily yard fixing up cars - very 1980s - he at least has actual premises (in a farm business unit) and takes card payments.
Due digilence tips sought with enthusiasm please. I'm naturally untrusting, perhaps too much so?
Cheers -
Edited by Skwide on Monday 11th August 14:00
Good rule. So if it's a "magic roadside seller", I should be asking for personal ID that matches the V5C or some proof of ID of the business if that's what's on the V5.
If I wanted a no questions asked magic kerbside sale, I'd buy from my neighbour (which I don't want to, but you get the point)!
It's a pity the DVLA don't have a form to validate trade plates - that would be a start.
If I wanted a no questions asked magic kerbside sale, I'd buy from my neighbour (which I don't want to, but you get the point)!
It's a pity the DVLA don't have a form to validate trade plates - that would be a start.
Skwide said:
Also - I'm feeling a bit wary of vendors who don't even take card payments but want cash or bank transfer. My physio who operates as a sole trader out of a barn has a card reader, so this feels a bit of a red flag.
Not taking card payments, or at least pushing for customers not to pay with card because of the fees, seems to be a thing even main dealers are doing these days!Chris
ScoobyChris said:
Skwide said:
Also - I'm feeling a bit wary of vendors who don't even take card payments but want cash or bank transfer. My physio who operates as a sole trader out of a barn has a card reader, so this feels a bit of a red flag.
Not taking card payments, or at least pushing for customers not to pay with card because of the fees, seems to be a thing even main dealers are doing these days!Chris
paul_c123 said:
That would rule out any & every dealer.
I'm out of touch... So dealers don't have to register as a keeper?If so, that really rules out every roadside/wfh dealer - at least if you go in a premises with a sign, there's some assurance of permancy and evidence of existence of the business.
If proper dodgy, selling a motor with a serious fault, they'll likely have just taken a "pay as you go" sim, to just switch if off straight after you've paid your cash, and left.
Be wary of flats, when they just appear when you arrive. The dodgy ones will tell you a flat number, which isn't the truth of course.
That's the worse end of the scale. Google their phone number, if it brings up no previous adverts, then walk away.
There are some decent "from home" sellers. You just have to use your gut instinct.
Or my advice, buy from a local dealer who you know has had the site for some time.
Be wary of flats, when they just appear when you arrive. The dodgy ones will tell you a flat number, which isn't the truth of course.
That's the worse end of the scale. Google their phone number, if it brings up no previous adverts, then walk away.
There are some decent "from home" sellers. You just have to use your gut instinct.
Or my advice, buy from a local dealer who you know has had the site for some time.
Frankychops said:
I don't think its the fees, they don't like the protection you get from using a credit card. they claim fees, however offer to pay the 1.5% and you then get the next set of reasons
Perhaps I was naive in the 80s and 90s, but I don't remember it being such a minefield. It probably was, but I was less informed than now.I guess I only bought 2 cars from private sellers, acquired my Dad's old Fiat, bought 2 more from 2nd hand dealers with actual premises, and the other two cars were brand new.
Certainly turning out to be a very painful experience and it's not like I'm not used to buying rustbuckets.
Trevor555 said:
That's the worse end of the scale. Google their phone number, if it brings up no previous adverts, then walk away.
Good tip - I actually did this on one. He sounded quite refined - very smooth and middle class (but that means nothing of course).Few hits on the phone number - mostly just leading back to AutoTrader. Has a fancy website - going to see if that shows up in WayBackMachine (internet archive) and if so, how far back it goes.
I work in IT - I'm painfully aware how easy it is to build a convincing online persona...
Where are you? Deed and title arent terms used here, but the description of sellers sounds very familiar across the uk. Look for businesses that have been around for a while, whether driveway trader or dealer.
Better still buy privately from the person on the v5 and you can check how long they have had it, mot and service history, is there a shiny new car in the driveway etc
Dont buy online, use your feet and go and see cars.
Better still buy privately from the person on the v5 and you can check how long they have had it, mot and service history, is there a shiny new car in the driveway etc
Dont buy online, use your feet and go and see cars.
Skwide said:
I'm out of touch... So dealers don't have to register as a keeper?
Whenever you part with a car you tell DVLA that you're no longer the "keeper" and if it's sold into the trade you will tell them the name of the dealership/trader. You will receive your road tax refund from DVLA.Dealerships/traders don't need to SORN a vehicle that's in their possession pending sale and a genuine dealership or used car trader is able to pass a car through their hands without being recorded as a "keeper". However, if you have any doubts they will still be able to show you confirmation that the car is properly in their hands because they should have the previous owner's V5 and a contract of some sort for purchase of the car. When the car gets sold it's then taxed and registered into the name of the new keeper.
The bottom line is always that if you have any doubts - walk away.
1. You're buying the car, not dating the dealer
2. Best advice is to actually talk to them, like human beings did in recent times before the internet.
3. Size is no measure of quality (mostly).
There will always be obvious exceptions - normally the "the price is too good to be true" deals - where there IS something dodgy going on. These days, the dodgy stuff is done online, things like getting a deposit before and disappearing, etc. Its much less effort than meeting someone and doing some kind of underhand tricks. But the main thing is, you're buying a car. Just because its a trader, don't forget to check the things you'd check if buying privately. We have seen loads of threads on here about people "assuming" x y or z are done to the car just because they're a main dealer etc. So, do your checks before handing over money. And don't be pressured into, or fixating on, a single car.
People seem to have a blind trust of a main dealer and think they're automatically better, either in aftersales or the cars will just be better anyway. With the exception of eg franchised dealers who will have first pick of nice ex-PCP cars coming back to them after 2-3 years, the supply of cars is pretty even across the board. Main dealers will go to auction, the exact same pool of cars that a driveway trader can bid on. And there's a good amount of ex-lease stuff with low mileage and good cosmetic condition to choose from too. Main dealers can be exceedingly lazy, or ineffective, because everything they do can be ponderous with different departments doing the sourcing, transport, prep, selling, admin etc.
Just avoid the obvious crap, actually talk to them, go and physically see the car and talk to them in person etc.
2. Best advice is to actually talk to them, like human beings did in recent times before the internet.
3. Size is no measure of quality (mostly).
There will always be obvious exceptions - normally the "the price is too good to be true" deals - where there IS something dodgy going on. These days, the dodgy stuff is done online, things like getting a deposit before and disappearing, etc. Its much less effort than meeting someone and doing some kind of underhand tricks. But the main thing is, you're buying a car. Just because its a trader, don't forget to check the things you'd check if buying privately. We have seen loads of threads on here about people "assuming" x y or z are done to the car just because they're a main dealer etc. So, do your checks before handing over money. And don't be pressured into, or fixating on, a single car.
People seem to have a blind trust of a main dealer and think they're automatically better, either in aftersales or the cars will just be better anyway. With the exception of eg franchised dealers who will have first pick of nice ex-PCP cars coming back to them after 2-3 years, the supply of cars is pretty even across the board. Main dealers will go to auction, the exact same pool of cars that a driveway trader can bid on. And there's a good amount of ex-lease stuff with low mileage and good cosmetic condition to choose from too. Main dealers can be exceedingly lazy, or ineffective, because everything they do can be ponderous with different departments doing the sourcing, transport, prep, selling, admin etc.
Just avoid the obvious crap, actually talk to them, go and physically see the car and talk to them in person etc.
I work on the simple theory that I'm buying the car not the dealer, so I buy on condition/receipts & a VCheck/HPI Check.
A lot of small dealers don't want card payments due to the cost as they operate on small margins as long as you've done your checks whats the difference between a debit card payment vs a bank transfer?
A lot of small dealers won't take credit card payments as that leaves them overly exposed.
Do a HPI/VCheck & your covered.
You're over thinking this.
A lot of small dealers don't want card payments due to the cost as they operate on small margins as long as you've done your checks whats the difference between a debit card payment vs a bank transfer?
A lot of small dealers won't take credit card payments as that leaves them overly exposed.
Do a HPI/VCheck & your covered.
You're over thinking this.
98elise said:
twing said:
If not bothered about warranty why not just buy privately from someone who's used it daily?
This. When buying a cheap car its far better to buy from someone who's actually used it, and it will likely be cheaper.ZX10R NIN said:
Do a HPI/VCheck & your covered.
You're over thinking this.
I've had to challenge Hpi a few times over the years.You're over thinking this.
You simply get "we're only as good as the info we've been supplied"
That one was where a finance co forgot to register their financial interest in the car.
Another where the stolen car hadn't yet been reported because the owner was out of the country.
Hpi is NOT a 100% guarantee of title.
I was stuck at the New User 5 post limit... Apologies for not replying...
Why trader and not private: mostly time and the hassle of paying a private seller. Sub £2k, I'd take cash and always have done for cheap car buying and selling.
£5k is too much for that game for me, especially with banks getting arsey about large cash withdrawals.
Anyhow - someone said "Check out the AA car listings" and it turns out there is a small car used car place 3 miles away in a place I seldom drive past, that checks out fully (Ltd company, reviews on Google are good with very few negatives). They don't list on AutoTrader so didn't come across them.
Anyway - all great tips - thank you, I have a plan now...
Why trader and not private: mostly time and the hassle of paying a private seller. Sub £2k, I'd take cash and always have done for cheap car buying and selling.
£5k is too much for that game for me, especially with banks getting arsey about large cash withdrawals.
Anyhow - someone said "Check out the AA car listings" and it turns out there is a small car used car place 3 miles away in a place I seldom drive past, that checks out fully (Ltd company, reviews on Google are good with very few negatives). They don't list on AutoTrader so didn't come across them.
Anyway - all great tips - thank you, I have a plan now...
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