Registered keeper but not the driver
Discussion
Zor600 said:
Three years ago I gifted my car to a close relative, who sold it on to a scrap dealer cash in hand a few months after. I wrongly assumed the v5 stuff had been sorted.
Few months go by, I got parking tickets for the old car. I notified dvla myself that I sold the car, but mistakenly gave them the wrong month of when I sold the car by two months (got the dates mixed up - mistake number 2).
Now I have been accused of being in a hit and run RTC and being chased to cover costs of the vehicle damage (due to me being the registered keeper and them not being able to identify the driver at the time). I filed my CNBC defence based on the facts that I did not own the vehicle at the time and I was not the driver.
It has now been escalated to small claims court and I have a hearing date. I have the drivers details of who was driving at the crash (scrap dealer who the car was sold to, plus MiB online check confirmed it was insured on traders insurance which I didn’t hold at the time).
What I need to know is if I should go to court with this, as I am innocent and should not have to pay ££££ due to what is simply an admin error on my end.
I did have a topic here a few months ago when I initially got the claim form - the general advice given was that the case sounds like a load of rubbish (many members didn’t believe I was being truthful) and shouldn’t even reach court however here we are - any advice welcome
You already did this thread, in June. Few months go by, I got parking tickets for the old car. I notified dvla myself that I sold the car, but mistakenly gave them the wrong month of when I sold the car by two months (got the dates mixed up - mistake number 2).
Now I have been accused of being in a hit and run RTC and being chased to cover costs of the vehicle damage (due to me being the registered keeper and them not being able to identify the driver at the time). I filed my CNBC defence based on the facts that I did not own the vehicle at the time and I was not the driver.
It has now been escalated to small claims court and I have a hearing date. I have the drivers details of who was driving at the crash (scrap dealer who the car was sold to, plus MiB online check confirmed it was insured on traders insurance which I didn’t hold at the time).
What I need to know is if I should go to court with this, as I am innocent and should not have to pay ££££ due to what is simply an admin error on my end.
I did have a topic here a few months ago when I initially got the claim form - the general advice given was that the case sounds like a load of rubbish (many members didn’t believe I was being truthful) and shouldn’t even reach court however here we are - any advice welcome
I recall this from the June thread and I do not propose to go over old ground owing to the inconsistencies demonstrated in the original thread.
One thing I will say with some considerable knowledge is that those who are saying ‘it’ll get thrown out’ are giving you false hope. I assume that this is now listed for a hearing as it’s not vexatious. The case will run to a hearing conclusion. The lack of the claimant not agreeing to mediation is a moot-point and irrelevant. If I feel my claim is strong enough then I won’t mediate either - it dilutes your position.
One thing I will say with some considerable knowledge is that those who are saying ‘it’ll get thrown out’ are giving you false hope. I assume that this is now listed for a hearing as it’s not vexatious. The case will run to a hearing conclusion. The lack of the claimant not agreeing to mediation is a moot-point and irrelevant. If I feel my claim is strong enough then I won’t mediate either - it dilutes your position.
Zor600 said:
The basis of the claim is that I was the registered keeper. I was not the driver and can prove I was not at the scene. What could possibly make the claim strong enough to skip mediation?
What is the strength of evidence that you weren't at the scene? On the previous thread, you said a work schedule and a Google Timeline backed that up. Is there further, stronger evidence?And is it stronger than:
1. I never did the change of RK at the time
2. I eventually did a change of RK, with a date AFTER the incident occurred.
3. I never got a receipt from the scrap dealer when (if) I or my family friend I'd gifted it to, scrapped it. I am guessing they never actually recorded it as scrapped either.
4. I paid a parking ticket, which was dated AFTER the date you say it initially changed ownership (not sure if this is before/after the date of the incident).
5. I cancelled the insurance on or around the date you say it initially changed ownership.
Its complicated by the fact that its apparently gone through 2 changes of ownership (firstly to your family friend, then to a scrappie who didn't actually scrap it) It means you have no direct relationship with the alleged driver.
They don't have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt, that you were at the scene. All they have to do, is infer that the RK is also the driver. Then it is up to you to provide stronger evidence that this is not the case (AND if its a S.172 notice - which is a different thing entirely - you'd be required by law to give information reasonably in your power, as to who was the driver).
Using the "I cancelled the insurance" is not really strong evidence - all it means is you cancelled the insurance. The fact that its on a trader policy is interesting but it would take some effort for the other party to follow this line of enquiry (vs the easy, normal steps required to find RK).
Using the "I cancelled the insurance" is not really strong evidence - all it means is you cancelled the insurance. The fact that its on a trader policy is interesting but it would take some effort for the other party to follow this line of enquiry (vs the easy, normal steps required to find RK).
Zor600 said:
No, he wants nothing to do with it but I have his name and address. I did an MiB check for the insurance at the time of the accident and it was insured by a trader insurance which I have the policy number for and put in my defence.
I would think that if you can prove somebody else actively insured the car at the time, that supports the fact that you'd sold it.When you gave the car away, what happened with your insurance? did the new 'owner' insure it?
Have you set out your timeline and outline the evidence to the claimant?
If you were the claimant, what would you be doing at this point?
Does the claimant have all the information you can give him to steer him in the correct direction?
As registered keeper, you are responsible for accounting for the vehicle to DVLA, plod etc.
You have committed offences by not reporting stuff,
I don't know to what extent you are liable to 3rd parties for civil claims. If any?
I would be finding out. From a proper source not just the consensus on here.
Richard-390a0 said:
Gifted it but didn't do the Billy Basics of the informing the DVLA which can be done in a matter of minutes online!?! 
On his other thread he did not mention gifting it to anybody, simply said he sold it to a scrappy.Methinks there is something going on here, such as trying to get out of something.
I concur. Lots of holes in this story which would soon unravel in CX. OP was under the impression, rightly or wrongly and supported by some other responses that as the Claimant had not mediated then he would achieve a guaranteed strike-out on that basis.
Edited by ADJimbo on Saturday 16th August 18:00
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