Accident fault whilst using "driverless" features
Discussion
Hi all, long time lurker, infrequent poster here.
I find myself being frequently enraged at the competence of other drivers - middle laners, mobile phone (in hand) users, parking on zig zags - all kinds of things just down right inconsiderate to other road users. Today I think I might have topped them all...
Today I was joining the motorway via a slip road that has 2 lanes, but like many others - the 2 lanes just magically turn into 1 wide lane and eventually the single "lane" where you need to be speed matched and moving over. Note - there is no signs or merge symbols, it seems the norm that the centre white line on the slip road just ends.
I was car number 3 or 4 in the queue to join, and I noticed a BMW X5 (73 plate, 40i for reference) coming up behind me at pace down the slip road. I could see the centre white line was ending soon and it very quickly narrows after this. The X5 proceeded to overtake, and at the moment the white lines ended, it was along side me. I started to brake to back us out of the danger, but so did the X5 due to the speed they were carrying and the lack of a gap on the motorway to join in to on their right (we still had another 300 - 500 meters of 'single lane' slip to speed match so I was happy I was going to manage before this occurred). By this point I'm both braking, and moving over to straddle the rumble strip onto the hard shoulder. Note - not attempting to defend my position but backing out of what is unfolding as quickly and safely as I can. Fine for me - I've managed to back out of the situation and have good breathing room. The X5 now accelerates into what isn't really a gap in my opinion; but great they're on the motorway. However they've accelerated so much they now have taken a position in lane 1, so far 'up' the road that the car that was in front of me can't join, as the X5 is now in what was their gap. I see this unfolding and stay well back allowing that car to filter in behind the X5, and I use the full length of slip road to filter in behind the car that originally prevented the X5 joining the motorway whilst along side me.
This in my opinion was a silly move that escalated due to poor timing of everything else happening at the same time - but it's on par with what I see every week to be honest. This is where it gets really good...
Another 20 miles or so up the road and we just so happen to be going to the same retail park! I Follow the X5 in and park a safe distance away and go to present my case of how dangerous that move was... his response... "I wasn't driving" I'm sorry - I've followed you this whole way you can't have swapped seats? "No I wasn't driving.... BMW was driving" (clearly referring to some auto pilot features). I explain that even I could see it happening so took evasive action for the sake of us all, maybe he could have seen it happening too?...
"Well I wasn't driving... these cars need to collect data or they'll never learn"
So you'd have let an accident happen just so the auto pilot can collect data?
This just went back and forth with me arguing he bears utter responsibility for the vehicle, and him saying the car was in control.
As I've stated above - this isn't the worst driving I have seen, but the shear arrogance, ignorance and negligence (IMO) is a pure reflection of other drivers and I would argue our wider population "nothing is my problem".
To answer my own question, I'm fairly certain if there was an accident the driver is responsible - I was just flabbergasted by the guys disregard for his (or the cars) actions.
Rant over and happy Friday.
Scott.
I find myself being frequently enraged at the competence of other drivers - middle laners, mobile phone (in hand) users, parking on zig zags - all kinds of things just down right inconsiderate to other road users. Today I think I might have topped them all...
Today I was joining the motorway via a slip road that has 2 lanes, but like many others - the 2 lanes just magically turn into 1 wide lane and eventually the single "lane" where you need to be speed matched and moving over. Note - there is no signs or merge symbols, it seems the norm that the centre white line on the slip road just ends.
I was car number 3 or 4 in the queue to join, and I noticed a BMW X5 (73 plate, 40i for reference) coming up behind me at pace down the slip road. I could see the centre white line was ending soon and it very quickly narrows after this. The X5 proceeded to overtake, and at the moment the white lines ended, it was along side me. I started to brake to back us out of the danger, but so did the X5 due to the speed they were carrying and the lack of a gap on the motorway to join in to on their right (we still had another 300 - 500 meters of 'single lane' slip to speed match so I was happy I was going to manage before this occurred). By this point I'm both braking, and moving over to straddle the rumble strip onto the hard shoulder. Note - not attempting to defend my position but backing out of what is unfolding as quickly and safely as I can. Fine for me - I've managed to back out of the situation and have good breathing room. The X5 now accelerates into what isn't really a gap in my opinion; but great they're on the motorway. However they've accelerated so much they now have taken a position in lane 1, so far 'up' the road that the car that was in front of me can't join, as the X5 is now in what was their gap. I see this unfolding and stay well back allowing that car to filter in behind the X5, and I use the full length of slip road to filter in behind the car that originally prevented the X5 joining the motorway whilst along side me.
This in my opinion was a silly move that escalated due to poor timing of everything else happening at the same time - but it's on par with what I see every week to be honest. This is where it gets really good...
Another 20 miles or so up the road and we just so happen to be going to the same retail park! I Follow the X5 in and park a safe distance away and go to present my case of how dangerous that move was... his response... "I wasn't driving" I'm sorry - I've followed you this whole way you can't have swapped seats? "No I wasn't driving.... BMW was driving" (clearly referring to some auto pilot features). I explain that even I could see it happening so took evasive action for the sake of us all, maybe he could have seen it happening too?...
"Well I wasn't driving... these cars need to collect data or they'll never learn"
So you'd have let an accident happen just so the auto pilot can collect data?
This just went back and forth with me arguing he bears utter responsibility for the vehicle, and him saying the car was in control.
As I've stated above - this isn't the worst driving I have seen, but the shear arrogance, ignorance and negligence (IMO) is a pure reflection of other drivers and I would argue our wider population "nothing is my problem".
To answer my own question, I'm fairly certain if there was an accident the driver is responsible - I was just flabbergasted by the guys disregard for his (or the cars) actions.
Rant over and happy Friday.
Scott.
We’ve been away the past two weeks. We drove through France to spain and then back. The difference it driving was flabbergasting. Courteous and patient. It was a joy tbh. Lane discipline was out of this world compared to here. Just to caveat Paris was slightly more intense as we made our way round but still miles better than here.
The second we landed from the ferry it was appalling and not just the people getting off it.
The aggression and selfishness we have on our roads is astonishing. I’m surprised we don’t have more accidents than we do.
The second we landed from the ferry it was appalling and not just the people getting off it.
The aggression and selfishness we have on our roads is astonishing. I’m surprised we don’t have more accidents than we do.
Mad Maximus said:
We’ve been away the past two weeks. We drove through France to spain and then back. The difference it driving was flabbergasting. Courteous and patient. It was a joy tbh. Lane discipline was out of this world compared to here. Just to caveat Paris was slightly more intense as we made our way round but still miles better than here.
The second we landed from the ferry it was appalling and not just the people getting off it.
The aggression and selfishness we have on our roads is astonishing. I’m surprised we don’t have more accidents than we do.
Let's be honest it's not just the roads , society in Britain is rotten to the core nowadays , very few give AF .The second we landed from the ferry it was appalling and not just the people getting off it.
The aggression and selfishness we have on our roads is astonishing. I’m surprised we don’t have more accidents than we do.
SydneyBridge said:
What a dick...
Are the auto pilot features even legal to be used in this country
Like to see him tell that to a traffic cop
It wouldn’t be available if you weren’t allowed to use it. It was probably lane keep and tacc. Totally the drivers fault though as he should have seen the issue.Are the auto pilot features even legal to be used in this country
Like to see him tell that to a traffic cop
Edited by SydneyBridge on Friday 15th August 17:36
BMW offers partially automated driving features in other models, like the 5 Series, with systems like the BMW Highway Assistant and Active Lane Change Assist.
These systems assist with speed regulation, lane keeping, and maneuvering at higher speeds, but require the driver to remain alert and ready to take over.
Level 3 in 7 series only.
Level 3 Highly automated driving.
The technological leap from Level 2 to Level 3 is very challenging indeed, and at BMW it is underpinned by a comprehensive safety concept. When it comes to keeping control in complex traffic situations, the successful interplay between top sensor systems, real-time-capable HD mapping and reliable detection of traffic events is fundamental. With highly automated operations, however, drivers must still be able to take over the controls in a matter of seconds. In Germany, BMW has already obtained approval for its Level 3 assistance systems, which will soon be rolled out in the BMW 7 Series.
https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/innovation/automated-d...
So the driver you met in the X5 is a dangerous fantasist
These systems assist with speed regulation, lane keeping, and maneuvering at higher speeds, but require the driver to remain alert and ready to take over.
Level 3 in 7 series only.
Level 3 Highly automated driving.
The technological leap from Level 2 to Level 3 is very challenging indeed, and at BMW it is underpinned by a comprehensive safety concept. When it comes to keeping control in complex traffic situations, the successful interplay between top sensor systems, real-time-capable HD mapping and reliable detection of traffic events is fundamental. With highly automated operations, however, drivers must still be able to take over the controls in a matter of seconds. In Germany, BMW has already obtained approval for its Level 3 assistance systems, which will soon be rolled out in the BMW 7 Series.
https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/innovation/automated-d...
So the driver you met in the X5 is a dangerous fantasist
Too much tech.
Naturally if you take functions away from the driver then when those functions fail and/or cause an accident, the driver feels less responsible.
The idea of cars going around the roadways like cans of beans on a factory conveyor belt is appealing to some - but when it all goes wrong, human nature will return with a vengeance. Humans are beings not beans.
Naturally if you take functions away from the driver then when those functions fail and/or cause an accident, the driver feels less responsible.
The idea of cars going around the roadways like cans of beans on a factory conveyor belt is appealing to some - but when it all goes wrong, human nature will return with a vengeance. Humans are beings not beans.
Sheepshanks said:
Chris Peacock said:
Absolutely. He knew full well he was driving like a dick but wasn't man enough to own up to it.
Sounds like he was making it up to deflect the argument. The car would freak out rather than drive itself get into a dangerous position.Ham_and_Jam said:
Sheepshanks said:
Chris Peacock said:
Absolutely. He knew full well he was driving like a dick but wasn't man enough to own up to it.
Sounds like he was making it up to deflect the argument. The car would freak out rather than drive itself get into a dangerous position.
k me he was psychotic. And I knew him too, as a neighbour of my parents and generally nice guy too, so I proactively sought him out after hearing he'd been around the village shop challenging others as to whether they were witnesses of my driving as he'd "had enough". There was absolutely nothing wrong with what I was doing, he was just a Peugeout driving accountant in south west Scotland, but I subsequently modified it in the knowledge that people like him would be giving witness statements so I don't just drive safely, I make it obviously safe to morons. So he did teach me a useful lesson that day. Less need to do it now with my own dashcam but I'm still aware of dashcam warriors and general other driver perception. Can't remember his name now but thanks you psychotic bald bd, I think we liked each other really. The second though - he was a random walt who didn't like me leaving a motorway at speed rather than queuing unnecessarily behind a lorry in lane 1 for 500 yards. Absolutely nothing to learn and I'm not going to stop driving like that, in a perfectly normal way for anyone capable of looking ahead of the vehicle in front. So I just agreed with everything he said to get him to go away. My suspicion is that is how BMW perceived you OP (regardless of rights or wrong). It just doesn't sound like "driverless" driving. It sounds like "no brain" driving.
Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Sunday 17th August 00:41
Ham_and_Jam said:
Sheepshanks said:
Chris Peacock said:
Absolutely. He knew full well he was driving like a dick but wasn't man enough to own up to it.
Sounds like he was making it up to deflect the argument. The car would freak out rather than drive itself get into a dangerous position.Traumatised man reports horrific roadrage incident on the way to Homebase.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff