944 S2 Supercharging ATTN : Danww / Ninemeister

[944tom]

Firstly I would like to resurrect [url]THIS|http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=166580[/url] link!!

Danww - I guess by the picture in your profile you went for a 993!!!! How come you didn’t go for the S/C in the 944 S2?

Has anyone else gone for a road going supercharger for a 944 / 68?

Ninemeister - (Chris is it?) Is there any further developments/info in the S/C for a 944 S2?

I have booked my S2 in and I am dropping it off with you next Monday afternoon (for brakes and things), if you are around then, maybe we can discuss further developments/costs for the S/C package then?


Tom

[danww]

944tom said:

Firstly I would like to resurrect THIS link!! Danww - I guess by the picture in your profile you went for a 993!!!! How come you didn’t go for the S/C in the 944 S2? Tom

You are right I went for a 993. Basically I only have room for one "toy" like this and I decided it really had to be a 911. I was pretty heart broken at selling the 944 though as it was so good. And I'd spent so much money on it.

If I had the space I would definitely have kept it, and if the opportunity comes up I will definitely get another.

Re. the supercharger I was rather concerned about the relative cost of the S/C kit and that of the car itself. So if I did it again I thnk I would try to start with either a Turbo or an M030 equipped S2 or a 968 if the price was right but I don't really think a 968 is worth (more than) twice as much as an S2.

AND I'd get one with air con.

I am idly considering absurd upgrades for the 993 including the 9M S/C or a RUF BTR conversion. But early days as yet.

Dan

[cyberface]

danww said:

I am idly considering absurd upgrades for the 993 including the 9M S/C or a RUF BTR conversion. But early days as yet. Dan

go on, you know it makes sense

[944tom]

Danww said:

I was rather concerned about the relative cost of the S/C kit and that of the car itself

For some reason that does not bother me much!!?!?!

Danww said:

AND I'd get one with air con

I presume you mean the 944 you had - Well thats the only thing I regret about my 944 - No Aircon !!!!


Back to the point -

Just researching the 9M website, The S/C kit for the 944 gives 350 Bhp and 326lbft, The S/C kit for the 3.6 911 gives 330-340bhp and over 300lbft at peak.

So basically the same, if not slightly more for the 944 kit.

So the question is - If you had a 944 S2, a 993 C2 and a 964 C2 all with the same power, which one would be faster? Which has the best Chassis and balance?

Food for thought!

The only difference I see is that the 993 / 964 S/C kit has been tried and tested more.

Any comments welcome!!

Tom

[AJLintern]

944tom said:

Which has the best Chassis and balance?

I think we all know the answer to that one

[danww]

Yes, the air con comment referred to the 944, it did get rather hot without it.

I think the 944 has a LOT of advantages over the 911 not least of which are cost and practicality.

However, the 911 has that indefinable Je ne sais quoi that just makes it for me.

Dan

[danww]

944tom said:

Just researching the 9M website, The S/C kit for the 944 gives 350 Bhp and 326lbft, The S/C kit for the 3.6 911 gives 330-340bhp and over 300lbft at peak. Tom

The RUF BTR conversion gives 420BHP. I understand it also includes various other bits, like suspension, wheels and brakes, but the price is a bit eye-watering.

This is a long term project for me (min 18 months if at all), but I guess a careful comparison of the 9M approach (plus extras) to the RUF one is called for.

Dan

[ninemeister]

Thanks for bringing this up again, I guess you guys were pretty much due an update.

We have got the 968 supercharger package pretty much nailed now and are getting ready to fit 9m package #3. Our own development 968CS makes over 350bhp (300bhp at the tyre) with standard exhaust & mass flow, the first customer car making a fraction more with the larger production intercooler/radiator package.
The third conversion is in the shop now and is interestingly a 944S2 that is having 968 engine & box fitted with the blower which leads us naturally onto the 944S2 fitment issues. The first problem is the intercooler because our full height / full width unit will not fit the 944 aperture, but the universal design of the 944 front end allows us to simply use the 951 intercooler.
The major problem we are thus left with is the engine management, because the S2 runs on a flap air flow meter whereas the 968 has a mass flow (that we have spent a fortune on remapping correctly). I guess we will make the decision how to solve this delema when the first order comes in, but worst case scenario would be to retrofit the 968 ecu and loom, abandon the cam control function and simply remap it accordingly.

[MartinD]

944tom said:

Just researching the 9M website, The S/C kit for the 944 gives 350 Bhp and 326lbft, The S/C kit for the 3.6 911 gives 330-340bhp and over 300lbft at peak. So basically the same, if not slightly more for the 944 kit. So the question is - If you had a 944 S2, a 993 C2 and a 964 C2 all with the same power, which one would be faster? Which has the best Chassis and balance? Food for thought! The only difference I see is that the 993 / 964 S/C kit has been tried and tested more. Any comments welcome!! Tom

FYI, the 928 has several S/C kits available for it now,all tried & tested ( & a turbo kit soon)
These are DIY bolt-on complete kits
400-450 bhp/450 ft Ib depending on kit/stage
The cars with a few mods have 525-550 bhp.
These are all at the wheels bhp figs. !!
cost £4500-£5500 depending on kit/stage

[944tom]

AJLintern said:

I think we all know the answer to that one

Yes - But what I just been reminded of is that a 911 has a lot more weight over the back wheels and will therefore be able to use more of the power!

danww said:

Yes, the air con comment referred to the 944, it did get rather hot without it.

I don't have and LSD or M030 Suspension either - which is giving me doubts about the upgrade to my current car - It may even be better for me to sell mine and find another 944 with all three options!

danww said:

The RUF BTR conversion gives 420BHP. I understand it also includes various other bits, like suspension, wheels and brakes, but the price is a bit eye-watering. This is a long term project for me (min 18 months if at all), but I guess a careful comparison of the 9M approach (plus extras) to the RUF one is called for.

Well Ruf would be nice on any Porka! I see it as the 944 S/C kit and a 944 S2 would cost about the same as a 964 C2. So the cost per Bhp is best in the 944 S2 + S/C option!

[944tom]

ninemeister said:

The major problem we are thus left with is the engine management, because the S2 runs on a flap air flow meter whereas the 968 has a mass flow (that we have spent a fortune on remapping correctly). I guess we will make the decision how to solve this delema when the first order comes in

So I could possibly be the first 944 S2 S/C

Hopefully I'll speak to you on Monday......

[944tom]

MartinD said:

FYI, the 928 has several S/C kits available for it now,all tried & tested ( & a turbo kit soon) These are DIY bolt-on complete kits 400-450 bhp/450 ft Ib depending on kit/stage The cars with a few mods have 525-550 bhp. These are all at the wheels bhp figs. !! cost £4500-£5500 depending on kit/stage

I have not been completely reassured on the reliability and running costs of the 928. Also, from what I have picked up here and there, it would cost £10-15k to get a decent 928 and if I'm spending that much, I'd get a 964!

[944tom]

Oh - and thanks for all the replies

[diver944]

ninemeister said:

because the S2 runs on a flap air flow meter

Colin, speak to Andrew at PromaxMotorsport. He has just started importing a MAF kit for all 944s with the barn door AFM that uses a Bosch HFM5 MAF and connects to the standard DME.

[ninemeister]

Buying underdeveloped kits from the USA was the direct reason why we decided to do our own supercharger conversion for the 968. Read into this what you will.

We know that a MAF conversion can be made to work, but the issue is not just the MAF, it is the week's work on the dyno to map the ecu/MAF combination correctly. Unless I can sell more than one 944S2 kit it will probably be cheaper to retrofit a used 968 ecu & loom rather than custom remap one ecu at £100/hour, but we will look into it in more detail when we have the deposit in the bank and the car in the shop.