Head gasket estimated cost (968 Sport)
Discussion
I appreciate responses to this will vary depending on factors like location but has anyone had the head gasket replaced on a classic porsche, and if so how eye-watering was the bill? (And what else should I expect to potentially be picked up during the process?)
I purchased a 1994 968 Sport a few weeks ago and one morning after having had nothing but faultless drives, encountered overheating issues. Pulled over and let it cool down, then limped to the nearest specialist (thankfully pretty local) with heating on full blast to keep the gauge below the max.
I'm now waiting on the garage to give me a estimate for a new head gasket (they charge £144 ph labour) and approximate time frame (I'm guessing about 1-2 days work?)
Not the news I wanted on a Friday morning but hey, someone's got to keep these 30 year old cars on the road!
I purchased a 1994 968 Sport a few weeks ago and one morning after having had nothing but faultless drives, encountered overheating issues. Pulled over and let it cool down, then limped to the nearest specialist (thankfully pretty local) with heating on full blast to keep the gauge below the max.
I'm now waiting on the garage to give me a estimate for a new head gasket (they charge £144 ph labour) and approximate time frame (I'm guessing about 1-2 days work?)
Not the news I wanted on a Friday morning but hey, someone's got to keep these 30 year old cars on the road!
Unfortunately they've done 2+ hours diagnostics already and about 3 hrs labour on a coolant flush because the reservoir was frothing and coolant levels kept fluctuating.
Initially they thought the previous owner may have put screenwash in due to the number of air bubbles but that would've been a best case scenario! After the flush they left it overnight and next day it was below the minimum again (but definitely not leaking).
I didn't notice any milky residue in the oil or anything (perhaps a slight loss of power..) but the garage will confirm this week- they sounded pretty sure it pointed to the gasket but I'm a pessimist so may be jumping the gun a bit! (Also trying frantically to sell my old car to afford whatever's coming
)
Initially they thought the previous owner may have put screenwash in due to the number of air bubbles but that would've been a best case scenario! After the flush they left it overnight and next day it was below the minimum again (but definitely not leaking).
I didn't notice any milky residue in the oil or anything (perhaps a slight loss of power..) but the garage will confirm this week- they sounded pretty sure it pointed to the gasket but I'm a pessimist so may be jumping the gun a bit! (Also trying frantically to sell my old car to afford whatever's coming
) Edited by SFIELDS on Sunday 17th August 10:11
Orangecurry said:
Just off the top of my head, knowing no details about anything else - take it somewhere else.
My Indy charges half of that.
I'm tempted- recovering the car is another blow but the labour charge at this place does seem excessive. Can anyone recommend a specialist in Kent? My Indy charges half of that.
andrewcliffe said:
On many cars, a head gasket failure is often a result of another problem, and until that problem is rectified, any replacement gasket may fail soon.
True. Will be interesting to know what has caused it, if the diagnosis is correct. She's done 150,000 miles but it might be more than wear and tear.Quite common on the 968. The gaskets rots away and due to the open deck design, the rear cylinders get less cooling. Sometimes the cylinders are scored as a result. As the gaskets gets worse, it fails between the cooling jacket & cylinder (which sounds like your symptoms) and pressurises the cooling system. Inevitably the head will need a skim and it makes sense to do the cam chain, guides and belts whilst in there. Cams might be ok, but the gears on them do wear.
La Rose and Ptoject9 are specialists in Kent.
La Rose and Ptoject9 are specialists in Kent.
Orangecurry said:
If not already done, I would join specialist 968 forums - PH is great for arguing 
but other websites have better detailed knowledge and a more active following for the older cars.
YMMV.
Good advice- I was going to join PorscheClubGB and explore their threads out of general interest, but now it's not exactly a financial priority but other websites have better detailed knowledge and a more active following for the older cars.YMMV.
Will have a dig about for more specific sites to prattle on
LarJammer said:
Quite common on the 968. The gaskets rots away and due to the open deck design, the rear cylinders get less cooling. Sometimes the cylinders are scored as a result. As the gaskets gets worse, it fails between the cooling jacket & cylinder (which sounds like your symptoms) and pressurises the cooling system. Inevitably the head will need a skim and it makes sense to do the cam chain, guides and belts whilst in there. Cams might be ok, but the gears on them do wear.
La Rose and Ptoject9 are specialists in Kent.
Thanks, appreciate the intel! Sounds about right tbh. La Rose is who I ended up with- they have very good reviews but at a cost! I suspect any others in the area that do a decent job won't be miles off either, but will see what the other place suggest La Rose and Ptoject9 are specialists in Kent.
SFIELDS said:
Unfortunately they've done 2+ hours diagnostics already and about 3 hrs labour on a coolant flush because the reservoir was frothing and coolant levels kept fluctuating.
Initially they thought the previous owner may have put screenwash in due to the number of air bubbles but that would've been a best case scenario! After the flush they left it overnight and next day it was below the minimum again (but definitely not leaking).
I didn't notice any milky residue in the oil or anything (perhaps a slight loss of power..) but the garage will confirm this week- they sounded pretty sure it pointed to the gasket but I'm a pessimist so may be jumping the gun a bit! (Also trying frantically to sell my old car to afford whatever's coming)
This is some crazy sInitially they thought the previous owner may have put screenwash in due to the number of air bubbles but that would've been a best case scenario! After the flush they left it overnight and next day it was below the minimum again (but definitely not leaking).
I didn't notice any milky residue in the oil or anything (perhaps a slight loss of power..) but the garage will confirm this week- they sounded pretty sure it pointed to the gasket but I'm a pessimist so may be jumping the gun a bit! (Also trying frantically to sell my old car to afford whatever's coming
) Edited by SFIELDS on Sunday 17th August 10:11
t, man. £144 per hour, 5 hours already, plus coolant, so you’re already in for £1k and the car isn’t fixed. If I were you I’d be drawing up a spreadsheet to see if it’s worth the expense or get shot, presumably what the previous owner did. Or get the car back and do one of those chemical tests for head gasket failure. Sam Crac (YouTube) has a good video on a 997that he managed to fix with some chemicals.
I’ve always said that if you want to run one of these old Porsches and rely on a shop to fix things, it’ll bankrupt you. Good luck.
maz8062 said:
This is some crazy st, man. £144 per hour, 5 hours already, plus coolant, so you’re already in for £1k and the car isn’t fixed. If I were you I’d be drawing up a spreadsheet to see if it’s worth the expense or get shot, presumably what the previous owner did.
Or get the car back and do one of those chemical tests for head gasket failure. Sam Crac (YouTube) has a good video on a 997that he managed to fix with some chemicals.
I’ve always said that if you want to run one of these old Porsches and rely on a shop to fix things, it’ll bankrupt you. Good luck.
Yup. Annoyingly I'd just purchased all the bits to do a coolant flush, oil change, filters, spark plugs etc myself when the need arose so it was frustrating to have to let the garage do it this time.t, man. £144 per hour, 5 hours already, plus coolant, so you’re already in for £1k and the car isn’t fixed. If I were you I’d be drawing up a spreadsheet to see if it’s worth the expense or get shot, presumably what the previous owner did. Or get the car back and do one of those chemical tests for head gasket failure. Sam Crac (YouTube) has a good video on a 997that he managed to fix with some chemicals.
I’ve always said that if you want to run one of these old Porsches and rely on a shop to fix things, it’ll bankrupt you. Good luck.
Just got an estimate through for 2.5k on the head gasket (inc. water pump & cam belt if required) - that's if the £190 borescopes check shows it is indeed the gasket that's gone.
To be fair I got the car in a PH auction for an absolute bargain so did have that niggling feeling of "it's too good to be true"- but even if I spend 2k or so on her the total price is still well under what they're going for privately sold.
I knew what I signed up for with an old high mileage car but just didnt expect things to go wrong quite so soon!
Samcrac is a great channel, I'll check that one out. Cheers!
Edited by SFIELDS on Monday 18th August 11:35
Edited by SFIELDS on Monday 18th August 14:10
Replying to my own thread just to update anyone interested.
Turns out the head gasket wasn't the worst of it. The cylinder head went off for skimming as part of the work and then I was told it was fractured so I needed an entirely new one! Had a look at refurb options but a brand new one ended up being the best way to go at £200 more than a slightly dodgy used one.
Long and short of it is, my new bill from the specialists is £7k. That's more than half the value of the car.
I've never been so stressed financially before. Managed to sell my old car to cover some of it (that was meant to be my house deposit, so now I'm stuck for accommodation for another few years) but it's still a stretch and I feel like the seller should've mentioned issues on the ad.
A local garage was surprised to hear I got the car via PistonHeads as they're a reputable firm and generally well respected. He said as the issues started just a couple of weeks into ownership that I should contact PH about it, but IMO what can they do.. I'd wanted to get a full inspection of the car before the sale went through, but the owner said he was going away that weekend so it was then or never. It did feel very rushed which is why you should always take off your rose tinted glasses before signing
Seller was a nice chap, seemed genuine but maybe had used head gasket sealant to let it slip under the net?
I'm suspicious because I barely got to use the car before it overheated that one time. The cyclinder head fracture must have occurred over a longer period of overheating, therefore not under my ownership, and probably hence the sale.
If anyone has any advice I'd appreciate it, although seems unlikely anything can be done other than for me to learn a very very hard lesson.
Turns out the head gasket wasn't the worst of it. The cylinder head went off for skimming as part of the work and then I was told it was fractured so I needed an entirely new one! Had a look at refurb options but a brand new one ended up being the best way to go at £200 more than a slightly dodgy used one.
Long and short of it is, my new bill from the specialists is £7k. That's more than half the value of the car.
I've never been so stressed financially before. Managed to sell my old car to cover some of it (that was meant to be my house deposit, so now I'm stuck for accommodation for another few years) but it's still a stretch and I feel like the seller should've mentioned issues on the ad.
A local garage was surprised to hear I got the car via PistonHeads as they're a reputable firm and generally well respected. He said as the issues started just a couple of weeks into ownership that I should contact PH about it, but IMO what can they do.. I'd wanted to get a full inspection of the car before the sale went through, but the owner said he was going away that weekend so it was then or never. It did feel very rushed which is why you should always take off your rose tinted glasses before signing
Seller was a nice chap, seemed genuine but maybe had used head gasket sealant to let it slip under the net?
I'm suspicious because I barely got to use the car before it overheated that one time. The cyclinder head fracture must have occurred over a longer period of overheating, therefore not under my ownership, and probably hence the sale.
If anyone has any advice I'd appreciate it, although seems unlikely anything can be done other than for me to learn a very very hard lesson.
I feel for you and it would niggle me that the seller knew what was happening with the car but I guess on a private sale their is not much that can be done and proving that he knew would be difficult! One to move on with probably but they are great cars and now get some enjoyment out of it,
Sadly you have little come back in a private sale unless the seller had said things which turned out not to be true. And proving that and taking action are pretty hard.
However it may be worth contacting them. Although you should have done that as soon as you had the problem. Maybe you did?
Two examples I have. I bought a 73 911 and it was nothing like what was claimed by the seller. It's a long story of ins and outs. In the end the seller was decent and gave me a big chunk back.
I sold a caterham and a week later the HG let go. If had nothing to indicate a problem. However I felt bad for the buyer and gave a contribution back to having it fixed.
Worth a try perhaps?
However it may be worth contacting them. Although you should have done that as soon as you had the problem. Maybe you did?
Two examples I have. I bought a 73 911 and it was nothing like what was claimed by the seller. It's a long story of ins and outs. In the end the seller was decent and gave me a big chunk back.
I sold a caterham and a week later the HG let go. If had nothing to indicate a problem. However I felt bad for the buyer and gave a contribution back to having it fixed.
Worth a try perhaps?
I also feel for you, what an absolute nightmare.
For a start I absolutely hate this type of selling where the likes of PH (and others) make a shedload of money for very little outlay. Yes traditional auctions are also a risk when buying but at least the cars are all sold under the same roof (hence overheads and so why the auction house charge a fee) and you could view them and bid in the flesh.
Secondly.
Quite simply (they may well be bloody fantastic)) but £144 an hour labour rate is a bit of a piss take imo.
I appreciate you were kind of in the dark when the car initially went there but in future unless it s a specific 968 issue, then just use a local spannering garage as it s mainly old skool mechanics to keep these cars on the road.
My 993 gets all its mechanical needs sorted by an old skool mechanic and he charges £75 per hour and I d be very surprised if he didn t correctly diagnose your head gasket within 30 minutes of him looking at it and I d also be surprised if he d actually charge for that initial 30 minutes.
I really hope you now have time to enjoy the car, I used to own a CS and absolutely loved it. One of the finest handling Porsche ever.
For a start I absolutely hate this type of selling where the likes of PH (and others) make a shedload of money for very little outlay. Yes traditional auctions are also a risk when buying but at least the cars are all sold under the same roof (hence overheads and so why the auction house charge a fee) and you could view them and bid in the flesh.
Secondly.
Quite simply (they may well be bloody fantastic)) but £144 an hour labour rate is a bit of a piss take imo.
I appreciate you were kind of in the dark when the car initially went there but in future unless it s a specific 968 issue, then just use a local spannering garage as it s mainly old skool mechanics to keep these cars on the road.
My 993 gets all its mechanical needs sorted by an old skool mechanic and he charges £75 per hour and I d be very surprised if he didn t correctly diagnose your head gasket within 30 minutes of him looking at it and I d also be surprised if he d actually charge for that initial 30 minutes.
I really hope you now have time to enjoy the car, I used to own a CS and absolutely loved it. One of the finest handling Porsche ever.
Thanks all, there's certainly an upside to all the misery and at least I know I bought the right car (/wrong car, but right model) because despite barely having driven the thing I'm missing it like crazy! It's also hopefully an investment (not that I ever want to sell it) which will give it a new lease of life and keep it on the road even longer which is a win in my books.
The labour rate is an extremely bitter pill to swallow though and will forever irk me. At the time the car overheated there felt little option but to leave it with the specialist literally around the corner but in hindsight recovering it home would've been best. Turns out it was the only specialist firm operating in the area (two others at the time were temporarily closed) so I guess they just get away with it. Apparently they pride themselves on offering cheaper rates than an actual Porsche centre so goodness only knows what they charge! Lesson learnt for the future, and even more motivation for me to learn simpler repairs/replacements myself.
Several people urged me strongly NOT to use a local garage and to be fair I wouldn't necessarily trust the ones I know of with a classic, but then again it's not a complex car or case and almost worth the risk at the rates they ask for. I feel like they'd have taken half the time too, but as mentioned it's better to move on, can't gain anything from looking back in anger.
The labour rate is an extremely bitter pill to swallow though and will forever irk me. At the time the car overheated there felt little option but to leave it with the specialist literally around the corner but in hindsight recovering it home would've been best. Turns out it was the only specialist firm operating in the area (two others at the time were temporarily closed) so I guess they just get away with it. Apparently they pride themselves on offering cheaper rates than an actual Porsche centre so goodness only knows what they charge! Lesson learnt for the future, and even more motivation for me to learn simpler repairs/replacements myself.
Several people urged me strongly NOT to use a local garage and to be fair I wouldn't necessarily trust the ones I know of with a classic, but then again it's not a complex car or case and almost worth the risk at the rates they ask for. I feel like they'd have taken half the time too, but as mentioned it's better to move on, can't gain anything from looking back in anger.
SFIELDS said:
Thanks all, there's certainly an upside to all the misery and at least I know I bought the right car (/wrong car, but right model) because despite barely having driven the thing I'm missing it like crazy! It's also hopefully an investment (not that I ever want to sell it) which will give it a new lease of life and keep it on the road even longer which is a win in my books.
The labour rate is an extremely bitter pill to swallow though and will forever irk me. At the time the car overheated there felt little option but to leave it with the specialist literally around the corner but in hindsight recovering it home would've been best. Turns out it was the only specialist firm operating in the area (two others at the time were temporarily closed) so I guess they just get away with it. Apparently they pride themselves on offering cheaper rates than an actual Porsche centre so goodness only knows what they charge! Lesson learnt for the future, and even more motivation for me to learn simpler repairs/replacements myself.
Several people urged me strongly NOT to use a local garage and to be fair I wouldn't necessarily trust the ones I know of with a classic, but then again it's not a complex car or case and almost worth the risk at the rates they ask for. I feel like they'd have taken half the time too, but as mentioned it's better to move on, can't gain anything from looking back in anger.
It's really been a difficult situation for you, and your attitude has been positive and level-headed, so respect to you for that.The labour rate is an extremely bitter pill to swallow though and will forever irk me. At the time the car overheated there felt little option but to leave it with the specialist literally around the corner but in hindsight recovering it home would've been best. Turns out it was the only specialist firm operating in the area (two others at the time were temporarily closed) so I guess they just get away with it. Apparently they pride themselves on offering cheaper rates than an actual Porsche centre so goodness only knows what they charge! Lesson learnt for the future, and even more motivation for me to learn simpler repairs/replacements myself.
Several people urged me strongly NOT to use a local garage and to be fair I wouldn't necessarily trust the ones I know of with a classic, but then again it's not a complex car or case and almost worth the risk at the rates they ask for. I feel like they'd have taken half the time too, but as mentioned it's better to move on, can't gain anything from looking back in anger.
I'd suggest using another specialist. Mine charges £116 per hour, which is hardly cheap, but seems more reasonable. OPCs, BTW, are sky high; the rate at my local one (Chester) is £248 per hour.
I think you'll now have a car that you know to be properly sorted, and your total outlay has not been disastrous. The car is unlikely to depreciate significantly (or at all), so the best bet would be to run it long-term and enjoy it.
I don't think you can hold Pistonheads accountable, but it might be worth contacting the seller and possibly bringing this thread to his attention. He might do the right thing and contribute.
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