Never received penalty notice
Discussion
Followed a Q7 into a box junction. I could see there was sufficient room for us both to clear the yellow grid. Q7 driver stopped approx 8ft short of the car in front of it. Despite my indicating as such, the driver refused to move forward, leaving my rear bumper and back tyres transgressing the last box junction yellow line for 20 secs. No obstruction caused to anyone else.
I know all of this as result of receiving a letter linking to video. I also recalled the incident. However, the letter states that I ignored the ‘initial letter’ which it claims was sent some two months earlier. That letter offered a discount on the penalty charge of £80.
The letter I’ve received demands £160 plus an £80 charge certificate.
I’ve contacted the local authority concerned and explained that I,
genuinely didn’t receive any communication prior. They confirm they never posted via a tracked or signed for service.
Following correspondence they state- ‘in the interest of reasonableness’ they will suspend the charge certificate if I pay the full ticket amount of £160.
This seems entirely unfair as I didn’t receive any previous correspondence.
Is it worth my contesting this point via hearing or is the system such that I will be doomed whatever?
I know all of this as result of receiving a letter linking to video. I also recalled the incident. However, the letter states that I ignored the ‘initial letter’ which it claims was sent some two months earlier. That letter offered a discount on the penalty charge of £80.
The letter I’ve received demands £160 plus an £80 charge certificate.
I’ve contacted the local authority concerned and explained that I,
genuinely didn’t receive any communication prior. They confirm they never posted via a tracked or signed for service.
Following correspondence they state- ‘in the interest of reasonableness’ they will suspend the charge certificate if I pay the full ticket amount of £160.
This seems entirely unfair as I didn’t receive any previous correspondence.
Is it worth my contesting this point via hearing or is the system such that I will be doomed whatever?
t these days. I often receive stuff 2 weeks after they were sent.Followed a Q7 into a box junction. I could see there was sufficient room for us both to clear the yellow grid. Q7 driver stopped approx 8ft short of the car in front of it. Despite my indicating as such, the driver refused to move forward, leaving my rear bumper and back tyres transgressing the last box junction yellow line for 20 secs. No obstruction caused to anyone else.
I know all of this as result of receiving a letter linking to video. I also recalled the incident. However, the letter states that I ignored the ‘initial letter’ which it claims was sent some two months earlier. That letter offered a discount on the penalty charge of £80.
The letter I’ve received demands £160 plus an £80 charge certificate.
I’ve contacted the local authority concerned and explained that I,
genuinely didn’t receive any communication prior. They confirm they never posted via a tracked or signed for service.
Following correspondence they state- ‘in the interest of reasonableness’ they will suspend the charge certificate if I pay the full ticket amount of £160.
This seems entirely unfair as I didn’t receive any previous correspondence.
Is it worth my contesting this point via hearing or is the system such that I will be doomed whatever?
I know all of this as result of receiving a letter linking to video. I also recalled the incident. However, the letter states that I ignored the ‘initial letter’ which it claims was sent some two months earlier. That letter offered a discount on the penalty charge of £80.
The letter I’ve received demands £160 plus an £80 charge certificate.
I’ve contacted the local authority concerned and explained that I,
genuinely didn’t receive any communication prior. They confirm they never posted via a tracked or signed for service.
Following correspondence they state- ‘in the interest of reasonableness’ they will suspend the charge certificate if I pay the full ticket amount of £160.
This seems entirely unfair as I didn’t receive any previous correspondence.
Is it worth my contesting this point via hearing or is the system such that I will be doomed whatever?
John Henry said:
Followed a Q7 into a box junction. I could see there was sufficient room for us both to clear the yellow grid. Q7 driver stopped approx 8ft short of the car in front of it. Despite my indicating as such, the driver refused to move forward, leaving my rear bumper and back tyres transgressing the last box junction yellow line for 20 secs. No obstruction caused to anyone else.
I know all of this as result of receiving a letter linking to video. I also recalled the incident. However, the letter states that I ignored the ‘initial letter’ which it claims was sent some two months earlier. That letter offered a discount on the penalty charge of £80.
The letter I’ve received demands £160 plus an £80 charge certificate.
I’ve contacted the local authority concerned and explained that I,
genuinely didn’t receive any communication prior. They confirm they never posted via a tracked or signed for service.
Following correspondence they state- ‘in the interest of reasonableness’ they will suspend the charge certificate if I pay the full ticket amount of £160.
This seems entirely unfair as I didn’t receive any previous correspondence.
Is it worth my contesting this point via hearing or is the system such that I will be doomed whatever?
You stopped in a yellow box junction. You were caught doing so on video. I know all of this as result of receiving a letter linking to video. I also recalled the incident. However, the letter states that I ignored the ‘initial letter’ which it claims was sent some two months earlier. That letter offered a discount on the penalty charge of £80.
The letter I’ve received demands £160 plus an £80 charge certificate.
I’ve contacted the local authority concerned and explained that I,
genuinely didn’t receive any communication prior. They confirm they never posted via a tracked or signed for service.
Following correspondence they state- ‘in the interest of reasonableness’ they will suspend the charge certificate if I pay the full ticket amount of £160.
This seems entirely unfair as I didn’t receive any previous correspondence.
Is it worth my contesting this point via hearing or is the system such that I will be doomed whatever?
I'm guessing this was in London and was on a Red Route. The fine is £160, reduced to £80 if paid early (within 14 days). If you fail to pay the £160, an additional penalty charge can be applied of £80.
You've explained you didn't get the letters, and so they're giving you the benefit of the doubt by removing the £80 additional penalty charge.
Pay the £160, be more cautious about yellow boxes, and move on with life.
.
When you entered the box you had judged there was space available to clear it.
This guy will be able to help you:
https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/
When you entered the box you had judged there was space available to clear it.
This guy will be able to help you:
https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/
Somebody else had exactly the same problem a couple of weeks ago..
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Cliftonite said:
.
When you entered the box you had judged there was space available to clear it.
This guy will be able to help you:
https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/
He's not arguing his innocence. He knows he was in the wrong. He's arguing about the £160 fine when he wasn't given the chance to pay the original £80 fine. When you entered the box you had judged there was space available to clear it.
This guy will be able to help you:
https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/
I’ll finish this story. So they wouldn’t hear any representations after I called them, explaining I’d never received their first notice and thus hadn’t had a chance to pay the reduced fine.
They eventually write again and you get the opportunity to make a ‘statutory declaration’. This consists of signing to say you never received initial notice of fine. You have to get your signature witnessed by a brief.
Once done, you post to the court. Effectively they accept your stat dec, and you get the opportunity to appeal, and have opportunity to pay the reduced rate if you want to.
Quite why they don’t send the initial fines out via signed for delivery remains unclear.
They eventually write again and you get the opportunity to make a ‘statutory declaration’. This consists of signing to say you never received initial notice of fine. You have to get your signature witnessed by a brief.
Once done, you post to the court. Effectively they accept your stat dec, and you get the opportunity to appeal, and have opportunity to pay the reduced rate if you want to.
Quite why they don’t send the initial fines out via signed for delivery remains unclear.
An offence is committed if you allow a vehicle to enter a box junction when your exit is blocked by a stationary vehicle AND you subsequently stop in the box junction.
If the vehicle in front of you was moving at the time you entered the box junction and you stop later no contravention has occurred. Similarly if you stop for any other reason, no contravention has occurred.
This is what I gather from the list of successful appeals to the adjudicator from the yell box website.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/sche...
If the vehicle in front of you was moving at the time you entered the box junction and you stop later no contravention has occurred. Similarly if you stop for any other reason, no contravention has occurred.
This is what I gather from the list of successful appeals to the adjudicator from the yell box website.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/sche...
John Henry said:
I ll finish this story. So they wouldn t hear any representations after I called them, explaining I d never received their first notice and thus hadn t had a chance to pay the reduced fine.
They eventually write again and you get the opportunity to make a statutory declaration . This consists of signing to say you never received initial notice of fine. You have to get your signature witnessed by a brief.
Once done, you post to the court. Effectively they accept your stat dec, and you get the opportunity to appeal, and have opportunity to pay the reduced rate if you want to.
Quite why they don t send the initial fines out via signed for delivery remains unclear.
Because people won’t sign for them and they face the risk of not being served.They eventually write again and you get the opportunity to make a statutory declaration . This consists of signing to say you never received initial notice of fine. You have to get your signature witnessed by a brief.
Once done, you post to the court. Effectively they accept your stat dec, and you get the opportunity to appeal, and have opportunity to pay the reduced rate if you want to.
Quite why they don t send the initial fines out via signed for delivery remains unclear.
If you are forced to stop in a box junction because the driver in front decides it would be good entertainment to block you in, despite there being plenty of room after the box to accommodate both vehicles then surely that's not an offence and should be spotted by the operators before a fine is generated ? Or are the councils now so cash strapped they have taken to hiring people to drive around all day trapping unsuspecting motorists in box junctions ?
NikBartlett said:
If you are forced to stop in a box junction because the driver in front decides it would be good entertainment to block you in, despite there being plenty of room after the box to accommodate both vehicles then surely that's not an offence and should be spotted by the operators before a fine is generated ? Or are the councils now so cash strapped they have taken to hiring people to drive around all day trapping unsuspecting motorists in box junctions ?
Eh? Don't enter the junction until it's clear. Not, don't enter the junction assuming the driver in front won't stop unexpectedly. NikBartlett said:
If you are forced to stop in a box junction because the driver in front decides it would be good entertainment to block you in, despite there being plenty of room after the box to accommodate both vehicles then surely that's not an offence and should be spotted by the operators before a fine is generated ? Or are the councils now so cash strapped they have taken to hiring people to drive around all day trapping unsuspecting motorists in box junctions ?
That was the grounds of my appeal. When I eventually was allowed to make it. Dismissed. By this time I was sick of it all and elected to pay the £80. The person driving in front of me had about 3m between them and the rear of the car in front. They wouldn’t move forward leaving my rear bumper and part of rear tyre over last yellow line. I thought it egregious to fine in those circumstances where they had the video and could clearly see it wasn’t a thoughtless or flagrant breach. John Henry said:
NikBartlett said:
If you are forced to stop in a box junction because the driver in front decides it would be good entertainment to block you in, despite there being plenty of room after the box to accommodate both vehicles then surely that's not an offence and should be spotted by the operators before a fine is generated ? Or are the councils now so cash strapped they have taken to hiring people to drive around all day trapping unsuspecting motorists in box junctions ?
That was the grounds of my appeal. When I eventually was allowed to make it. Dismissed. By this time I was sick of it all and elected to pay the £80. The person driving in front of me had about 3m between them and the rear of the car in front. They wouldn t move forward leaving my rear bumper and part of rear tyre over last yellow line. I thought it egregious to fine in those circumstances where they had the video and could clearly see it wasn t a thoughtless or flagrant breach. As they were 8 feet from the car in front (I see this has increased to 10 feet in your later post), as you had gone hard up against their rear and were still overhanging the box with your rear wheels, then that means you would only have been OK had you both pulled up within 3 feet of the car in front. Physically, that fits, but that is car parking distance, not traffic jam distance.
So annoying, it's a mistake we could all make, but unfortunately you were in the wrong.
Edited by donkmeister on Monday 24th November 12:06
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