Land Registry records - joint tenants
Discussion
I am just trying to determine if I have a problem. It is a situation were obviously paid for advice should be taken, but I am not 100% sure that the solictors/conveyancers are necessarily correct here.
They are extremely reluctant to speak to me about things, usually with weeks delay or disappearing off on holiday.
When they thought it was a simple transfer of ownership they were back the same day with a quote for the work.
Short version is;
I own a property, which should be held as joint tenants with my mother. It was bought about 15 years ago, both of us putting cash in. The outline reason for the joint ownership was for asset protection - that situation now no longer exists.
My mother, now in her 80's got worred about inheritance liabilities and wanted to transfer the property to being owned by myself only.
On checking my file provided by the conveyancers, I found that the deed confirming the joint tenants ownership request is missing. (It is a bound copy - the pages haven't fallen out - yes I should have verified everything at the time, but I trusted the docs listed in the contents page were actually in the pack)
On contacting the conveyancers, though they (in writing) stated they would retain a copy of my file for more than 15 years - they have destroyed it before that time.
A while back (a few years) I asked them about transferring to me, and they refused on the grounds of being too busy.
They claim the title register held at the Land Registry is proof it is held as joint tenants since there are two names on it. As I understand it, from the LR site, they don't actually guarantee that they hold that ownership information.
It appears the absense of a form A, implies (but does not prove) Joint Tenants.
It appears the TR1 whould have stated my intention, but the LR don't keep it - and the conveyancer has destroyed it.
A further complication is that the conveyancer entered questionable data on the register. They entered my name and mother's name at my address.
This therefore looks on paper like my mother lives with me. She has her own house which she is the sole owner of.
I have a feeling, maybe unfounded, that the fact that my mother is listed at this address at the LR might cause tax issues.
Should I accept that the LR Title stating the ownership is two names at the same address won't bite me in the future?
As I understand it, I can't 'correct' this by transferring the property to myself only - that potentially opens me up to tax on a gift that was in fact made 15 years ago, but will apparently be taken as the date the property is actually transfered.
Maybe I should be asking another solicitor to look at this as effectively the conveyancer is marking their own homework.
They are extremely reluctant to speak to me about things, usually with weeks delay or disappearing off on holiday.
When they thought it was a simple transfer of ownership they were back the same day with a quote for the work.
Short version is;
I own a property, which should be held as joint tenants with my mother. It was bought about 15 years ago, both of us putting cash in. The outline reason for the joint ownership was for asset protection - that situation now no longer exists.
My mother, now in her 80's got worred about inheritance liabilities and wanted to transfer the property to being owned by myself only.
On checking my file provided by the conveyancers, I found that the deed confirming the joint tenants ownership request is missing. (It is a bound copy - the pages haven't fallen out - yes I should have verified everything at the time, but I trusted the docs listed in the contents page were actually in the pack)
On contacting the conveyancers, though they (in writing) stated they would retain a copy of my file for more than 15 years - they have destroyed it before that time.
A while back (a few years) I asked them about transferring to me, and they refused on the grounds of being too busy.
They claim the title register held at the Land Registry is proof it is held as joint tenants since there are two names on it. As I understand it, from the LR site, they don't actually guarantee that they hold that ownership information.
It appears the absense of a form A, implies (but does not prove) Joint Tenants.
It appears the TR1 whould have stated my intention, but the LR don't keep it - and the conveyancer has destroyed it.
A further complication is that the conveyancer entered questionable data on the register. They entered my name and mother's name at my address.
This therefore looks on paper like my mother lives with me. She has her own house which she is the sole owner of.
I have a feeling, maybe unfounded, that the fact that my mother is listed at this address at the LR might cause tax issues.
Should I accept that the LR Title stating the ownership is two names at the same address won't bite me in the future?
As I understand it, I can't 'correct' this by transferring the property to myself only - that potentially opens me up to tax on a gift that was in fact made 15 years ago, but will apparently be taken as the date the property is actually transfered.
Maybe I should be asking another solicitor to look at this as effectively the conveyancer is marking their own homework.
Can you recall setting up a deed of trust? It would make sense one was set up as part of the ownership you intended. If so potentially there is a restriction on the property being sold which would be registered with the LR.
Although I have some experience in this I’m not a solicitor and getting correct legal advice would be the best route to take.
Although I have some experience in this I’m not a solicitor and getting correct legal advice would be the best route to take.
Hans_Gruber said:
Can you recall setting up a deed of trust? It would make sense one was set up as part of the ownership you intended. If so potentially there is a restriction on the property being sold which would be registered with the LR.
Although I have some experience in this I’m not a solicitor and getting correct legal advice would be the best route to take.
Thanks for the reply,Although I have some experience in this I’m not a solicitor and getting correct legal advice would be the best route to take.
I, along with my mother, remember signing a document, but I can't remember the content (I know what our intent was).
The pack of info I have from the conveyancer has a contents page that lists "Joint Tenancy Instruction Sheet"
But, they never supplied me with a copy (i.e. its listed but missing),
and of course they have destroyed my file - before the written terms to "retain a copy for at least 15 years" had expired.
I assume they filed it - but have no real way of knowing, maybe it is missing from the pack because they didn't do it.
LR site says available documents are;
Title Register
Title plan
(Both of which I have)
Not sure if I have a problem or not, but I sure what to get it clarified.
Edited by No ideas for a name on Tuesday 19th August 18:04
https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership says you can change between joint tenants and tenants in common for free. So why not go through the motions of changing to what you want. If it turns out that's already the case, no harm done.
WrekinCrew said:
https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership says you can change between joint tenants and tenants in common for free. So why not go through the motions of changing to what you want. If it turns out that's already the case, no harm done.
Thanks for the info,I would, but it isn't 100% clear to me. The solicitors quoted me over a grand for doing it which immediately made me suspicious.
I think (but am not sure) that a transfer in to a single name would count as a gift or purchase at today's date. If the worst were to happen any time in the next 7 years, I could be hit for an inheritance liability. I am not trying to 'cheat' that - the deal was done 14 years ago.
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