Battery Powered train
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Discussion

Saleen836

Original Poster:

11,961 posts

225 months

Wednesday 20th August
quotequote all
As title, just set a new record for travelling 200miles on battery power...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2l7ry7zp5po

The story is light on details like the constant speed or if there were any carriages being pulled etc or even how big the batteries are or will be needed to pull a few carriages

towser44

3,883 posts

131 months

Wednesday 20th August
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There's one been running in service on Merseyrail in the North West for quite some time.

Not sure it's been massively reliable though lol

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-6...

thebraketester

15,117 posts

154 months

Wednesday 20th August
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train clown said:
Today's record attempt has been a bit of fun
How about have a bit of fun and sort out the delayed and over crowded regular train service?

ralphrj

3,842 posts

207 months

Wednesday 20th August
quotequote all
Saleen836 said:
As title, just set a new record for travelling 200miles on battery power...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2l7ry7zp5po

The story is light on details like the constant speed or if there were any carriages being pulled etc or even how big the batteries are or will be needed to pull a few carriages
The train was 230001, a Class 230 which is a converted former London Underground D78 stock unit. Assuming it wasn't modified for the record run, 230001 is a 3 carriage unit with a top speed of 60 mph. GWR is planning to use this train on the Greenford branch line which is too short and lightly used to justify the expense of electrification. These trains can recharge when the train is stopped at the station but the battery capacity is adequate for it to do multiple trips a day without needing a recharge.

Simpo Two

89,407 posts

281 months

Wednesday 20th August
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ralphrj said:
GWR is planning to use this train on the Greenford branch line which is too short and lightly used to justify the expense of electrification.
I wonder how much the train cost. Is it really the best answer or some PR virtue signalling?

Cristio Nasser

319 posts

9 months

Wednesday 20th August
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Battery trains are the obvious next step for line electrification as you only need to electrify the easy bits. The batteries will carry it through the non-electrified/hard to electrify sections, such as tunnels, bridges, conservation areas, etc.

ralphrj

3,842 posts

207 months

Thursday 21st August
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
ralphrj said:
GWR is planning to use this train on the Greenford branch line which is too short and lightly used to justify the expense of electrification.
I wonder how much the train cost. Is it really the best answer or some PR virtue signalling?
The train is leased to the operator and the lease cost is less than half that of a new diesel train. A new electric train might be cheaper than a new diesel train (but unlikely to be cheaper than this) plus there is the cost of electrifying the line on top.

miniman

28,433 posts

278 months

Thursday 21st August
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spitfire-ian

3,995 posts

244 months

Thursday 21st August
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We had a battery train running past here for a bit. I thought about 5 years ago but it was actually 10!

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/batt...

rodericb

8,082 posts

142 months

Thursday 21st August
quotequote all
ralphrj said:
Simpo Two said:
ralphrj said:
GWR is planning to use this train on the Greenford branch line which is too short and lightly used to justify the expense of electrification.
I wonder how much the train cost. Is it really the best answer or some PR virtue signalling?
The train is leased to the operator and the lease cost is less than half that of a new diesel train. A new electric train might be cheaper than a new diesel train (but unlikely to be cheaper than this) plus there is the cost of electrifying the line on top.
And so it should be cheaper as it's old overhauled stuff - not a new diesel train. How much does it cost to convert these to battery versus diesel electric?

ralphrj

3,842 posts

207 months

Thursday 21st August
quotequote all
rodericb said:
ralphrj said:
Simpo Two said:
ralphrj said:
GWR is planning to use this train on the Greenford branch line which is too short and lightly used to justify the expense of electrification.
I wonder how much the train cost. Is it really the best answer or some PR virtue signalling?
The train is leased to the operator and the lease cost is less than half that of a new diesel train. A new electric train might be cheaper than a new diesel train (but unlikely to be cheaper than this) plus there is the cost of electrifying the line on top.
And so it should be cheaper as it's old overhauled stuff - not a new diesel train. How much does it cost to convert these to battery versus diesel electric?
That is the train leasing companies problem rather than the operators. However, if it was horrifically expensive you would expect it to be reflected in the lease costs unless the leasing company is losing money for the fun of it.

Chrisgr31

14,081 posts

271 months

Thursday 21st August
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rodericb said:
And so it should be cheaper as it's old overhauled stuff - not a new diesel train. How much does it cost to convert these to battery versus diesel electric?
It’s complicated as the trains were initially bought from TFL by Vivarail however they went bust and were bought by GWR. Not sure who owns GWR but I suspect the work has been funded by Dept of Transport and it’s mainly a test bed fir future options.

plastic orange

167 posts

217 months

Friday 22nd August
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There was a battery train on the Deeside Line (Aberdeen to Ballater) from 1958 till closure in 1966. The train is still there on the preserved part of the line.

alangla

5,721 posts

197 months

rodericb said:
And so it should be cheaper as it's old overhauled stuff - not a new diesel train. How much does it cost to convert these to battery versus diesel electric?
The diesel versions haven’t exactly been successful. West Midlands trains gave up on theirs, though Transport for Wales seem to have managed to get theirs working https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class...

Wonder what the likely limit is for a “real” train, ie something built for the main line and capable of 100mph. Given the plans in Scotland for discontinuous electrification, greater range and faster charging should mean fewer miles of overhead wiring.

Edited by alangla on Monday 25th August 22:54

ashenfie

1,599 posts

62 months

Over head power cables seam to work?

rodericb

8,082 posts

142 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
ashenfie said:
Over head power cables seam to work?
Cost v benefits.

alangla

5,721 posts

197 months

Tuesday
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ashenfie said:
Over head power cables seam to work?
But installing them often involves raising/replacing bridges, lowering track in tunnels and adding new parapets to bridges that have enough clearance. They also need big substations connected to 132kV or higher National Grid lines, all of that is very expensive and becoming more so. A decent battery range means, for example, a train that runs from Manchester Airport to Barrow or Windermere, which is currently a diesel unit but under the wires as far as Carnforth/Oxenholme could instantly be replaced by something electric. Same with, for example, Liverpool to Norwich: battery from the edge of Liverpool to near Manchester, charge up going through to Stockport, battery to Sheffield, maybe some new wires on the section to Nottingham, battery to Grantham, charge up going to Peterborough, battery to Ely, charge, then battery to Norwich. Hundreds of miles of electric running but hardly any new wiring.

valiant

12,482 posts

176 months

Tuesday
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ashenfie said:
Over head power cables seam to work?
At huge cost and many years of disruption to install.

This is pennies in comparison.