Torn between S2 or going all out for an S3...

[rawenghey]

Hi everyone.

I'm looking to pick up an Exige for mostly track stuff. I'm not bothered about road driving, as I don't live anywhere near the good ones and I've got another car I can do that in.

I want something I can really lean on at the track that's going to be lighter in mass, lighter on running costs and just allow me to focus on the driving more. I did it in a stock Cayman for a while, but it was roasting its brakes and tyres.

I'd love an S3, but the increased insurance cost, consumables and performance is maybe not where I want to go? Also it seems I'll have to mess about with baffles for track use.

There don't appear to be a huge number of S2s around, whereas there's loads of S3s, particularly at the top end of my budget, which is turning my head a bit. But then a £50k S3 will turn into a £70k S3 as that's always how it goes

Is the sensible choice holding out for a decent £25-£30k S2...? Have any of you had the same dilemma, if so which way did you go? After that it's just down to personal preference?

Edited by rawenghey on Sunday 24th August 10:01

[Jonstar]

Just get a caterham or s2. S3 is more expensive to run, heavier and faster but not necessarily more fun. Probably the better road car but can't see why it would be better on track than an s2.

[ecain63]

Have you looked at the Elise 250 Cup if consumables are a factor?

I've run an Exige 410 on track for 6 years now and absolutely love it....... but I've often wished I'd bought the Elise 250 so I could do more of the smaller circuit stuff. The Exige is better suited to big power circuits like Silverstone and Spa, which is fine.... but when you get up to pace you do start to eat tyres and brakes.

[rawenghey]

Jonstar said:

Just get a caterham or s2. S3 is more expensive to run, heavier and faster but not necessarily more fun. Probably the better road car but can't see why it would be better on track than an s2.

I know what you mean, but I just can't do the Caterhams. Ditto MX-5s or FWD hot hatches.

ecain63 said:

Have you looked at the Elise 250 Cup if consumables are a factor?

I've run an Exige 410 on track for 6 years now and absolutely love it....... but I've often wished I'd bought the Elise 250 so I could do more of the smaller circuit stuff. The Exige is better suited to big power circuits like Silverstone and Spa, which is fine.... but when you get up to pace you do start to eat tyres and brakes.

Kind of where I'm at really. I steered away from the GT4 route for the same reason - hugely capable, but I want something I can focus on the driving a bit more. Great shout on the 250 Cup Elise, I wasn't aware of these.

From Lotus in general then, there seem to be so many subtly different versions, will any S2 Exige or Elise be up to the job of say 10 TDs a year around places like Brands?

[ecain63]

rawenghey said:

Jonstar said:

Just get a caterham or s2. S3 is more expensive to run, heavier and faster but not necessarily more fun. Probably the better road car but can't see why it would be better on track than an s2.

I know what you mean, but I just can't do the Caterhams. Ditto MX-5s or FWD hot hatches.

ecain63 said:

Have you looked at the Elise 250 Cup if consumables are a factor?

I've run an Exige 410 on track for 6 years now and absolutely love it....... but I've often wished I'd bought the Elise 250 so I could do more of the smaller circuit stuff. The Exige is better suited to big power circuits like Silverstone and Spa, which is fine.... but when you get up to pace you do start to eat tyres and brakes.

Kind of where I'm at really. I steered away from the GT4 route for the same reason - hugely capable, but I want something I can focus on the driving a bit more. Great shout on the 250 Cup Elise, I wasn't aware of these.

From Lotus in general then, there seem to be so many subtly different versions, will any S2 Exige or Elise be up to the job of say 10 TDs a year around places like Brands?

The newer 250 Cup has a much better gear shift and setup than previous models. Obviously, the Elise is a car that many people upgrade, but out of the box a new 250 Cup with the open shifter and aero kit is the one to have. They often come with Nitrons and carbon seats too, like the Exige 410/430. Brands Hatch is definitely a track that will be better suited to the Elise vs the Exige. I've done Brands and found it incredibly hard work in the big V6. I think the Elise would just flow better.

As well as this, it's the Elise that they used to use at the Driving Academy. It wasn't the 250 that they used, but the also very capable 220 Sport. You can't beat the agility of the Elise in my opinion.

[rawenghey]

That's all great info, thanks a lot. Interesting about the V6 around Brands, I suspect the speed difference Vs everything else around such a tight circuit would be annoying. I'm no driving hero but even in a stock 981 GTS I'd almost never get a clean lap, as you're always up the arse of something else.

The 220 Cups look like a riot too. My other option at around £30k would be something like this:

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/19026627

Under the skin I'd assume they're fairly similar? I'm not really bothered about the Elise's targa style roof.

[fridaypassion]

If you're into heavy track use I would suggest a V6. The S2 cars you have to consider are getting old now and they never had the most robust drive trains. Also in a world where even modest hatchbacks have 300 plus bhp they aren't that quick. S3 Elises have very weak gearboxes so you need to be mindful of gearbox temps.

The V6 is a much more robust platform for track use. I'm picking one at random here (cough) but this is prefect

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/18930944

The 410 is the sweet spot as its got the charge cooler and gearbox cooling plus adjustable Nitrons and baffled sump so you don't need anything else.

For road use the V6 doesn't hold a candle to an S2 dynamically but certainly for something more than just very casual trackdays I would go with a V6 if it's road use with 2 chilled trackdays the S2 exige or 250 cup

[rawenghey]

Morning Jon lol. I am keeping an eye on your stock. It's a fair point that the V6s are much more suited to extended track use, but they are a significant cost jump in every area, which moves it into a different area of my mind, and paradoxically aren't track ready out of the box because they're too loud. It's not a hard no on the V6 though...

Power wise I don't mind too much - 220-250bhp at 900kg is going to be nippy enough. I've also got a Giulia Quadrifoglio, so I get my "shot out a canon" fix from that

I am out of my depth on the S3 Elise gearboxes though, which I assume applies to 220 Sports and 250 Cups?

[fridaypassion]

Yeah the 2ZZ boxes are a bit flaky the S3 Elise boxes are the least robust they just don't tolerate heat so if you stick to 15 minute sessions and allow it time to cool it should be ok.

[rawenghey]

Ah I see. I've done more reading, and the gearbox does seem to be at its limit at around 250bhp, which is a shame.

Is anyone doing any kind of mods or preventative stuff to help the gearbox's longetivty? I've seen a lot of them at track days...

Shame, as the Elise Sport 220 or the S2 Exige is right about what I want - price, size, power. The V6 is a brute and at that money, you'd also have to consider 996 GT3, 981/718 GT4s, etc.

Edited by rawenghey on Monday 25th August 18:20

[rawenghey]

Is the CR (Club Racer) Elise any more durable gearbox-wise for track work? Bell and Colvill have an orange one in...

[Frimley111R]

Caterham? - Nice but if you have to drive a long way to tracks it'll be awful, especially at the end of a long day.

I'd go with the S2. It is light, quick enough and will be very low cost to track as it is so light (but it's also decent enough to drive long journey's to the tracks). 250bhp is fine as it doesn't weight 1500kg.

The S3/V6 etc have a big heavy engine in the back and that puts pressure on tyres and brakes and your wallet.