Is the "cheap" new car a thing of the past?
Discussion
Have you seen the price of new cars lately? Having not bought a new car for about 15 years, I'll admit to being a bit ignorant about how much new cars cost. I knew that the modern (performance) cars that I read about/am most interested in had got expensive in the last 5+ years but I assumed that your average "white goods" cars were still relatively affordable but it seems that I was wrong! We just moved and my wife got a new job with a 26 mile (each way) commute, so I thought that a fairly basic, small petrol hatchback (208/Cora/Polo etc) might be a good option for her. Economical, reliable, cheap to run, safe and factory warranty. All we really need/want is AC, a radio and central locking, so I was thinking maybe 10-12k for something fairly basic and around 15k for a mid-range small hatchback with a few extra toys sounded about right. I believe that the mid-spec VW Polo TDI that I bought in 2008 was around 12k and my wife's fairly basic Fiat 500 that we bought in 2009 around 10k (or 100-150 pounds per month). Just for the record, looking at the cheapest offerings from 16 mainstream ie non-"premium" manufacturers, here are the cheapest models ranked in ascending order and in brackets the entry-level price of the previous generation model when launched.
1) Dacia Sandero 14,715 (5,995 - 2013)
2) Kia Picanto 16,695 (7,995 - 2011)
3) Toyota Aygo X 16,845 (8,595 - 2014)
4) Hyundai i10 17,100 (6,495 - 2008)
5) MG3 17, 245 (8,399 - 2013)
6) Fiat Grande Panda 18, 035 (8,900 - 2012)
7) Citroen C3 18, 805 (13,750 - 2017)
8) Vauxhall Corsa 18, 910 (8,995 - 2014)
9) Renault Clio 18, 995 (12,675 - 2013)
10) Suzuki Swift 19, 699 (10,999 - 2017)
11) Peugeot 208 20, 245 (11,695 - 2012)
12) SEAT Ibiza 20, 395 (11,395 - 2008)
13) Skoda Fabia 20, 630 (10,600 - 2015)
14) Volkswagen Polo 21, 470 (10,770 - 2009)
15) MINI Cooper 25, 265 (15,300 - 2014)
16) Ford Puma 26, 580 (12,715 - 2017 (Fiesta))
So I accept the inflation argument and that the new model usually gets a bit more kit, power and space but it's usually only an evolutionary jump and yet the entry-level price of many of these cars has doubled in 10 years or less (almost tripled in the case of the Hyundai i10). Why is this and why is no-one selling a basic 10-15k car any more? Citroen and Skoda used to do it, Hyundai/Kia did it and built their reputaion on it and Dacia more recently but although Dacia technically have the cheapest new car on sale and commendably the cheapest EV (Spring) for about the same money, I would hardly call 15k cheap. I acknowledge that a lot of manufacturers have cancelled their smallest "city"-size cars ie the VW Up!/SEAT Mii/Skoda Citigo and Peugeot 107/108/Citroen C1 etc but the cars from that segment that remain (Hyundai i10/Kia Picanto) are almost as much as the larger ones. Digging back, the VW Up! launched with an entry-level price of 7,995 in 2012 and yet when it went off sale in 2023 that entry-level price had risen over 50% to 12,705 (for basically the same car).
The Suzuki Swift is an interesting example, as up until the current generation (2024), the price hikes for the entry-level car from generation to generation were relatively modest ie 8,995 in 2005, 9,995 in 2010, 10,999 in 2017, so the almost 100% jump to 19,699 in 2024 is difficult to grasp. Likewise, why one would pay 25k for an entry-level Ford is beyond me. They only make one desirable car and are not a "premium" brand, so I'm not sure why they've thrown away a pedigree of sweet-driving, good value family cars like the Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo.
As a former car salesman, I can say that nothing sells better than a cheap, new car whatever the brand even if the offering is a bit sub-par whether it be a Mercedes A-Class, a Volkswagen Fox or even a City Rover, so why is no-one making one?
Ultimately, I bought her a 3k, 13 year old Mercedes A-Class diesel, which she is very happy with. Nothing wrong with it and I know that the new car comparison is a bit irrelevant. I earn a decent salary but it's hard to justify 20k/300 per month for a car that I really want let alone a basic hatchback, so I guess that I'm not going to be buying a brand new car in the forseeable future. A bit like those 400k "starter homes", I'm wondering who can actually afford to buy them!
So, do you think that we will ever return to the halcyon days of the 2000s/2010s when you can buy a basic but decent new car for sub 10k?
1) Dacia Sandero 14,715 (5,995 - 2013)
2) Kia Picanto 16,695 (7,995 - 2011)
3) Toyota Aygo X 16,845 (8,595 - 2014)
4) Hyundai i10 17,100 (6,495 - 2008)
5) MG3 17, 245 (8,399 - 2013)
6) Fiat Grande Panda 18, 035 (8,900 - 2012)
7) Citroen C3 18, 805 (13,750 - 2017)
8) Vauxhall Corsa 18, 910 (8,995 - 2014)
9) Renault Clio 18, 995 (12,675 - 2013)
10) Suzuki Swift 19, 699 (10,999 - 2017)
11) Peugeot 208 20, 245 (11,695 - 2012)
12) SEAT Ibiza 20, 395 (11,395 - 2008)
13) Skoda Fabia 20, 630 (10,600 - 2015)
14) Volkswagen Polo 21, 470 (10,770 - 2009)
15) MINI Cooper 25, 265 (15,300 - 2014)
16) Ford Puma 26, 580 (12,715 - 2017 (Fiesta))
So I accept the inflation argument and that the new model usually gets a bit more kit, power and space but it's usually only an evolutionary jump and yet the entry-level price of many of these cars has doubled in 10 years or less (almost tripled in the case of the Hyundai i10). Why is this and why is no-one selling a basic 10-15k car any more? Citroen and Skoda used to do it, Hyundai/Kia did it and built their reputaion on it and Dacia more recently but although Dacia technically have the cheapest new car on sale and commendably the cheapest EV (Spring) for about the same money, I would hardly call 15k cheap. I acknowledge that a lot of manufacturers have cancelled their smallest "city"-size cars ie the VW Up!/SEAT Mii/Skoda Citigo and Peugeot 107/108/Citroen C1 etc but the cars from that segment that remain (Hyundai i10/Kia Picanto) are almost as much as the larger ones. Digging back, the VW Up! launched with an entry-level price of 7,995 in 2012 and yet when it went off sale in 2023 that entry-level price had risen over 50% to 12,705 (for basically the same car).
The Suzuki Swift is an interesting example, as up until the current generation (2024), the price hikes for the entry-level car from generation to generation were relatively modest ie 8,995 in 2005, 9,995 in 2010, 10,999 in 2017, so the almost 100% jump to 19,699 in 2024 is difficult to grasp. Likewise, why one would pay 25k for an entry-level Ford is beyond me. They only make one desirable car and are not a "premium" brand, so I'm not sure why they've thrown away a pedigree of sweet-driving, good value family cars like the Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo.
As a former car salesman, I can say that nothing sells better than a cheap, new car whatever the brand even if the offering is a bit sub-par whether it be a Mercedes A-Class, a Volkswagen Fox or even a City Rover, so why is no-one making one?
Ultimately, I bought her a 3k, 13 year old Mercedes A-Class diesel, which she is very happy with. Nothing wrong with it and I know that the new car comparison is a bit irrelevant. I earn a decent salary but it's hard to justify 20k/300 per month for a car that I really want let alone a basic hatchback, so I guess that I'm not going to be buying a brand new car in the forseeable future. A bit like those 400k "starter homes", I'm wondering who can actually afford to buy them!
So, do you think that we will ever return to the halcyon days of the 2000s/2010s when you can buy a basic but decent new car for sub 10k?
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 28th August 05:47
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 28th August 05:49
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 28th August 05:50
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 28th August 05:51
Everything is expensive now.
Your VW up example 2012-2023 the BoE compound inflation over that period is 36%, and automotive inflation is higher than that due to steel which over the same period was 64% if you take a ~2022 average, and 159% if you take the peak in 2022.
The Covid and Ukraine war supply chain impact is well known.
East Asia to Europe shipping costs quadrupled in 2023 alone.
I also suspect R&D budgets for developing EVs would have been much higher than a decade earlier.
Your VW up example 2012-2023 the BoE compound inflation over that period is 36%, and automotive inflation is higher than that due to steel which over the same period was 64% if you take a ~2022 average, and 159% if you take the peak in 2022.
The Covid and Ukraine war supply chain impact is well known.
East Asia to Europe shipping costs quadrupled in 2023 alone.
I also suspect R&D budgets for developing EVs would have been much higher than a decade earlier.
Minimum wage £5.73 in 2008. Minimum wage today £12.21. Looks about the same percentage increase to me.
Like for like. Your polo should be 24k+ if you want to pay the same price as in 2008
Also cars have got bigger / more complex. You're actually getting better value.
Like for like. Your polo should be 24k+ if you want to pay the same price as in 2008
Also cars have got bigger / more complex. You're actually getting better value.
Edited by smallpaul on Thursday 28th August 07:33
smallpaul said:
Minimum wage £5.73 in 2008. Minimum wage today £12.21. Looks about the same percentage increase to me.
Like for like. Your polo should be 24k+ if you want to pay the same price as in 2008
Also cars have got bigger / more complex. You're actually getting better value.
The thing is, it doesn’t feel that way. Also many potential buyers don’t want all those features, many of which are ‘nanny state’ in a basic runaround car. Also tax bands rose greatly in 2017.
Like for like. Your polo should be 24k+ if you want to pay the same price as in 2008
Also cars have got bigger / more complex. You're actually getting better value.
The thing is, it doesn’t feel that way. Also many potential buyers don’t want all those features, many of which are ‘nanny state’ in a basic runaround car. Also tax bands rose greatly in 2017.
Edited by smallpaul on Thursday 28th August 07:33
HughG said:
Everything is expensive now.
Your VW up example 2012-2023 the BoE compound inflation over that period is 36%, and automotive inflation is higher than that due to steel which over the same period was 64% if you take a ~2022 average, and 159% if you take the peak in 2022.
The Covid and Ukraine war supply chain impact is well known.
East Asia to Europe shipping costs quadrupled in 2023 alone.
I also suspect R&D budgets for developing EVs would have been much higher than a decade earlier.
Yes, Covid hit us (unprecedented, dear boy) followed by a genuine electronic chip scarcity.Porsche even ceased production. But after these passed, car makers had got a taste for higher prices.Your VW up example 2012-2023 the BoE compound inflation over that period is 36%, and automotive inflation is higher than that due to steel which over the same period was 64% if you take a ~2022 average, and 159% if you take the peak in 2022.
The Covid and Ukraine war supply chain impact is well known.
East Asia to Europe shipping costs quadrupled in 2023 alone.
I also suspect R&D budgets for developing EVs would have been much higher than a decade earlier.
Edited by Lester H on Thursday 28th August 10:30
Lester H said:
The thing is, it doesn’t feel that way. Also many potential buyers don’t want all those features, many of which are ‘nanny state’ in a basic runaround car. Also tax bands rose greatly in 2017.
Better crash protection. More sound deadening, more space, better quality, better rust proofingA wheel bearing used to be "regular" maintenance on a 80k+ mile car.
For comparison, it's worth also looking what new cars cost in 1991, which is the same period of time (17 years) before 2008 as 2025 is after.
In 1991, a new Fiesta was about £6-8k, so the about doubling in price is actually fairly consistant.
Going back a similar amount of time to when the Fiesta was launched in 1976, it cost about £2k....
In 1991, a new Fiesta was about £6-8k, so the about doubling in price is actually fairly consistant.
Going back a similar amount of time to when the Fiesta was launched in 1976, it cost about £2k....
I purchased a brand new Renault Clio 1.2 16V in 2002 and it cost me £8,800. According to the Bank of England inflation calculator that is £16,411.64 today.
A brand new Clio today is £18,995 (although I instantly found one on CarWow for £16,147). The 2002 Clio didn't even have air conditioning, the 2025 pretty much has everything you need.
So in real money terms the car costs the same. But psychologically it is a shock when you see how much new cars cost today.
A brand new Clio today is £18,995 (although I instantly found one on CarWow for £16,147). The 2002 Clio didn't even have air conditioning, the 2025 pretty much has everything you need.
So in real money terms the car costs the same. But psychologically it is a shock when you see how much new cars cost today.
The cheapest EVs do seem to be heading down in price. A Dacia Spring (with 65bhp!) can be had for £12.5k. The Leapmotor t03 for £14k. Yes I know they have short range and look pretty awful but are they worse than a 20 year old Kia Picanto?
Talking of the Picanto which seems to be about the cheapest new ICE car, with discount they are just over £14k. As others have pointed out, with inflation, that's probably better value than it was when launched in 2004. And it'll be a much better car.
Talking of the Picanto which seems to be about the cheapest new ICE car, with discount they are just over £14k. As others have pointed out, with inflation, that's probably better value than it was when launched in 2004. And it'll be a much better car.
white_goodman said:
Have you seen the price of new cars lately? Having not bought a new car for about 15 years, I'll admit to being a bit ignorant about how much new cars cost. I knew that the modern (performance) cars that I read about/am most interested in had got expensive in the last 5+ years but I assumed that your average "white goods" cars were still relatively affordable but it seems that I was wrong! We just moved and my wife got a new job with a 26 mile (each way) commute, so I thought that a fairly basic, small petrol hatchback (208/Cora/Polo etc) might be a good option for her. Economical, reliable, cheap to run, safe and factory warranty. All we really need/want is AC, a radio and central locking, so I was thinking maybe 10-12k for something fairly basic and around 15k for a mid-range small hatchback with a few extra toys sounded about right. I believe that the mid-spec VW Polo TDI that I bought in 2008 was around 12k and my wife's fairly basic Fiat 500 that we bought in 2009 around 10k (or 100-150 pounds per month). Just for the record, looking at the cheapest offerings from 16 mainstream ie non-"premium" manufacturers, here are the cheapest models ranked in ascending order and in brackets the entry-level price of the previous generation model when launched.
1) Dacia Sandero 14,715 (5,995 - 2013)
2) Kia Picanto 16,695 (7,995 - 2011)
3) Toyota Aygo X 16,845 (8,595 - 2014)
4) Hyundai i10 17,100 (6,495 - 2008)
5) MG3 17, 245 (8,399 - 2013)
6) Fiat Grande Panda 18, 035 (8,900 - 2012)
7) Citroen C3 18, 805 (13,750 - 2017)
8) Vauxhall Corsa 18, 910 (8,995 - 2014)
9) Renault Clio 18, 995 (12,675 - 2013)
10) Suzuki Swift 19, 699 (10,999 - 2017)
11) Peugeot 208 20, 245 (11,695 - 2012)
12) SEAT Ibiza 20, 395 (11,395 - 2008)
13) Skoda Fabia 20, 630 (10,600 - 2015)
14) Volkswagen Polo 21, 470 (10,770 - 2009)
15) MINI Cooper 25, 265 (15,300 - 2014)
16) Ford Puma 26, 580 (12,715 - 2017 (Fiesta))
So I accept the inflation argument and that the new model usually gets a bit more kit, power and space but it's usually only an evolutionary jump and yet the entry-level price of many of these cars has doubled in 10 years or less (almost tripled in the case of the Hyundai i10). Why is this and why is no-one selling a basic 10-15k car any more? Citroen and Skoda used to do it, Hyundai/Kia did it and built their reputaion on it and Dacia more recently but although Dacia technically have the cheapest new car on sale and commendably the cheapest EV (Spring) for about the same money, I would hardly call 15k cheap. I acknowledge that a lot of manufacturers have cancelled their smallest "city"-size cars ie the VW Up!/SEAT Mii/Skoda Citigo and Peugeot 107/108/Citroen C1 etc but the cars from that segment that remain (Hyundai i10/Kia Picanto) are almost as much as the larger ones. Digging back, the VW Up! launched with an entry-level price of 7,995 in 2012 and yet when it went off sale in 2023 that entry-level price had risen over 50% to 12,705 (for basically the same car).
The Suzuki Swift is an interesting example, as up until the current generation (2024), the price hikes for the entry-level car from generation to generation were relatively modest ie 8,995 in 2005, 9,995 in 2010, 10,999 in 2017, so the almost 100% jump to 19,699 in 2024 is difficult to grasp. Likewise, why one would pay 25k for an entry-level Ford is beyond me. They only make one desirable car and are not a "premium" brand, so I'm not sure why they've thrown away a pedigree of sweet-driving, good value family cars like the Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo.
As a former car salesman, I can say that nothing sells better than a cheap, new car whatever the brand even if the offering is a bit sub-par whether it be a Mercedes A-Class, a Volkswagen Fox or even a City Rover, so why is no-one making one?
Ultimately, I bought her a 3k, 13 year old Mercedes A-Class diesel, which she is very happy with. Nothing wrong with it and I know that the new car comparison is a bit irrelevant. I earn a decent salary but it's hard to justify 20k/300 per month for a car that I really want let alone a basic hatchback, so I guess that I'm not going to be buying a brand new car in the forseeable future. A bit like those 400k "starter homes", I'm wondering who can actually afford to buy them!
So, do you think that we will ever return to the halcyon days of the 2000s/2010s when you can buy a basic but decent new car for sub 10k?
Another interesting thread from a salesman’s perspective. The public love cheap basic cars; an example: A friend is a loyal BMW fan to the extent that he is friendly with the staff at the local dealership.In conversation recently he was denigrating the Compact ( anyone remember Hammond saying ‘ you wouldn’t buy half a car, would you?) The BMW staff responded that they couldn’t get enough of them! On a lower level, mature members will remember Ladas selling like hot cakes.1) Dacia Sandero 14,715 (5,995 - 2013)
2) Kia Picanto 16,695 (7,995 - 2011)
3) Toyota Aygo X 16,845 (8,595 - 2014)
4) Hyundai i10 17,100 (6,495 - 2008)
5) MG3 17, 245 (8,399 - 2013)
6) Fiat Grande Panda 18, 035 (8,900 - 2012)
7) Citroen C3 18, 805 (13,750 - 2017)
8) Vauxhall Corsa 18, 910 (8,995 - 2014)
9) Renault Clio 18, 995 (12,675 - 2013)
10) Suzuki Swift 19, 699 (10,999 - 2017)
11) Peugeot 208 20, 245 (11,695 - 2012)
12) SEAT Ibiza 20, 395 (11,395 - 2008)
13) Skoda Fabia 20, 630 (10,600 - 2015)
14) Volkswagen Polo 21, 470 (10,770 - 2009)
15) MINI Cooper 25, 265 (15,300 - 2014)
16) Ford Puma 26, 580 (12,715 - 2017 (Fiesta))
So I accept the inflation argument and that the new model usually gets a bit more kit, power and space but it's usually only an evolutionary jump and yet the entry-level price of many of these cars has doubled in 10 years or less (almost tripled in the case of the Hyundai i10). Why is this and why is no-one selling a basic 10-15k car any more? Citroen and Skoda used to do it, Hyundai/Kia did it and built their reputaion on it and Dacia more recently but although Dacia technically have the cheapest new car on sale and commendably the cheapest EV (Spring) for about the same money, I would hardly call 15k cheap. I acknowledge that a lot of manufacturers have cancelled their smallest "city"-size cars ie the VW Up!/SEAT Mii/Skoda Citigo and Peugeot 107/108/Citroen C1 etc but the cars from that segment that remain (Hyundai i10/Kia Picanto) are almost as much as the larger ones. Digging back, the VW Up! launched with an entry-level price of 7,995 in 2012 and yet when it went off sale in 2023 that entry-level price had risen over 50% to 12,705 (for basically the same car).
The Suzuki Swift is an interesting example, as up until the current generation (2024), the price hikes for the entry-level car from generation to generation were relatively modest ie 8,995 in 2005, 9,995 in 2010, 10,999 in 2017, so the almost 100% jump to 19,699 in 2024 is difficult to grasp. Likewise, why one would pay 25k for an entry-level Ford is beyond me. They only make one desirable car and are not a "premium" brand, so I'm not sure why they've thrown away a pedigree of sweet-driving, good value family cars like the Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo.
As a former car salesman, I can say that nothing sells better than a cheap, new car whatever the brand even if the offering is a bit sub-par whether it be a Mercedes A-Class, a Volkswagen Fox or even a City Rover, so why is no-one making one?
Ultimately, I bought her a 3k, 13 year old Mercedes A-Class diesel, which she is very happy with. Nothing wrong with it and I know that the new car comparison is a bit irrelevant. I earn a decent salary but it's hard to justify 20k/300 per month for a car that I really want let alone a basic hatchback, so I guess that I'm not going to be buying a brand new car in the forseeable future. A bit like those 400k "starter homes", I'm wondering who can actually afford to buy them!
So, do you think that we will ever return to the halcyon days of the 2000s/2010s when you can buy a basic but decent new car for sub 10k?
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 28th August 05:47
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 28th August 05:49
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 28th August 05:50
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 28th August 05:51
My last 5 or 6 cars have been brand new. I love being the first owner, choosing the colour/spec I want, new car smell, full warranty. I love all of that. I feel like my current one might be the last though, I can't justify the cost anymore and the nail in the coffin for me is the ever increasing number of "safety" systems and alerts. I think my next car will be 4 or 5 years old and keep it till it dies.
p4cks said:
Inflation. Helpfully the Bank of England website has a calculator which would have explained everything without the need for another thread
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculatorAll the ones I checked are substantially in excess of inflation.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff