Evidencing late service of a NIP
Evidencing late service of a NIP
Author
Discussion

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,768 posts

49 months

Saturday 30th August
quotequote all

Mrs Furbo is convinced she was zapped by a van two weeks ago today. I am the RK and I've not had a NIP.

We don't get post on a Sunday, so it cannot now be physically served in time.

If a NIP subsequently shows up dated (for example) the middle of last week, how can she / I demonstrate that it was served late?


Super Sonic

10,170 posts

71 months

Saturday 30th August
quotequote all
I thought they had to be posted within the fortnight, not received.

No ideas for a name

2,755 posts

103 months

Saturday 30th August
quotequote all
Super Sonic said:
I thought they had to be posted within the fortnight, not received.
It has to be 'served' in that time.

I think your best option would be to wait for the postman and get him to sign or otherwise note if you get a brown envelope when you receive your post on Monday (and for the next few days).
Maybe 'show' your post being received to a doorbell camera?


carl_w

9,944 posts

275 months

Saturday 30th August
quotequote all
I thought it was considered "served" if it was posted 2 days before the deadline, regardless of when it arrives. At busy times of year (e.g. Christmas) I guess you could argue they should have expected postal delays and posted it earlier.

craigjm

19,576 posts

217 months

Saturday 30th August
quotequote all
carl_w said:
I thought it was considered "served" if it was posted 2 days before the deadline, regardless of when it arrives. At busy times of year (e.g. Christmas) I guess you could argue they should have expected postal delays and posted it earlier.
No it has to arrive at the address to be “served”

carl_w

9,944 posts

275 months

Saturday 30th August
quotequote all
craigjm said:
No it has to arrive at the address to be “served”
Yes but I think it is assumed to have been served if it was posted in time, unless it can be proved otherwise. A timestamped pic of the postie holding it maybe?

agtlaw

7,208 posts

223 months

Saturday 30th August
quotequote all
Furbo said:
Mrs Furbo is convinced she was zapped by a van two weeks ago today. I am the RK and I've not had a NIP.

We don't get post on a Sunday, so it cannot now be physically served in time.

If a NIP subsequently shows up dated (for example) the middle of last week, how can she / I demonstrate that it was served late?
Noted. The deadline is tomorrow as the day of the offence is day 0.

Keep the envelope. The marks on envelope can be good evidence of late service. Is there a witness to the late delivery? (wife, girlfriend, mistress, neighbour, etc.)

If you have a friendly postman then get him to write something on the envelope. E.g. Delivered on [date] by [name].

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,768 posts

49 months

Saturday 30th August
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
Furbo said:
Mrs Furbo is convinced she was zapped by a van two weeks ago today. I am the RK and I've not had a NIP.

We don't get post on a Sunday, so it cannot now be physically served in time.

If a NIP subsequently shows up dated (for example) the middle of last week, how can she / I demonstrate that it was served late?
Noted. The deadline is tomorrow as the day of the offence is day 0.

Keep the envelope. The marks on envelope can be good evidence of late service. Is there a witness to the late delivery? (wife, girlfriend, mistress, neighbour, etc.)

If you have a friendly postman then get him to write something on the envelope. E.g. Delivered on [date] by [name].
Last time I had a NIP (late) the envelope had no date stamp. Happily the date of the notice was day 13, however.

I will ask my wife’s mistress to keep an eye out for the post.



Red Devil

13,316 posts

225 months

Saturday 30th August
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High Court judgement, therefore binding on lower courts - https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/29...

Deemed service is a rebuttable presumption - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/secti...

Gidden was fiortunate because he had an independent supporting witness, his postie, for the late service - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I suspect that most others won't be that lucky.

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,768 posts

49 months

Saturday
quotequote all
It's three weeks since the supposed zapping, and still no NIP, so it is my assumptions we aren't getting one.

Ian Geary

5,068 posts

209 months

Saturday
quotequote all
Furbo said:
I will ask my wife’s mistress to keep an eye out for the post.
OP's relationship status: it's complicated.


Ultimately I find it hard to believe the average magistrate would allow the average punter to claim it was "delivered late" without ironclad evidence - otherwise every chancer would be saying that and we'd here far more about it in the rag tops.

Dave _

126 posts

136 months

Saturday
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Furbo said:
It's three weeks since the supposed zapping, and still no NIP, so it is my assumptions we aren't getting one.
Is the car in your name (not leased, for example) and all details on the v5 definitely correct?

GolfDragon

244 posts

84 months

Saturday
quotequote all
I remember when I first passed my test and would worry about triggering mobile speed camera vans (in the days before Waze and CarPlay/Android Auto. Used to panic for two weeks, then relax. Nothing ever came of them because my first cars indicated 80mph was a GPS 72mph when I used a sat nav.

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,768 posts

49 months

Saturday
quotequote all
Dave _ said:
Furbo said:
It's three weeks since the supposed zapping, and still no NIP, so it is my assumptions we aren't getting one.
Is the car in your name (not leased, for example) and all details on the v5 definitely correct?
Yes.

Dave _

126 posts

136 months

Saturday
quotequote all
Furbo said:
Yes.
Odds are your wife probably wasn’t zapped then. They are usually extremely efficient at getting those “demand letters” out.

Sheepshanks

37,819 posts

136 months

Saturday
quotequote all
To be fair she’s calmed down a bit now camera vans are so prevalent around where we live, but my wife used to be convinced she’d been nicked every time she drove past one. Even if she knew she was doing less than 30 she’d say she might have been going faster.

The one time she was done she was caught by a red light camera - she was always terrified of it catching her so put her foot down and it zapped her for doing 35! The letter arrived very quickly - a couple of days or so.

jondude

2,426 posts

234 months

Sheepshanks said:
To be fair she’s calmed down a bit now camera vans are so prevalent around where we live, but my wife used to be convinced she’d been nicked every time she drove past one. Even if she knew she was doing less than 30 she’d say she might have been going faster.

The one time she was done she was caught by a red light camera - she was always terrified of it catching her so put her foot down and it zapped her for doing 35! The letter arrived very quickly - a couple of days or so.
Does she have an onscreen sat nav? I find it very useful to have the sat nav numeral speed showing as I approach speed cameras, feels more indicative and helpful than the sweep dial speedometer (which is about 3-5 mph too optimistic).




Biker 1

8,194 posts

136 months

My first ever speed NIP from a camera van back in April: offence committed on Sunday, NIP arrived in post the following Saturday. I'm guessing they must have a very efficient post room at camera HQ - it's in their best interests to issue these things ASAP.

Sheepshanks

37,819 posts

136 months

jondude said:
Does she have an onscreen sat nav? I find it very useful to have the sat nav numeral speed showing as I approach speed cameras, feels more indicative and helpful than the sweep dial speedometer (which is about 3-5 mph too optimistic).
She has the multi function display in the instrument panel to display speed (in digits). She also usually has Waze on the infortainment display and that shows GPS speed - she knows it's there but wouldn't routinely look at it.

The speedo in her car isn't very optimistic - it's only 1-2 MPH at 30. Set cruise at 70 and Waze is showing 67.

ARHarh

4,884 posts

124 months

In my experience if they are going to send a NIP it will arrive well inside the time limits. They are pretty used getting stuff like this right.