Indians in the UK
Discussion
This post is only about LEGAL migration
I was in two minds to post this as I am sure allegations of racism will arise. So let me get the classics out of the way
- I have lots of Indian friends
- I am descendent of immigrants so I have no beef with any individual person wanting to improve their life
So I have noticed recently in a few of the cities I frequent that there has been a massive influx of Indians - and when I say massive I mean see a lot of them on the streets/in the shops and working in various venues. This is no surprise as they make up the largest group of recent immigrants.
I want to discuss two separate issues - culture and work.
I've noticed from various other forums recently that there is a lot of heat on Indians at the moment around the world - they seem to be travelling to migrate or go on holiday in large numbers.
On forums like Redditt (which has a worldwide userbase) there are a lot of migrants getting heat in places like the UK, USA, Canada, Germany and even Kazakhstan (apparently they go there to study medicine). Likewise, in places like South East Asia where they go on holiday there seems to be a lot of irritation with their behaviour.
Culture
Lets be honest, of the 3 main Asian immigrant groups we have traditionally had in the UK (Indian, Bengali, Pakistani) the Indians were generally seen as the 'best' in some ways or perhaps the most integrated because they were not Muslim and often were quite westernised (drinking alcohol etc).
The new immigrants though demonstrate some behaviours that are not ideal, being rude, arrogant, very boisterous, harassing women. I've seen all of this first hand in the UK and whilst on holiday in SE Asia.
I wonder if they will integrate as well...and how long it will take.
Work
If you came to my city you might think there was some pre-planned operation to instil Indian migrants in what you might say are lower paid jobs.
Shop staff, restaurants, security etc The sheer number of shops that are staffed almost totally by Indians (when they were not just a few years ago) is quite surprising. If the Indians are doing all these jobs what jobs will all the unemployed residents of the UK do? If I can also be blunt, the language and attitude of some of these people is also not really to the standard you might hope for.
Now given that you are supposed to be doing a highly skilled job to get a VISA these people are probably either students or people working illegally. I know some people that paid a lot of money to come here as care workers but when they came there was no job for them in a care home so they work doing other jobs instead (the people who acted as consultants to get them into the UK made a lot of money off them with the promise of a false job).
I have also seen numerous posts on other forums from Indian students who basically say they were sold a false dream of coming to the UK to study/get a job but have then found it impossible to get a job (again a lot of money paid to consultants who help them come here) so they are working in the lower paid jobs.
This is all great for businesses that want cheap labour no doubt.
I'm not sure where I am going with this post... does this bother me? Yes it kind of does - although I am not frothing about it... I think I may have to pull out the classic line 'the change has happened too fast'. I think I am mainly posting about it because I have been using Reddit recently and its a topic that seems to be coming up on a lot of different type of forums in a lot of countries. I also note that many Indians in India who are wanting to travel abroad are concerned about their reputation abroad now.
I would say it bothers me more than the whole boat people thing because the chances are where I live I am not seeing many of the boat people (as far as I can tell...).
Just to be clear, I am not saying anyone here should be 'kicked out', but I do agree with making the rules on who can stay (or enter) much stricter.
I should add finally, there are lots of other immigrants of all races/cultures in my city - if I go into the supermarket and listen out for all the languages/accents I can be sure that a huge number for recent arrivals. I've only posted about Indians because they are the group that stand out by number.
I was in two minds to post this as I am sure allegations of racism will arise. So let me get the classics out of the way
- I have lots of Indian friends
- I am descendent of immigrants so I have no beef with any individual person wanting to improve their life
So I have noticed recently in a few of the cities I frequent that there has been a massive influx of Indians - and when I say massive I mean see a lot of them on the streets/in the shops and working in various venues. This is no surprise as they make up the largest group of recent immigrants.
I want to discuss two separate issues - culture and work.
I've noticed from various other forums recently that there is a lot of heat on Indians at the moment around the world - they seem to be travelling to migrate or go on holiday in large numbers.
On forums like Redditt (which has a worldwide userbase) there are a lot of migrants getting heat in places like the UK, USA, Canada, Germany and even Kazakhstan (apparently they go there to study medicine). Likewise, in places like South East Asia where they go on holiday there seems to be a lot of irritation with their behaviour.
Culture
Lets be honest, of the 3 main Asian immigrant groups we have traditionally had in the UK (Indian, Bengali, Pakistani) the Indians were generally seen as the 'best' in some ways or perhaps the most integrated because they were not Muslim and often were quite westernised (drinking alcohol etc).
The new immigrants though demonstrate some behaviours that are not ideal, being rude, arrogant, very boisterous, harassing women. I've seen all of this first hand in the UK and whilst on holiday in SE Asia.
I wonder if they will integrate as well...and how long it will take.
Work
If you came to my city you might think there was some pre-planned operation to instil Indian migrants in what you might say are lower paid jobs.
Shop staff, restaurants, security etc The sheer number of shops that are staffed almost totally by Indians (when they were not just a few years ago) is quite surprising. If the Indians are doing all these jobs what jobs will all the unemployed residents of the UK do? If I can also be blunt, the language and attitude of some of these people is also not really to the standard you might hope for.
Now given that you are supposed to be doing a highly skilled job to get a VISA these people are probably either students or people working illegally. I know some people that paid a lot of money to come here as care workers but when they came there was no job for them in a care home so they work doing other jobs instead (the people who acted as consultants to get them into the UK made a lot of money off them with the promise of a false job).
I have also seen numerous posts on other forums from Indian students who basically say they were sold a false dream of coming to the UK to study/get a job but have then found it impossible to get a job (again a lot of money paid to consultants who help them come here) so they are working in the lower paid jobs.
This is all great for businesses that want cheap labour no doubt.
I'm not sure where I am going with this post... does this bother me? Yes it kind of does - although I am not frothing about it... I think I may have to pull out the classic line 'the change has happened too fast'. I think I am mainly posting about it because I have been using Reddit recently and its a topic that seems to be coming up on a lot of different type of forums in a lot of countries. I also note that many Indians in India who are wanting to travel abroad are concerned about their reputation abroad now.
I would say it bothers me more than the whole boat people thing because the chances are where I live I am not seeing many of the boat people (as far as I can tell...).
Just to be clear, I am not saying anyone here should be 'kicked out', but I do agree with making the rules on who can stay (or enter) much stricter.
I should add finally, there are lots of other immigrants of all races/cultures in my city - if I go into the supermarket and listen out for all the languages/accents I can be sure that a huge number for recent arrivals. I've only posted about Indians because they are the group that stand out by number.
Mojooo said:
Now given that you are supposed to be doing a highly skilled job to get a VISA these people are probably either students or people working illegally. I know some people that paid a lot of money to come here as care workers but when they came there was no job for them in a care home so they work doing other jobs instead (the people who acted as consultants to get them into the UK made a lot of money off them with the promise of a false job).
.
The VISA system is massively flawed. A huge number coming over as "students" whose primary intention is to stay once they graduate and then call over their families. One of the few things that the previous Government got right was to increase the salary requirements to £39k..
Regarding the proliferation of "low paid" Indian workers, I suspect a lot of this is down to chain migration following a family member who has come via high skilled routes or via student visas.
An anecdote on the cultural fit of recent Indian migration... I have a Indian neighbour (now naturalised as a UK citizen), who is of the opinion that a large chunk of those who have come recently are not "quality" migrants (his words). He feels like they are the kind of people that he left India to get away from - third world midsets, clannish behaviour, holding on to religious traditions that don't necessarily fit well in a culture like the UK which isn't dominated by religion. He has actively sought not to live in the areas that a lot of the Indian diaspora have congregated in.
An anecdote on the cultural fit of recent Indian migration... I have a Indian neighbour (now naturalised as a UK citizen), who is of the opinion that a large chunk of those who have come recently are not "quality" migrants (his words). He feels like they are the kind of people that he left India to get away from - third world midsets, clannish behaviour, holding on to religious traditions that don't necessarily fit well in a culture like the UK which isn't dominated by religion. He has actively sought not to live in the areas that a lot of the Indian diaspora have congregated in.
Edited by egomeister on Saturday 30th August 16:28
egomeister said:
Regarding the proliferation of "low paid" Indian workers, I suspect a lot of this is down to chain migration following a family member who has come via high skilled routes or via student visas.
An anecdote on the cultural fit of recent Indian migration... I have a Indian neighbour (now naturalised as a UK citizen), who is of the opinion that a large chunk of those who have come recently are "quality" migrants (his words). He feels like they are the kind of people that he left India to get away from - third world midsets, clannish behaviour, holding on to religious traditions that don't necessarily fit well in a culture like the UK which isn't dominated by religion. He has actively sought not to live in the areas that a lot of the Indian diaspora have congregated in.
You mean low quality? A lot of people on Reddit say the sameAn anecdote on the cultural fit of recent Indian migration... I have a Indian neighbour (now naturalised as a UK citizen), who is of the opinion that a large chunk of those who have come recently are "quality" migrants (his words). He feels like they are the kind of people that he left India to get away from - third world midsets, clannish behaviour, holding on to religious traditions that don't necessarily fit well in a culture like the UK which isn't dominated by religion. He has actively sought not to live in the areas that a lot of the Indian diaspora have congregated in.
Also that as they are in large numbers they tend to stay with other people of the same background.
I've met a fair few Indian people through work, but most of them are PhD level engineers and scientists.
India has masses of clever people, universities and all that, but it is slow to make progress, compared to S Korea or China.
The scale of the migration problem is that India alone has enough well qualified people to do every job in the UK, for less.
People need a long hard look at how the world works.
India has masses of clever people, universities and all that, but it is slow to make progress, compared to S Korea or China.
The scale of the migration problem is that India alone has enough well qualified people to do every job in the UK, for less.
People need a long hard look at how the world works.
Mojooo said:
You mean low quality? A lot of people on Reddit say the same
Also that as they are in large numbers they tend to stay with other people of the same background.
Correct, low quality - I have edited my post.Also that as they are in large numbers they tend to stay with other people of the same background.
I don't think he sees it in terms of staying with people of the same background, but of staying with others of the same mindset - bringing all their cultural baggage from home. Admittedly those circles will likely have a large overlap
OutInTheShed said:
I've met a fair few Indian people through work, but most of them are PhD level engineers and scientists.
India has masses of clever people
That's what the paperwork says anyway. Experiences may vary. India has masses of clever people
There's the usual supply of clever people and a lot just sold that way.
Sporky said:
Citation needed. Last study I saw said only 0.3% want to stay when they graduate.
Not sure if it has ever been as low as that. In any case the 2019 Conservative administration made it far easier to get a work VISA after studies were completed and around half of the 2020 foreign student intake is still here. The industry I'm in, due to BREXIT, a lot of engineers have f
ked off "home" (Spain/Greece,Germany etc.)
As a result, we've had to hire more Indians. I would say 75% of them are pretty top-notch, in fact some of our customers keep pinching them, which is testament to that.
Of the remaining 25%, they vary from good but lazy, cherry-picking results, some need to be extremely micromanaged, and within that are those who've managed to blag their way here but do not have the skills or experience they claimed, once they've been set to a task they should be able to carry out. I also doubt their qualifications. They're carefully managed out.
Culturally they tend to stick together, regardless which part of India, and often English is their common language. They're not insular though, they integrate pretty well from what I see, and don't appear to have any hang-ups about western values; taking instruction from women or those of fluid sexuality.
From what I also note, their spouses are Dentists, Teachers, Managers, Media Execs. Therefore, I'd imagine their kids will also go on to have decent professional level careers too.
Overall, I think they'll make a fine contribution to this country.
ked off "home" (Spain/Greece,Germany etc.)As a result, we've had to hire more Indians. I would say 75% of them are pretty top-notch, in fact some of our customers keep pinching them, which is testament to that.
Of the remaining 25%, they vary from good but lazy, cherry-picking results, some need to be extremely micromanaged, and within that are those who've managed to blag their way here but do not have the skills or experience they claimed, once they've been set to a task they should be able to carry out. I also doubt their qualifications. They're carefully managed out.
Culturally they tend to stick together, regardless which part of India, and often English is their common language. They're not insular though, they integrate pretty well from what I see, and don't appear to have any hang-ups about western values; taking instruction from women or those of fluid sexuality.
From what I also note, their spouses are Dentists, Teachers, Managers, Media Execs. Therefore, I'd imagine their kids will also go on to have decent professional level careers too.
Overall, I think they'll make a fine contribution to this country.
I remember back in the 90’s the Indian lads were the only ones the foundry could employ in certain roles as unlike the Brits they weren’t workshy doing upwards of 60 hours per week. Now we all know what happened to the British car industry with strikes and the general couldn’t give a st that’ll do british attitude.
t that’ll do british attitude.mikef said:
Having worked a fair amount in India and with Indian colleagues in the UK and elsewhere, I can’t think that I’ve ever met an Indian I would call arrogant, except maybe a couple of very senior managers in the US. Quite the opposite
My view too, very humble is by-and-large what I've experienced, sometimes I wish they'd be a bit more assertive tbh.The only way I think arrogance could be construed, is that when explaining something it can seem like they're talking down a little, the kids TV presenter persona is how I would characterise it. Think it's just their manner, and they might be aping their instructors.
JagLover said:
Not sure if it has ever been as low as that. In any case the 2019 Conservative administration made it far easier to get a work VISA after studies were completed and around half of the 2020 foreign student intake is still here.
This says 35% remain, so it looks like the other one I read was way off. Doesn't say for how long though, and I'm kit sure their visa would enable them to being daily over, so Countdown still needs to back up their claim or have it dismissed. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...
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