Autocycle rules
Discussion
Does anyone know what the current rules are for riding an autocycle on the road? The vehicles I'm referring to are bicycles fitted with aftermarket petrol engines. They were popular in the early 50s before 'proper' mopeds appeared and when fuel was still in short supply. The one that I'm currently working on is a BSA winged wheel:
This is 'as found', I'm making good progress in getting it into a better state of repair and it should be ready for the road soon. It has a 36cc single cylinder two stroke engine and according to the manual is good for about 25mph. The bicycle it is fitted to is a Phillips one of a similar era (or possible a bit older). It was clearly used as a 'normal' bicycle at some stage in its life, the remains of the original lighting system and rear brake are still there. The idea is that the engine helps you, e.g. you still have to pedal when pulling away or going up steep hills. There are no gears but there is a clutch; on this one you start it by pulling the clutch in, pedaling up to speed and then letting it go. The engine then bump starts and off you go. The speed is controlled by a throttle lever on the handlebars; when you want to stop you close the throttle fully and the engine is strangled and stalls. There isn't an 'idle' position as such.
Even when its all fixed it will still have no speedometer, no brake light, no turn signals and only a basic bicycle brake at the front (the rear brake is bigger, it is part of the engine), as it was when new. It needs to be registered with the DVLA (based on the serial number of the engine, not the frame number of the bicycle) and will need insurance and (in theory) an MOT. The original manual says that it must have a number plate at the back with a light over it.
It used to be the case that these were legal (just...) if fitted to a bicycle of an appropriate age. They couldn't insist that it was the same bicycle that the powered wheel was fitted to when it was new as the frame numbers were never recorded, but if you fitted it to (say) a shiny new mountain bike then that wasn't acceptable. That was how things were about 25 years ago when I first became aware of these things. However, now there are electric bicycles which are basically the same thing except that they are heavier, faster and much more common. They aren't registered, taxed or tested and you don't need to wear a helmet to ride them. Does anyone know if the rules for autocycles have changed in line with these?
This is 'as found', I'm making good progress in getting it into a better state of repair and it should be ready for the road soon. It has a 36cc single cylinder two stroke engine and according to the manual is good for about 25mph. The bicycle it is fitted to is a Phillips one of a similar era (or possible a bit older). It was clearly used as a 'normal' bicycle at some stage in its life, the remains of the original lighting system and rear brake are still there. The idea is that the engine helps you, e.g. you still have to pedal when pulling away or going up steep hills. There are no gears but there is a clutch; on this one you start it by pulling the clutch in, pedaling up to speed and then letting it go. The engine then bump starts and off you go. The speed is controlled by a throttle lever on the handlebars; when you want to stop you close the throttle fully and the engine is strangled and stalls. There isn't an 'idle' position as such.
Even when its all fixed it will still have no speedometer, no brake light, no turn signals and only a basic bicycle brake at the front (the rear brake is bigger, it is part of the engine), as it was when new. It needs to be registered with the DVLA (based on the serial number of the engine, not the frame number of the bicycle) and will need insurance and (in theory) an MOT. The original manual says that it must have a number plate at the back with a light over it.
It used to be the case that these were legal (just...) if fitted to a bicycle of an appropriate age. They couldn't insist that it was the same bicycle that the powered wheel was fitted to when it was new as the frame numbers were never recorded, but if you fitted it to (say) a shiny new mountain bike then that wasn't acceptable. That was how things were about 25 years ago when I first became aware of these things. However, now there are electric bicycles which are basically the same thing except that they are heavier, faster and much more common. They aren't registered, taxed or tested and you don't need to wear a helmet to ride them. Does anyone know if the rules for autocycles have changed in line with these?
I have seen a few 'motorised bicycles' around, including vintage versions with registrations in the early 60s, B,C, D... suffix era.
Vague recollection of someone telling me they were some kind of 'free for all' up until some time around then, when it became necessary to register them in the UK?
There is a Velosolex group on Facebook, somebody there might know the law.
AIUI, they continued to be more of a thing in France/Holland in the 70s, where you could ride them at 14 years of age?
One of my primary school teachers had one for a while, but that was in Somerset where 10 year olds drove tractors.
I've seen the bike in a German museum, with a radial engine built into the front wheel.
Vague recollection of someone telling me they were some kind of 'free for all' up until some time around then, when it became necessary to register them in the UK?
There is a Velosolex group on Facebook, somebody there might know the law.
AIUI, they continued to be more of a thing in France/Holland in the 70s, where you could ride them at 14 years of age?
One of my primary school teachers had one for a while, but that was in Somerset where 10 year olds drove tractors.
I've seen the bike in a German museum, with a radial engine built into the front wheel.
mcdjl said:
If you have to pedal to start it then it's an assisted bike up to 15mph. Over that it gets dodgy. Or used to, I didn't know it those rules have changed with the recent electric bikes.
Have you not heard of Raleigh Runabout, Puch Maxi...they are pedal start and are mopeds, the rules on electric bikes have no relevance to them.lancslad58 said:
Have you not heard of Raleigh Runabout, Puch Maxi...they are pedal start and are mopeds, the rules on electric bikes have no relevance to them.
Anything that is pedal assist (ie started) falls under the same rules. The 15 mph limit may have increased, or those rules changed more significantly. The ones without pedals are different entirely.Studio263 said:
However, now there are electric bicycles which are basically the same thing except that they are heavier, [b]faster [/]and much more common. They aren't registered, taxed or tested and you don't need to wear a helmet to ride them. Does anyone know if the rules for autocycles have changed in line with these?
Not legally. They're limited to 15.5mph, above that they're a moped. mcdjl said:
Anything that is pedal assist (ie started) falls under the same rules. The 15 mph limit may have increased, or those rules changed more significantly. The ones without pedals are different entirely.
I think you’ll find pedal assisted (i.e. legal electric bikes) and pedal started (i.e. Garelli Mosquito) are completely different things with completely different legislation. They’re classes as an L1e low powered moped. This class includes 250W LPM’s (electric bicycles) but unlike electric bikes which are treated under separate legislation (electrically assisted pedal cycle regulations 1983) these would need category AM or Q on your licence and insurance etc.
mcdjl said:
lancslad58 said:
Have you not heard of Raleigh Runabout, Puch Maxi...they are pedal start and are mopeds, the rules on electric bikes have no relevance to them.
Anything that is pedal assist (ie started) falls under the same rules. The 15 mph limit may have increased, or those rules changed more significantly. The ones without pedals are different entirely.lancslad58 said:
So you said earlier but you're still wrong.
Sorry, I misunderstood you. My understanding is that if it has to be pedalled to start it and the motor stops working at 15mph it's a pedal assisted cycle and doesn't need tax etc. If the motor can start it, or it carries on running at over 15mph then it's moped and needs tax etc. Power limits also apply. If that's not right, please correct me.Studio263 said:
It used to be the case that these were legal (just...) if fitted to a bicycle of an appropriate age. They couldn't insist that it was the same bicycle that the powered wheel was fitted to when it was new as the frame numbers were never recorded, but if you fitted it to (say) a shiny new mountain bike then that wasn't acceptable. That was how things were about 25 years ago when I first became aware of these things. However, now there are electric bicycles which are basically the same thing except that they are heavier, faster and much more common. They aren't registered, taxed or tested and you don't need to wear a helmet to ride them. Does anyone know if the rules for autocycles have changed in line with these?
There were never legal without a licence and being registered. My late grandmother often used to mention that the only trouble she'd ever gotten into was many years ago being stopped riding a "Cyclemaster" without a licence. She was fined a few pounds in court. (I don't know if she kept riding it, but she never held a driving licence, but did cycle a lot)Looking at vintage marketing material, they all have registration plates, eg:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rtw501/8687400121
https://cyclemaster.wordpress.com/page-1-history-o...
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