Lower insurance group, higher premium

[croyde]

I have just changed cars from an Alpine A110 to a Dacia Bigster Hybrid.

According to Parkers the Alpine is group 48 and the Dacia is group 27.

Alpine insurance £470 fully comp with commuting, Dacia is £480 minus commuting, both with Aviva.

Cheapest quote via the Meerkats was £390 but non of the lower priced companies would cover the car fully comp whilst abroad, so sticking with Aviva who allows a max of 6 months abroad as long as one trip doesn't exceed 3 months.

Another example of Insurance craziness? 2 years ago my Abarth 695 was £320 and my Dacia Duster £200.

[alscar]

Not craziness just Insurers actuarial data that changes.
2 years is actually quite a long time for revised data sets.
Price changes on completely different cars is not comparable though.
Seems still “decent” price on the Alpine though.

[Sheepshanks]

Did you try the Dacia with commuting? Sometimes odd things happen.

People say “actuarial data” and of course that’s correct but it does also seem that there’s a tombola factor in there too as premiums so often defy logic.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

I think people have ridiculous expectations around insurance pricing due to the fact that insurance for many people has been so cheap for so long.

The Bigster is, from another thread you wrote, brand new i think. You live in the London suburbs. Around £1.50/day for fully comp insurance is just mental, even if you are 62. In Germany you'd pay €1500 for that, give or take.

[Lotobear]

I had our 3 family cars on a group policy - A6 Allroad, wifeys TT and my Elise 111S.

I sold the Elise and notifed them. They actually wanted money off me to take the car off the policy!!

...insurance seems to make little sense

[A500leroy]

Likely more bigsters have made a claim than alpines.

[Richard-390a0]

A500leroy said:

Likely more bigsters have made a claim than alpines.

Exactly! A sports car barely used Vs School run SUV where the yummy mummy is distracted by little Princess in the back & has a series of minor dings etc. It's not comparing like for like is it lol

[untakenname]

It's user profiling, someone with an Alpine is unlikely to be doing the school run in the morning dropping off more than one child or taking it for supermarket runs a mile away.

My car insurance when younger halved when I moved to a 2.3T Saab compared with the previous car (1.4 MG ZR) despite the saab having triple the power.

[Durzel]

Maybe you (you personally, or the insured location) are a bigger component of the premium than the car?

[alscar]

Lotobear said:

I had our 3 family cars on a group policy - A6 Allroad, wifeys TT and my Elise 111S.

I sold the Elise and notifed them. They actually wanted money off me to take the car off the policy!!

...insurance seems to make little sense

It might indeed make “ little sense “ to those that don’t understand how it works.
Each Insurer has their own actuarial and computer assisted modelling data sets and indeed each Insurer has a slightly different business plan driven by their own results.
It’s also a largely market share driven business underwritten on a cyclical basis and in days of high interest and good stock market returns “cap app “also plays a part.
Over any given cycle any mainstream Motor Insurer that returns more than a double digit profit bottom line is considered unusual.

[Lotobear]

alscar said:

Lotobear said:

I had our 3 family cars on a group policy - A6 Allroad, wifeys TT and my Elise 111S.

I sold the Elise and notifed them. They actually wanted money off me to take the car off the policy!!

...insurance seems to make little sense

It might indeed make “ little sense “ to those that don’t understand how it works.
Each Insurer has their own actuarial and computer assisted modelling data sets and indeed each Insurer has a slightly different business plan driven by their own results.
It’s also a largely market share driven business underwritten on a cyclical basis and in days of high interest and good stock market returns “cap app “also plays a part.
Over any given cycle any mainstream Motor Insurer that returns more than a double digit profit bottom line is considered unusual.

I'm still non the wiser after that

[alscar]

Lotobear said:

I'm still non the wiser after that

I rest my case

[J4CKO]

Richard-390a0 said:

A500leroy said:

Likely more bigsters have made a claim than alpines.

Exactly! A sports car barely used Vs School run SUV where the yummy mummy is distracted by little Princess in the back & has a series of minor dings etc. It's not comparing like for like is it lol

Maybe just say used on the school run, its a potentially more hostile environment for a car whoever is driving, without channelling Al Murrays pub landlord.

[Sheepshanks]

untakenname said:

It's user profiling, someone with an Alpine is unlikely to be doing the school run in the morning dropping off more than one child or taking it for supermarket runs a mile away.

That's car profiling, surely?

They'll know how many kids at home he has as it's part of the quote process. Presumeably it's the same number regardless of whether he's insuring the Alpine or the Dacia.

[croyde]

I put Retired instead of TV Cameraman as well. Retirees don't do school runs, at least I don't

As a TV Cameraman my premiums were high because apparently I'd be giving Jennifer Lawrence a lift home on my ratty Vespa or doing donuts in the studio carpark and mowing down Tom Cruise

So I thought level 48 down to 27 and crazy action stuntman cocaine taking cameraman to quiet retiree, might lower my premium

[Lotobear]

alscar said:

Lotobear said:

I'm still non the wiser after that

I rest my case

No case to rest, it's abundantly clear insurers make things deliberately opaque to give them the best chance of ripping off the consumer

[alscar]

Lotobear said:

alscar said:

Lotobear said:

I'm still non the wiser after that

I rest my case

No case to rest, it's abundantly clear insurers make things deliberately opaque to give them the best chance of ripping off the consumer

Clear to you maybe but my earlier attempt to help wasn’t exactly that complicated to understand.
However I see no point in us arguing as we clearly both have a different view which is fine.
Mine might have 42 years of Insurance experience behind it - 37 years as a specialised Underwriter - so I genuinely appreciate that might influence my comments.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

A500leroy said:

Likely more bigsters have made a claim than alpines.

Likely more Fiestas have made claims than Veyrons, but Veyrons still cost more to insure.

[Lotobear]

alscar said:

Lotobear said:

alscar said:

Lotobear said:

I'm still non the wiser after that

I rest my case

No case to rest, it's abundantly clear insurers make things deliberately opaque to give them the best chance of ripping off the consumer

Clear to you maybe but my earlier attempt to help wasn’t exactly that complicated to understand.
However I see no point in us arguing as we clearly both have a different view which is fine.
Mine might have 42 years of Insurance experience behind it - 37 years as a specialised Underwriter - so I genuinely appreciate that might influence my comments.

I'd already worked out you were in insurance thanks - the obtuse and unfathomable jargon laced language, tinged with a tough of patronisation, was the giveaway

[Pica-Pica]

Lotobear said:

alscar said:

Lotobear said:

I had our 3 family cars on a group policy - A6 Allroad, wifeys TT and my Elise 111S.

I sold the Elise and notifed them. They actually wanted money off me to take the car off the policy!!

...insurance seems to make little sense

It might indeed make “ little sense “ to those that don’t understand how it works.
Each Insurer has their own actuarial and computer assisted modelling data sets and indeed each Insurer has a slightly different business plan driven by their own results.
It’s also a largely market share driven business underwritten on a cyclical basis and in days of high interest and good stock market returns “cap app “also plays a part.
Over any given cycle any mainstream Motor Insurer that returns more than a double digit profit bottom line is considered unusual.

I'm still non the wiser after that

Basically, an investor can make more money elsewhere, rather than being a shareholder in an insurance company.