Ever given up on a car because you can't get it repaired?
Discussion
Hi all. So my wife as the big ol' Fiat 500 beast - The 500L MPW 7 seater thing. After EML and limp mode, we had it investigated, and second-opinioned, that the timing chain needs replacing.
So the wife calls her regular guy (a family friend mechanic) he doesn't want to do the job due to lack of experience so hands us on to someone else, who never gets back to us with a quote.
So I go to my guy, who never gets back to us with a quote. So I go to mum's guy, who never gets back to us with a quote. So I go to my brother's guy, who says they're too expensive and too horrible to work on, and he won't take the job on, and recommends we scrap it!
We try ClickMechanic, FixMyCar & AutoButler. One garage gets back to us, which we accept, only to then be blanked again when actually trying to proceed.
We try our official local dealership - No quote. We try our local Fiat specialist - No quote.
Between myself, my wife and my mother-in-law we've tried 15-20 garages in our area. Some have said they can't get the timing chain 'kit' and some have said they don't have/can't get the specialist tool required to do the job. Maybe these are the same things, I don't know.
My mother-in-law is a bit of a Karen and has written to the Fiat CEO. To be fair, she's got results this way in the past! But, surprise, no reply.
The car is a 2015 model on 80k. It really is quite shocking. We feel we're now out of options and will have to scrap the car. To be fair, as a non-runner, it's probably worth less than a grand now (we paid £3,500ish during covid)
Any recommendations appreciated on other ways to proceed, but really I'm just interested as to if anyone else has been in a situation like this?
So the wife calls her regular guy (a family friend mechanic) he doesn't want to do the job due to lack of experience so hands us on to someone else, who never gets back to us with a quote.
So I go to my guy, who never gets back to us with a quote. So I go to mum's guy, who never gets back to us with a quote. So I go to my brother's guy, who says they're too expensive and too horrible to work on, and he won't take the job on, and recommends we scrap it!
We try ClickMechanic, FixMyCar & AutoButler. One garage gets back to us, which we accept, only to then be blanked again when actually trying to proceed.
We try our official local dealership - No quote. We try our local Fiat specialist - No quote.
Between myself, my wife and my mother-in-law we've tried 15-20 garages in our area. Some have said they can't get the timing chain 'kit' and some have said they don't have/can't get the specialist tool required to do the job. Maybe these are the same things, I don't know.
My mother-in-law is a bit of a Karen and has written to the Fiat CEO. To be fair, she's got results this way in the past! But, surprise, no reply.
The car is a 2015 model on 80k. It really is quite shocking. We feel we're now out of options and will have to scrap the car. To be fair, as a non-runner, it's probably worth less than a grand now (we paid £3,500ish during covid)
Any recommendations appreciated on other ways to proceed, but really I'm just interested as to if anyone else has been in a situation like this?
where are you located? Someone will hopefully know someone not too far from you. IF you are in the SE England can recommend a couple.
Its a big time consuming job thats why most garages don't want to get involved takes too much time v's other jobs they could be doing instead making more money for them also they worry about having to give a year warranty as they can still come back with problems after doing it.
Timing chains are a pain we have had to do 6 in the past couple of months and you do need to find the right place for these jobs.
Its a big time consuming job thats why most garages don't want to get involved takes too much time v's other jobs they could be doing instead making more money for them also they worry about having to give a year warranty as they can still come back with problems after doing it.
Timing chains are a pain we have had to do 6 in the past couple of months and you do need to find the right place for these jobs.
Have you plugged in an ODBC reader to see what the actual error is? How can the ECU electronically know that the timing chain needs replacing?
I'd work out where the timing chain sensor is, remove it so that the ECU doesn't know there's an error, keep driving the car until it expires and then scrap it.
I'd work out where the timing chain sensor is, remove it so that the ECU doesn't know there's an error, keep driving the car until it expires and then scrap it.
Edited by VladD on Wednesday 3rd September 12:56
Thats a rubbish situation.
I had a 2002 Megane Convertible in 2005ish and after about 3yrs it developed an electrical fault (who'd have thunk eh!) - I went through several auto-electricians trying to get it traced and sorted, numerous new grounds created, etc.
Ended up handing it back to the finance company just to get rid of it once and for all - it was never MOTd or Taxed again after I did that which seems curious given it was only 6-7yrs old max at that point.
I had a 2002 Megane Convertible in 2005ish and after about 3yrs it developed an electrical fault (who'd have thunk eh!) - I went through several auto-electricians trying to get it traced and sorted, numerous new grounds created, etc.
Ended up handing it back to the finance company just to get rid of it once and for all - it was never MOTd or Taxed again after I did that which seems curious given it was only 6-7yrs old max at that point.
I think extended service intervals do timing chains no favours. My ex wife had a Toyota people carrier with the BMW diesel engine. During Covid she didn't change the oil for well over 20k miles and the engine light came on. Nobody could fix it, or want to touch it so the light was cleared and it went to WBAC.
My car has a chain, I change the oil myself every 5k miles, no sign of chain noise.
I sold a shed Honda Civic years ago and rhe person buying it had a Renault Scenic diesel with Dpf warnings that nobody could fix.
I think we will see more and more of this in the future as cars are so complicated now. Can you see a Chinese EV being repaired in ten years time?
Cars are going to be like every other appliance, mobile phones, laptops, washing machines, dishwashers etc. When they stop working you throw them away and buy a new one.
My car has a chain, I change the oil myself every 5k miles, no sign of chain noise.
I sold a shed Honda Civic years ago and rhe person buying it had a Renault Scenic diesel with Dpf warnings that nobody could fix.
I think we will see more and more of this in the future as cars are so complicated now. Can you see a Chinese EV being repaired in ten years time?
Cars are going to be like every other appliance, mobile phones, laptops, washing machines, dishwashers etc. When they stop working you throw them away and buy a new one.
Thanks for the input guys. Just to reply to some messages above... the chain isn't snapped but due to the EML/limp mode it's undrivable. When scannning, we get the P0016 code, and from Google - A Fiat P0016 code means there's a timing correlation issue between the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor and the camshaft position (CMP) sensor. This is a severe fault that indicates the engine's timing is off. However, I've not tried dedicated Fiat forums or Facebook groups yet, so maybe I'll jump on those for a final opinion.
We're in Essex if anyone does have a contact! Funny thing is, my mum had her timing chain replaced last year and that was an engine out job, which apparently it isn't with the Fiat. But the company that did the engine out, won't touch the Fiat... why!? ClickMechanic quoted only £450 for the job, including parts and labour (with 10% work discount) so it wouldn't seem like a massive labour intensive job, in some respects.
We're in Essex if anyone does have a contact! Funny thing is, my mum had her timing chain replaced last year and that was an engine out job, which apparently it isn't with the Fiat. But the company that did the engine out, won't touch the Fiat... why!? ClickMechanic quoted only £450 for the job, including parts and labour (with 10% work discount) so it wouldn't seem like a massive labour intensive job, in some respects.
We were told the head gasket had gone on our Mazda 6 2.2D, only Mazda would touch the SkyActive engine and wanted £5k plus, but also said it would probably need more parts as the car had done 160k Miles.
I reminded them it has only done 100K miles on that engine, having had the soft cams issue, resulting in an top end rebuild and new turbo, then another new engine and turbo 9 months later when it failed again as they hadn't flushed the swarf from the engine properly...
They suggested the bill could be 10K on a car worth 4-5k, so it was traded in
I reminded them it has only done 100K miles on that engine, having had the soft cams issue, resulting in an top end rebuild and new turbo, then another new engine and turbo 9 months later when it failed again as they hadn't flushed the swarf from the engine properly...
They suggested the bill could be 10K on a car worth 4-5k, so it was traded in
I'd agree on the later... a quote sounds like you want the exact costs broken down and that'll be that, however there's a high chance that things could escalate once a garage starts the job as perhaps they find more issues or possibly because the car is as yet, undiagnosed and thus it's all a speculative and I would suspect that given it's not the easiest wee earner for a garage and has the potential to spiral... and then what? Quote says XX amount so that's what I'm paying... car sits half stripped whilst the costs are argued over etc etc?
I think I'd be deploying shed ethos here as really, it's probably shed territory... but maybe get the whole car assessed first, ie will it needs tyres soon, brakes, is it due an MOT soon? Any other issues underlying, basically is it worth spending four figures on and then you'll be spending more on other stuff soon and therefore at what point do you drop kick it to Car Take Back or similar and just get something else.
It already sounds like hassle and that's before a anybody even gets it on a ramp.
I'd bail out.
I think I'd be deploying shed ethos here as really, it's probably shed territory... but maybe get the whole car assessed first, ie will it needs tyres soon, brakes, is it due an MOT soon? Any other issues underlying, basically is it worth spending four figures on and then you'll be spending more on other stuff soon and therefore at what point do you drop kick it to Car Take Back or similar and just get something else.
It already sounds like hassle and that's before a anybody even gets it on a ramp.
I'd bail out.
There will be someone out there that can do that particular job with their eyes closed.
I regularly help out friends / family when it comes to cars - in terms of maintenance.
One of whom has a 2008 Focus with over 200k, I've managed to get it through MOTs the past 5 years, but every single job has been a battle in terms of corrosion, seized bolts.etc - and thats using a ramp and proper equipment.
I thought 3 years ago he may take pity on me and just get rid, but Its got to the point now whereby I've told him I wont be working on it again.
Im not wasting any of my time with mates rates / doing jobs for nothing when spending hours battling old fords.
For that reason I imagine thats why a lot of mechanics will reject jobs on some cars, purely because they may spend an hour on a single bolt.
Ive seen some specialists of older cars state on the quotation that the cost may be £1k+ if issues are encountered during particular jobs.
I regularly help out friends / family when it comes to cars - in terms of maintenance.
One of whom has a 2008 Focus with over 200k, I've managed to get it through MOTs the past 5 years, but every single job has been a battle in terms of corrosion, seized bolts.etc - and thats using a ramp and proper equipment.
I thought 3 years ago he may take pity on me and just get rid, but Its got to the point now whereby I've told him I wont be working on it again.
Im not wasting any of my time with mates rates / doing jobs for nothing when spending hours battling old fords.
For that reason I imagine thats why a lot of mechanics will reject jobs on some cars, purely because they may spend an hour on a single bolt.
Ive seen some specialists of older cars state on the quotation that the cost may be £1k+ if issues are encountered during particular jobs.
They are a PITA to work on as the engines are quite low down.
But its nothing too bad to do - Audi / BMW are waaay more complex.
The timing chains, IIRC, should be replaced around 80k as they stretch.
The main reason people don't want this job is:
A) High chance of finding serious damage once in there - customers don't want to pay!
B) High chance of leaks / mis timing causing even more issues meaning warranty work / costs
C) Techs can do 10 other jobs in the time it takes to do this 1 job.
Main dealers should do this no problem at all. But it will be £2k IME.
I guess the car is worth what £3k?
So its probably not economical to do that..
A decent independent will be half the cost. But again, you run the risk of they get into the timing cover after 3-4 hours work and its kaput. Then what?
Is it petrol or diesel? Does it actually run?
But its nothing too bad to do - Audi / BMW are waaay more complex.
The timing chains, IIRC, should be replaced around 80k as they stretch.
The main reason people don't want this job is:
A) High chance of finding serious damage once in there - customers don't want to pay!
B) High chance of leaks / mis timing causing even more issues meaning warranty work / costs
C) Techs can do 10 other jobs in the time it takes to do this 1 job.
Main dealers should do this no problem at all. But it will be £2k IME.
I guess the car is worth what £3k?
So its probably not economical to do that..
A decent independent will be half the cost. But again, you run the risk of they get into the timing cover after 3-4 hours work and its kaput. Then what?
Is it petrol or diesel? Does it actually run?
I chose not to have one repaired. It was the third car in our “ fleet” a 2010 Peugeot 308 SW in very clean condition with 80k on the clock. The problem was that it was running sluggishly and like a pig, but intermittently( worst scenario). At other times it was spot on. After faffing about and seeing much utter rubbish on line, interspersed with snake oil ads, I drove to a trusted mechanic, it was diagnosed as a high pressure diesel pump. But - here we go- to get to it the timing belt and associated ancillaries ‘ might as well’ be replaced. One thing, seemingly solved, leads to another. So it was passed on via the trade for £800. My relief was immense, despite a bus lane fine incurred when driving it to the garage in a less than salubrious area.
Edited by Lester H on Thursday 4th September 11:49
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