Cheap EV charger - UK Legal?
Discussion
The first question is, do you have a commando electrical output at your house? If not then you are better of getting a proper charger installed as it will cost around the same to get a commando connector installed in the end. Technically commando sockets are not approved for domestic use anyway unless the necessary risk assessments have been done.
kambites said:
It doesn't look like that particular device has PEN fault detection, so I think you'd need an earth spike to use it. I'm not 100% sure that requirement applies to pluggable chargers like that though.
Given the current frothing about PEN fault protection doing the rounds, is there a recognised standard symbol that would be somehow embossed/etched/moulded into the casing of such a device?normalbloke said:
kambites said:
It doesn't look like that particular device has PEN fault detection, so I think you'd need an earth spike to use it. I'm not 100% sure that requirement applies to pluggable chargers like that though.
Given the current frothing about PEN fault protection doing the rounds, is there a recognised standard symbol that would be somehow embossed/etched/moulded into the casing of such a device?L88AGC said:
I’ve had an ev & hybrid for 3 years. I charge via the Tesla granny charger with 32a commando adapter 7kw works just fine and has done all that time.
Everyone always says that, but it's the same as electric scoters loads of people say they have had no issue but just once in a while one catches fire. Now we are plagued with them it's a major headache with at least 2 a week for London fire brigade alone. ashenfie said:
L88AGC said:
I’ve had an ev & hybrid for 3 years. I charge via the Tesla granny charger with 32a commando adapter 7kw works just fine and has done all that time.
Everyone always says that, but it's the same as electric scoters loads of people say they have had no issue but just once in a while one catches fire. Now we are plagued with them it's a major headache with at least 2 a week for London fire brigade alone. I know some garages are wired really badly, but that's not really the fault of, or a problem with, granny chargers.
Edited by kambites on Friday 5th September 10:44
kambites said:
ashenfie said:
L88AGC said:
I’ve had an ev & hybrid for 3 years. I charge via the Tesla granny charger with 32a commando adapter 7kw works just fine and has done all that time.
Everyone always says that, but it's the same as electric scoters loads of people say they have had no issue but just once in a while one catches fire. Now we are plagued with them it's a major headache with at least 2 a week for London fire brigade alone. I know some garages are wired really badly, but that's not really the fault of, or a problem with, granny chargers.
Edited by kambites on Friday 5th September 10:44
I have been looking at these, the Syncwire 3 pin plug option is meant to get quite a good review. It's on offer on a mazon at the moment. I'm waiting for my home charger to be installed and haven't had a date yet, so am charging my new car on public chargers which is proving quite expensive.
So wondering if it's worth getting one? For £100 I think I may just give it a go
So wondering if it's worth getting one? For £100 I think I may just give it a go
ashenfie said:
I appreciate that these are things we consider to be correct, but that not really the hole story. Domestic electrical systems were originally designed to supply power to devices within the home. Over the years we have used devices outside, but I can’t think though of another device that will draw 10amps continuously for many hours. Yes granny chargers are limit to 10 amps for that reason. There may not be a rcd installed on the circuit who knows about pen protection. Further using an extension cable would add significant dangers. So no it’s not like cutting the grass or having a fridge in the garage.
Yes, some houses have appalling electrical wiring either because it's ancient or it has been bodged. A great many don't, though. I wouldn't use a granny charger on a random socket in someone else's garage; but I have absolutely no issues using one in my garage where I know the consumer unit meets modern requirements and know the wiring intimately (since I installed it all). kambites said:
Granny charges should not be more dangerous than any other high current electrical device as long as the socket they're plugged into isn't rubbish. 7kW is obviously a bit more specialist, but most granny chargers are only 13 amp which is no more than many other domestic white goods draw.
I know the discussion was predominantly about plug in 'chargers' and CEE/Commando plugs...However, that quoted above is slightly misleading. There is some argument as to testing BS1363 sockets. I can't find the reference at the moment, but I believe the 13A test is only for a limited time... probably until the temperature stabilises. It is possible that the heating for extended sessions of drawing high current will still damage a quality 13A outlet. That, I believe is why 'granny chargers' typically run at 10A.
Long term effects could be the heat altering the contact pressure of the copper contacts, plus the plastics deforming. That then gives you positive feedback of poor contact and more heating etc.
Of course a 3kW kettle is fine as it only takes a mninute to boil, washing machines are usually less than full load and again might only draw peak load for an hour.
Most of the time, with a quality socket, you will probably get away with it.
Note even quality manufacturers sell sockets wheich they claim are 'EV' outlets, which are spec'd higher than their ordinary duty (but still compliant) items.
That added to - as you identify - some cabling/instalation in garages can be a bit 'special'.
In domestic environments that's all fair, but plenty of small business offices run entire server racks off standard three-pin plugs and they can very easily be pulling 13amps (sometimes considerably more) constantly, day in day out, for years. I have seen a couple of outlets burn out through that sort of use, but it's extremely rare and neither resulted in worse than a brief server outage and a rather unpleasant smell. 
It's also common in many places that have considerably less strict electrical standards than the UK to run things like air conditioners and immersion heaters from standard wall sockets.
Each to their own I guess; if you're really risk-averse, no-one is going to force you to do it!
10amps isn't actually very much current.

It's also common in many places that have considerably less strict electrical standards than the UK to run things like air conditioners and immersion heaters from standard wall sockets.
Each to their own I guess; if you're really risk-averse, no-one is going to force you to do it!
10amps isn't actually very much current.
Edited by kambites on Friday 5th September 20:09
kambites said:
In domestic environments that's all fair, but plenty of small business offices run entire server racks off standard three-pin plugs and they can very easily be pulling 13amps (sometimes considerably more) constantly, day in day out, for years. I have seen a couple of outlets burn out through that sort of use, but it's extremely rare and neither resulted in worse than a brief server outage and a rather unpleasant smell. 
It's also common in many places that have considerably less strict electrical standards than the UK to run things like air conditioners and immersion heaters from standard wall sockets.
Each to their own I guess; if you're really risk-averse, no-one is going to force you to do it!
10amps isn't actually very much current.
Working with the it industry I’ve see a few of those doggy server racks catch fire as the fans clogs up in dust and overheating. You only Need .1 of an amp and that could kill you. 
It's also common in many places that have considerably less strict electrical standards than the UK to run things like air conditioners and immersion heaters from standard wall sockets.
Each to their own I guess; if you're really risk-averse, no-one is going to force you to do it!
10amps isn't actually very much current.
Edited by kambites on Friday 5th September 20:09
Edited by ashenfie on Saturday 6th September 07:23
A decent manufacturer supplied granny ‘charger’ in the U.K. almost always has a temperature sensor/protection built into the 3 pin plug or the CEE plug and will throttle back or shut down as it sees fit.This is why they put so much emphasis on not using extension leads. Other supplied plug in chargers may or may not do this.
nordboy said:
I have been looking at these, the Syncwire 3 pin plug option is meant to get quite a good review. It's on offer on a mazon at the moment. I'm waiting for my home charger to be installed and haven't had a date yet, so am charging my new car on public chargers which is proving quite expensive.
So wondering if it's worth getting one? For £100 I think I may just give it a go
Just give it a go? It can run 1/3rd of the total power your house to your car. Do not just 'give it a go'. EV charging isn't like getting an extension lead for your lawnmover.So wondering if it's worth getting one? For £100 I think I may just give it a go
I put the image into a Google search expecting to find dozens of similar rebranded devices. Surprisingly, I didn't. I did however find the Shopify website. With zero information about the charger, only an email contact and incomplete sections it doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Oh, and the domain is unsurprisingly registered in China. You can however buy the charger for the bargain price of €79,99 (still fulfilled by Amazon) if you want to 'give it a go'.
https://www.bokmanev.com/collections/ev-charging-c...
https://www.bokmanev.com/collections/ev-charging-c...
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