HMRC Connect - AI tax checks
HMRC Connect - AI tax checks
Author
Discussion

J4CKO

Original Poster:

44,954 posts

218 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
Heard about this the other day and this video popped up in my YT feed,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c242gLJa1Os

Its interesting stuff and potentially worrying for anyone playing a bit fast and loose with their tax return. Personally dont have any concerns as I am a PAYE monkey and get rinsed at source.

It matches you bank activity, social media, the Land registry and DVLA records to check your lifestyle matches your declared income level, if not you might be getting invited for a chat.

I am torn, it seems pretty invasive, but its all data they own and are now joining the dots, so if you run a Lamborghini Urus and run a small shop that makes 25 grand a year, I suspect that there will be a few questions to answer..Where before it was innocuous, divorced info about ownership of a car for VED and enforcement purposes, now its evidence that you are up to something.

I bet its turning up allsorts, will be folk in receipt of thousands in benefits living in a posh house and driving flash cars, will be folk with ner a pot to urinate in who are worth millions, must be a huge overlap with the cash economy, its not like you can buy big items like cars and houses and not have a paper trail I guess ? Its going to point out a lot of criminals, five million quid Essex mansion and a fleet of Bentleys, but not that much legit income ?

Would take human investigators ages to scan one persons position, this can do it in seconds and then flag it for the investigators to have a look at and see whether its worth pursuing.

RSTurboPaul

12,382 posts

276 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Heard about this the other day and this video popped up in my YT feed,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c242gLJa1Os

Its interesting stuff and potentially worrying for anyone playing a bit fast and loose with their tax return. Personally dont have any concerns as I am a PAYE monkey and get rinsed at source.

It matches you bank activity, social media, the Land registry and DVLA records to check your lifestyle matches your declared income level, if not you might be getting invited for a chat.

I am torn, it seems pretty invasive, but its all data they own and are now joining the dots, so if you run a Lamborghini Urus and run a small shop that makes 25 grand a year, I suspect that there will be a few questions to answer..Where before it was innocuous, divorced info about ownership of a car for VED and enforcement purposes, now its evidence that you are up to something.

I bet its turning up allsorts, will be folk in receipt of thousands in benefits living in a posh house and driving flash cars, will be folk with ner a pot to urinate in who are worth millions, must be a huge overlap with the cash economy, its not like you can buy big items like cars and houses and not have a paper trail I guess ? Its going to point out a lot of criminals, five million quid Essex mansion and a fleet of Bentleys, but not that much legit income ?

Would take human investigators ages to scan one persons position, this can do it in seconds and then flag it for the investigators to have a look at and see whether its worth pursuing.
Removing data silos to enable a global, comprehensive (digitally administered and tracked) identity per person?

I'm sure that will have nothing to do with mandatory Digital ID that (the shadowy globalists behind) Starmer will be rolling out later this year for every single person.


Interesting also that punishments for crimes are planned to (can already now?) include unrelated things like suspension of driving licences, as if a person will have no ability to separate different parts of their life.

One might wonder whether the overarching aim is total surveillance and control of individuals

.

Edited by RSTurboPaul on Wednesday 10th September 14:56

Terminator X

18,433 posts

222 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
How are they allowed access to your personal bank account? I'm sure I've never agreed to that and nor would I if asked.

TX.

lancslad58

1,510 posts

26 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
How are they allowed access to your personal bank account? I'm sure I've never agreed to that and nor would I if asked.

TX.
They can't it's just complete and utter crap from someone who doesn't know what she's talking about.

J4CKO

Original Poster:

44,954 posts

218 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
How are they allowed access to your personal bank account? I'm sure I've never agreed to that and nor would I if asked.

TX.
Yeah, they cant check your EV charging payments, Dominos bills, Bargin booze transactions and "online purchases" TX, but they can see interest payments, dividends, ISA payments, pensions contributions, investments etc, and if you for example get 5 grand interest payments yet put down you earn 12k a year, that does give them an insight into what you have in the bank.

Its a little hyperbolic as she is likely trying to drive trade to her business but it does make me think that they now have the tools they need to crack down, and its only just started, as a PAYE tax payer I am not in the sights, but a lot of folk will be stting it I expect. And its not just the very wealthy, its anyone with "anomalies" in their situation that they want explaining.

arfur

3,974 posts

232 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
Connect is a thing though.. It's been around in one form or another for years

Used to use Detica NetReveal and TextReveal for some of it's entity resolution stuff

RSTurboPaul

12,382 posts

276 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
lancslad58 said:
Terminator X said:
How are they allowed access to your personal bank account? I'm sure I've never agreed to that and nor would I if asked.

TX.
They can't it's just complete and utter crap from someone who doesn't know what she's talking about.
Looks like HMRC can ask your bank for loads of different stuff - and would any bank push back on a request?

https://legalclarity.org/when-and-how-can-hmrc-che...

SP_

2,981 posts

123 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
Hopefully they can collect more tax to piss up the wall and improve public services in exactly 0 ways

Countdown

45,510 posts

214 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
How are they allowed access to your personal bank account? I'm sure I've never agreed to that and nor would I if asked.

TX.
Apparently they can

Countdown

45,510 posts

214 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Yeah, they cant check your EV charging payments, Dominos bills, Bargin booze transactions and "online purchases" TX, but they can see interest payments, dividends, ISA payments, pensions contributions, investments etc, and if you for example get 5 grand interest payments yet put down you earn 12k a year, that does give them an insight into what you have in the bank.

Its a little hyperbolic as she is likely trying to drive trade to her business but it does make me think that they now have the tools they need to crack down, and its only just started, as a PAYE tax payer I am not in the sights, but a lot of folk will be stting it I expect. And its not just the very wealthy, its anyone with "anomalies" in their situation that they want explaining.
Happy to be corrected but unless you're fiddling your taxes I'm not sure why anybody would be worried about this. It would hopefully make tax collection more efficient and reduce the tax gap.

J4CKO

Original Poster:

44,954 posts

218 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
Countdown said:
J4CKO said:
Yeah, they cant check your EV charging payments, Dominos bills, Bargin booze transactions and "online purchases" TX, but they can see interest payments, dividends, ISA payments, pensions contributions, investments etc, and if you for example get 5 grand interest payments yet put down you earn 12k a year, that does give them an insight into what you have in the bank.

Its a little hyperbolic as she is likely trying to drive trade to her business but it does make me think that they now have the tools they need to crack down, and its only just started, as a PAYE tax payer I am not in the sights, but a lot of folk will be stting it I expect. And its not just the very wealthy, its anyone with "anomalies" in their situation that they want explaining.
Happy to be corrected but unless you're fiddling your taxes I'm not sure why anybody would be worried about this. It would hopefully make tax collection more efficient and reduce the tax gap.
Indeed, if you are all legit then nothing to worry about, I personally dont do a tax return any more as been PAYE for ages, just interested in how it will affect those who arent paying their fair share.

All those places that only take cash for example, very low declared income but 200 grand car, 2 million quid house ?

Takeaway near me still refuses to take cards, been seen burning receipts in the yard at the back, always busy, must do well, apparently the card fees decimate his profit margin, yeah, right, 0.4 percent on a fifty quid meal, its not the cash coming in and being sent back out again without every touching the books thats the not the draw then ?

I know Rachel from accounts is going to bum us all again the next budget, partly will be down to all those folk rinsing the tax system, get those and we might get a bit of a reprieve, though I doubt it. Was in Selfridges the other day, was watching someone paying £1500 or so for a coat, all in cash, and its pretty normal, might be all above board, or might be someone getting rid of dodgy cash.


Actual

1,427 posts

124 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Indeed, if you are all legit then nothing to worry about...
There is the worry of being investigated and the effort and even professional costs to prove your legitimate status.

Peterpetrole

1,073 posts

15 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Terminator X said:
How are they allowed access to your personal bank account? I'm sure I've never agreed to that and nor would I if asked.

TX.
Apparently they can
Doesn't surprise me, but I have no issue with it as an upstanding gentleman

Countdown

45,510 posts

214 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
On a slightly related note I've been informed by somebody that the amount of access that the Government (and in particular the Security Services) already have to our personal details would shock most people.

super7

2,162 posts

226 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
If the Inland Revenue can cross reference Tax recipts to Bank accounts and review it to see if we're dodging tax, they will also be able to see that general Joe Bloggs has a st standard of living after paying all their Tax.

Terminator X

18,433 posts

222 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Terminator X said:
How are they allowed access to your personal bank account? I'm sure I've never agreed to that and nor would I if asked.

TX.
Yeah, they cant check your EV charging payments, Dominos bills, Bargin booze transactions and "online purchases" TX, but they can see interest payments, dividends, ISA payments, pensions contributions, investments etc, and if you for example get 5 grand interest payments yet put down you earn 12k a year, that does give them an insight into what you have in the bank.

Its a little hyperbolic as she is likely trying to drive trade to her business but it does make me think that they now have the tools they need to crack down, and its only just started, as a PAYE tax payer I am not in the sights, but a lot of folk will be stting it I expect. And its not just the very wealthy, its anyone with "anomalies" in their situation that they want explaining.
Also how would they connect it all to your social media. If your name was John Smith there would be millions of accounts that it could be.

I agree with you btw, AI + possible quantum computing and we are fked for stuff like this. AI is for our benefit though yes wink

TX.

PhilboSE

5,407 posts

244 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
Connect has been around for years. Pretty much every single financial institution of every sort in the uk shares data with them, and increasingly many offshore/non-UK ones as well. Banks routinely share data on things like tax certificates and even finer granularity.

HMRC could pretty much fill in most people’s Self Assessment returns in advance, these days most of what they do is just checking you’ve declared what they already know.

Terminator X

18,433 posts

222 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
RSTurboPaul said:
lancslad58 said:
Terminator X said:
How are they allowed access to your personal bank account? I'm sure I've never agreed to that and nor would I if asked.

TX.
They can't it's just complete and utter crap from someone who doesn't know what she's talking about.
Looks like HMRC can ask your bank for loads of different stuff - and would any bank push back on a request?

https://legalclarity.org/when-and-how-can-hmrc-che...
"HMRC may request bank account information in several specific situations. These often arise during tax investigations into various tax types, including income tax, VAT, or corporation tax."

Frightening. As with all things like this, brought in for good reason eg fraud etc but then often used and abused "oh yeah we need access to Little Jonnies suspicious account ..."

TX.

Edit - another WTF for this too:

"New rules plan to make it easier for HMRC to collect tax on savings directly from people s bank accounts.
From April 2027, savings providers will be asked to provide new and existing customers National Insurance numbers to HMRC.
This is to allow HMRC to take action against savers who have gone over their personal savings allowance (£500 for basic rate taxpayer and £1,000 for higher rate taxpayers)."

And this:

"Can HMRC take money from my account without my permission?
Yes, in some circumstances HMRC can take money directly from your bank account. HMRC can take money from your account without permission if you owe more than £1,000 in unpaid tax and haven’t responded to them on several occasions. However, they’re required to leave at least £5,000 across your accounts."

Edited by Terminator X on Wednesday 10th September 15:56


Edited by Terminator X on Wednesday 10th September 15:57

super7

2,162 posts

226 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
They should be able to catch all the Benefit cheats who have multiple Holidays a year in Dubai etc and drive to food banks in their LR Discovery's.

J4CKO

Original Poster:

44,954 posts

218 months

Wednesday 10th September
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
J4CKO said:
Terminator X said:
How are they allowed access to your personal bank account? I'm sure I've never agreed to that and nor would I if asked.

TX.
Yeah, they cant check your EV charging payments, Dominos bills, Bargin booze transactions and "online purchases" TX, but they can see interest payments, dividends, ISA payments, pensions contributions, investments etc, and if you for example get 5 grand interest payments yet put down you earn 12k a year, that does give them an insight into what you have in the bank.

Its a little hyperbolic as she is likely trying to drive trade to her business but it does make me think that they now have the tools they need to crack down, and its only just started, as a PAYE tax payer I am not in the sights, but a lot of folk will be stting it I expect. And its not just the very wealthy, its anyone with "anomalies" in their situation that they want explaining.
Also how would they connect it all to your social media. If your name was John Smith there would be millions of accounts that it could be.

I agree with you btw, AI + possible quantum computing and we are fked for stuff like this. AI is for our benefit though yes wink

TX.
Its not done routinely, only if there is a potential issue they want to look into.

Basically they will match like if you are trying to find an old mate, Facial recognition from photos, date of birth, who you associate with, check ins, what you post and a cheeky look at your missus on holiday in her Bikini, maybe not the last one....

Thing is, they arent arsed about most of us, and hopefully if folk are rinsing it they get to alter their ways and pay their dues, there are so many clearly taking the piss.

And yes, it may be used to weed out fraudulent benfit claims.