SJP / Polaris 4

[jakesmith]

I'm using a wealth manger for my affairs at present and they have offered me an investment opportunity via St James Place, a fund of funds called Polaris 4. They have a 2% management fee on top of fund charges and have demonstrated growth of 38% over the last 3 years. Appreciate that past performance isn't an indicator of the future etc, I am 45 so have a good 15-20 years to retirement, I do not have the time or knowledge to manage / pick funds myself, are there any watch-outs or red flags associated with this specific route of investment / platform / fund etc that I should be aware of? THanks in advance for any replies

[guyvert1]

@ 2% fee 'on top' I'd steer clear, google investment fee calculator and work out how much that will cost you, then look elsewhere!

[alscar]

Your WM is obviously a “partner” of SJP to offer such.
Polaris offerings are a fund of funds.
Returns since being offered ( they are relatively new ) is lower than perhaps you could pick with a basket of a number of separate funds.
I sense Polaris is offered to make the WM’s life easier.
SJP have clarified / simplified their charge structure since end of August although overall cost is only marginally reduced.
The initial entry charge remains punchy.

[Mr Pointy]

jakesmith said:

I'm using a wealth manger for my affairs at present and they have offered me an investment opportunity via St James Place, a fund of funds called Polaris 4. They have a 2% management fee on top of fund charges and have demonstrated growth of 38% over the last 3 years. Appreciate that past performance isn't an indicator of the future etc, I am 45 so have a good 15-20 years to retirement, I do not have the time or knowledge to manage / pick funds myself, are there any watch-outs or red flags associated with this specific route of investment / platform / fund etc that I should be aware of? THanks in advance for any replies

Do you think 38% is a good return for all the additional charges your "wealth manager" & SJP will take? Here's a clue: Vantage Lifestrategy 100 did 38.55% from 11/09/2022 (£298.01) to 12/09/2025 (£412.92) so your proposed investment couldn't really be described as outperforming the market. That's before you start on the thorny topic of SJP, but their fan boys will be along in a few posts.

I'd suggest asking yourself what value your wealth manager is adding for his fees.

[alscar]

I would think that the 38% should be net of all charges which is usually how SJP produce their numbers.

[Mr Pointy]

alscar said:

I would think that the 38% should be net of all charges which is usually how SJP produce their numbers.

True, but in a period of good returns they have performed no better than a tracker & in bad times the charges are a huge drag.

[bitchstewie]

I wouldn't call that "an investment opportunity".

[Scootersp]

Ask them if they previously would have advised you to join St James Place Property fund after you've read this October 23 article.

https://www.sjp.co.uk/media-centre/latest-news/st-... (it is still suspended I believe)

Then ask them about the small print on the fund they are advising you go for and whether the same sort fo freeze could happen to that in extreme circumstances and then at least you are going in eyes wide open.

I have no links/involvement with them, but when I read about this sort of thing it tells me the finer details, the 'small chance fo ever happening' risks are glossed over, but the fund has written into it's prospectus/temrs......something akin to "in extreme circumstances we can freeze withdrawals for an unspecified time"

[alscar]

Mr Pointy said:

alscar said:

I would think that the 38% should be net of all charges which is usually how SJP produce their numbers.

True, but in a period of good returns they have performed no better than a tracker & in bad times the charges are a huge drag.

Agreed although not the point of my net comment.
Apples v apples etc.

[alscar]

bhstewie said:

I wouldn't call that "an investment opportunity".

Nor me but that’s how some WM/ FA’s talk.

[alscar]

Scootersp said:

Ask them if they previously would have advised you to join St James Place Property fund after you've read this October 23 article.

https://www.sjp.co.uk/media-centre/latest-news/st-... (it is still suspended I believe)

Then ask them about the small print on the fund they are advising you go for and whether the same sort fo freeze could happen to that in extreme circumstances and then at least you are going in eyes wide open.

I have no links/involvement with them, but when I read about this sort of thing it tells me the finer details, the 'small chance fo ever happening' risks are glossed over, but the fund has written into it's prospectus/temrs......something akin to "in extreme circumstances we can freeze withdrawals for an unspecified time"

SJP weren’t the only entity to have ended up with shuttered Property Funds - I think they were some higher profiles one too but that said agree with your sentiments.
Going back to the OP , if your WM is giving you advice and presumably knows your risk appetite matrix and then you double check that on here , I’d also make perhaps an obvious comment that maybe you might need a different WM !

[IJWS15]

Having moved to SJP (pension consolidation 5 years ago) I complained about performance 2 years ago and said I was looking at leaving. My other self managed pensions were doing better than SJP.

Result was the SHP pension fund went into Polaris and since then has been doing way better than the nonSJP pensions.

Can you do better than SHP - yes but it takes time and effort. Fisher were too bullish to trust and Close were too honest(they said that with the same risk profile returns would be similar and charges were on a par)
Some of my self managed is in an S&P tracker and it is the poorest performing of all!

Yes - the SJP property fund is still frozen - while they wind it up (don’t ask me how I know).

[Scootersp]

Have a read of page 20 and 21

https://www.sjp.co.uk/sites/sjp-corp/files/SJP/pro...


it's I'm sure all standard 'fund' fair but it may make you consider sizing that goes in this or others, given the liquidity event they speak of likely effectign other equity funds at the same time?

[okgo]

IJWS15 said:

Having moved to SJP (pension consolidation 5 years ago) I complained about performance 2 years ago and said I was looking at leaving. My other self managed pensions were doing better than SJP.

Result was the SHP pension fund went into Polaris and since then has been doing way better than the nonSJP pensions.

Can you do better than SHP - yes but it takes time and effort. Fisher were too bullish to trust and Close were too honest(they said that with the same risk profile returns would be similar and charges were on a par)
Some of my self managed is in an S&P tracker and it is the poorest performing of all!

Yes - the SJP property fund is still frozen - while they wind it up (don t ask me how I know).

S&P over 3 years has outperformed anything mentioned on this thread. What do you mean it’s been the poorest for you?

[PM3]

okgo said:

IJWS15 said:

Having moved to SJP (pension consolidation 5 years ago) I complained about performance 2 years ago and said I was looking at leaving. My other self managed pensions were doing better than SJP.

Result was the SHP pension fund went into Polaris and since then has been doing way better than the nonSJP pensions.

Can you do better than SHP - yes but it takes time and effort. Fisher were too bullish to trust and Close were too honest(they said that with the same risk profile returns would be similar and charges were on a par)
Some of my self managed is in an S&P tracker and it is the poorest performing of all!

Yes - the SJP property fund is still frozen - while they wind it up (don t ask me how I know).

S&P over 3 years has outperformed anything mentioned on this thread. What do you mean it s been the poorest for you?

Absolutely . My two simple Vanguard ETF's ( VUAG and VHVG ) mix have performed over 42% between them Sept to Sept last 3 years .
Unadvised and under 0.25% per year total cost

I do have another fund that is very volaatile and high return elsewhere , but that is a manageable prtion of my investments so matters not in scheme of things

OP read that 0 . 25 % ( its actuallly less ) not 2% plus per year. That's a lot of money after several years never mind decades at your stage .
My mum in her 90s has been feeding SJP for years what would now make a sum that would make anyone happy if they had it as a lump sum at retirement . Thankfully her " FA" had her funds in what amounts to major index trackers, so she has still done ok.
I stepped in last year and ended the increase in funds under management nonsese for someone at her age . She is now sending her extra savings to help less well off relatives ( I don't ask/take a penny ) further down the age range !

None of this is to be considered as advice.

[Simpo Two]

jakesmith said:

I'm using a wealth manger for my affairs at present and they have offered me an investment opportunity via St James Place, a fund of funds called Polaris 4. They have a 2% management fee on top of fund charges and have demonstrated growth of 38% over the last 3 years....

At this point the word NO in big letters came to mind. A monkey could have made 38% in the last 3 years.

Far too many layers of costs and charges there to be remotely sensible IMHO. Is your 'wealth manager' an IFA?

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/arti...

[mikef]

bhstewie said:

I wouldn't call that "an investment opportunity".

Well, it’s wealth-making opportunity. For someone

[mikeiow]

It’s always hard making decisions on these things, but my starting point for SJP would be that there isn’t a barge-pole long enough for me to touch them with!
Partly because, as others have suggested, it never quite sounds like it is your wealth they are improving…..partly because of the lock in/fees/terrible press.

Just checking a few of my pension/ISA funds over past 3 years: one is at 29.17%, but the rest range from 49.89 to 145.18%.

Good luck, let us know what you do!

[jakesmith]

Thanks for the comments so far.

Where I have issues is that I don’t presently have the time or headspace to do this myself DIY. I feel it would be risky in its own right for me to try and do this without sufficient background knowledge.

What’s the alternatives available to me? It can’t be as polarised as on one had a FOF with high entry and ongoing charges and returns that look impressive but actually aren’t stellar. Or trying to pick manage investments myself with zero knowledge/ background? There must be a middle ground or alternative route.

It’s a nearly £300k pension pot. I wouldn’t know where to begin picking trackers, funds, how to assess their quality or deciding if / when to make changes. It’s not an area I have any knowledge or experience in.

Might it be an idea to go back to my WM and ask for some alternative suggestions that carry less upfront / ongoing g fees such as Vanguards / trackers etc?

Appreciate you guys are clued up about this thanks for the help so far

[bitchstewie]

I'd suggest ask them what other options there are.

It's not necessarily a "bad" fund but 2% charges (and from how you've worded it that may be on top of what you're already paying your wealth manager?) mean you're paying a heck of a lot in fees.