Any experience of copper press fit tools?

[grumbas]

I've got a lot of pipework to re-arrange in the loft before doubling up the insulation and over-boarding.

I'm quite happy soldering, but I find it time consuming and I'd need to make lots of joints in tight confined areas where the fire risk would be high, so I'd prefer not to.

Plastic push fit isn't an option due to an ongoing war with the squirrels. I don't want a repeat of the time they chewed through a 40mm shower waste!

So I've been looking at the copper press fittings which seem ideal. However the battery tool seems to be around £700 or so, with manual tools significantly cheaper. The manual tools seem to be either pure brute force bolt cropper style affairs which I doubt would work in tight spaces, or much more compact hydraulic ones which might.

Does anyone have any experience of the various types of tool and able to offer any insight on pros/cons?

[thebraketester]

You could use copper push fit.

[B'stard Child]

thebraketester said:

You could use copper push fit.

I looked at those as I'm in a similar position but they are bloody pricey for the de-mountable ones and still quite spendy for the non de-mountable ones compared to the cost of press fit connectors which have come down in price a lot over recent years

To the OP - it was suggested to me in another thread that you can hire the kit from Nationwide tool hire - if I had a fixed time frame for the activity that's what I'd do but I know the work I need to do won't be quick or easy (replumbing the main heating pipes in a 2 ft crawl space under my insulated ground floor - my concern is using solder fittings underneath PIR)

[B'stard Child]

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Last Thursday if the link doesn't take you to it

[grumbas]

B'stard Child said:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Last Thursday if the link doesn't take you to it

Thanks, I think I've got 3/4 plumbing jobs in the pipeline, at least one will no doubt take longer than a weekend. Similar logic to you - at £120/week it makes more sense to buy and have it in the toolkit.

I guess the question is are the manual ones feasible for occasional DIY use?

[OutInTheShed]

grumbas said:

I've got a lot of pipework to re-arrange in the loft before doubling up the insulation and over-boarding.

I'm quite happy soldering, but I find it time consuming and I'd need to make lots of joints in tight confined areas where the fire risk would be high, so I'd prefer not to.

Plastic push fit isn't an option due to an ongoing war with the squirrels. I don't want a repeat of the time they chewed through a 40mm shower waste!

So I've been looking at the copper press fittings which seem ideal. However the battery tool seems to be around £700 or so, with manual tools significantly cheaper. The manual tools seem to be either pure brute force bolt cropper style affairs which I doubt would work in tight spaces, or much more compact hydraulic ones which might.

Does anyone have any experience of the various types of tool and able to offer any insight on pros/cons?

You need to deal with the fluffy rats.
You can get copper push fit.

The electric soldering tongs might be an option?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324604013966

[Watcher of the skies]

How about compression joints where you don't want to solder? And it's often possible to make up sections not it situe.

[B'stard Child]

grumbas said:

Thanks, I think I've got 3/4 plumbing jobs in the pipeline, at least one will no doubt take longer than a weekend. Similar logic to you - at £120/week it makes more sense to buy and have it in the toolkit.

Until like me you are wedded to a battery system (Milwaulke M18) then it gets real spendy!!!

grumbas said:

I guess the question is are the manual ones feasible for occasional DIY use?

I honestly don't know - I think most professional plumbers/heating engineers would go corded or more likely battery powered ones.

[Belle427]

I can imagine the manual ones will be a pita to use in tight spaces, trying to hold the fittings whilst providing 2 handed leverage to the tool.

[grumbas]

OutInTheShed said:

You need to deal with the fluffy rats.
You can get copper push fit.

The electric soldering tongs might be an option?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324604013966

We're surrounded by woodland, there's no keeping them out, they can chew through more or less anything. They're keeping their distance more now one of our cats is hell bent on catching one!

The electric tongs look interesting. Any first hand experience? My concern would be if they take ages to heat up and then you're crawling around in tight spaces with a branding iron!

[JoshSm]

OutInTheShed said:

The electric soldering tongs might be an option?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324604013966

Those things often don't have a great reputation for being robust/safe. Pretty chunky at the business end too. You can use a torch safely with less clearance.

I'm looked at press tools a few times but never found something I couldn't solder. Even if that meant preassembling it somewhere else and only finishing the final joint or two in situ.

Maybe slightly biased by instinctive distrust of any type of fixed installs relying on o-rings that can't be maintained.

[B'stard Child]

JoshSm said:

I'm looked at press tools a few times but never found something I couldn't solder. Even if that meant preassembling it somewhere else and only finishing the final joint or two in situ.

Maybe slightly biased by instinctive distrust of any type of fixed installs relying on o-rings that can't be maintained.

I think the main appeal for heating engineers is not having to introduce flux into the circuit and speed of the process

I have two heating engineers that I use - one has been using press fit since the process became available and swears by it. The other solders everything and isn’t convinced.

[JoshSm]

B'stard Child said:

JoshSm said:

I'm looked at press tools a few times but never found something I couldn't solder. Even if that meant preassembling it somewhere else and only finishing the final joint or two in situ.

Maybe slightly biased by instinctive distrust of any type of fixed installs relying on o-rings that can't be maintained.

I think the main appeal for heating engineers is not having to introduce flux into the circuit and speed of the process

I have two heating engineers that I use - one has been using press fit since the process became available and swears by it. The other solders everything and isn t convinced.

Never seen modern flux as a big issue as you should flush it anyway. I can understand speed being appealing.

Thing is they aren't the ones who'll be stuck with it if the o-rings turn to cheese a few years down the line - heating circuits especially are unforgiving. It's bad enough when it's just a valve or something like that where at least it can be fixed when the rubber gives up after being cooked.

Cold water circuits you might get more life out of it I guess.

[OutInTheShed]

JoshSm said:

OutInTheShed said:

The electric soldering tongs might be an option?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324604013966

Those things often don't have a great reputation for being robust/safe. Pretty chunky at the business end too. You can use a torch safely with less clearance.

I'm looked at press tools a few times but never found something I couldn't solder. Even if that meant preassembling it somewhere else and only finishing the final joint or two in situ.

Maybe slightly biased by instinctive distrust of any type of fixed installs relying on o-rings that can't be maintained.

Your distrust of O rings might be matched by my distrust of crimp joins done in awkward circumstances.

I tend to agree that most things can be soldered with a flame, but as an amateur, I can take the time to create whatever heat shield is needed.
A tradesman can't take an hour to do one awkward joint.

[grumbas]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Consensus seems to be splash out (man maths can probably be made to add up) or persevere/improvise with soldering.

[B'stard Child]

JoshSm said:

B'stard Child said:

JoshSm said:

I'm looked at press tools a few times but never found something I couldn't solder. Even if that meant preassembling it somewhere else and only finishing the final joint or two in situ.

Maybe slightly biased by instinctive distrust of any type of fixed installs relying on o-rings that can't be maintained.

I think the main appeal for heating engineers is not having to introduce flux into the circuit and speed of the process

I have two heating engineers that I use - one has been using press fit since the process became available and swears by it. The other solders everything and isn t convinced.

Never seen modern flux as a big issue as you should flush it anyway. I can understand speed being appealing.

Speed is definitely a factor - also the ability to work on pipes with water content (ie drain down completed but not all pipes fully draining plays havoc with a soldering process)

JoshSm said:

Thing is they aren't the ones who'll be stuck with it if the o-rings turn to cheese a few years down the line - heating circuits especially are unforgiving. It's bad enough when it's just a valve or something like that where at least it can be fixed when the rubber gives up after being cooked.

Cold water circuits you might get more life out of it I guess.

It's been around for quite a long time in Europe - I think on a low temp system it's unlikely to be an issue - high temps systems maybe your concerns are valid

[B'stard Child]

Having done a lot of youtube viewing to see if the hand (hydraulic) press tools are any good I’ve said sod it and bought a z press kit

My underfloor space is a bit restrictive for the best performing hand press (extending arms crimp)