Peugeot vs. Renault.... Who was the hot hatch "King"?
Discussion
Other hot hatches were also available. Ford were cheap and looked the part but Escort Cosworth aside were off the pace both in terms of performance and dynamically, Vauxhalls were fast but dynamically a bit unsophisticated and the Golf GTi was the best all-round car but not the best in terms of thrills. For me the 80s was all about these two.
The Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9 was my attainable dream car and it s easy to forget how significant a car the 205 was for Peugeot. Prior to the 205, Peugeot had a reputation for toughness and durability but were possibly a bit dull and not very aspirational. The 205 was the beginning of a golden era for Peugeot (106/306/405/406) where they were renowned for pretty styling and excellent driving dynamics. They did have a bit of a reputation for twitchy handling (lift off oversteer) but my 205 GTi 1.6 had a beautiful balance and is one of the most fun and fastest point-to-point cars on a twisty B road that I have ever owned. Although mine met with an untimely demise, it wasn t the car s fault and it didn t meet its maker going backwards through a hedge as legend foretells. Was the Clio 16v/Williams better than the 205? Possibly. A more modern design, a bit more power from that revvier 16v engine and maybe a bit more neutral handling from what I ve read. I can t say I ve never driven one.
The R5 GTT was a car that I never got to own but I did look at a white GTT on a J plate as a candidate for my first car. My late grandma had left me half the money (2k) to buy a car in trust with my parents and I had saved up the rest but my parents vetoed the GTT, as I had been known to be a bit of an overexuberant driver so they thought that me and a lightweight turbocharged hot hatch might be a bad combination, so I ended up with a boring Astra 1.4 instead. I did have a bit of a thing for the Phase 1 Renault 19 16v too though and seriously considered one before buying my 205 GTi 2 years later but for me I think the 205 was still really the one .
Fast forward a couple of years and I was in a position to buy my first new/nearly new car. I had been in and out of the local Peugeot dealership for parts during my 205 ownership but the 106 and 306 were both being phased out by then, so the only sporty Peugeot in the dealership was the 206 GTi/CC ( I rarely saw any 106/306 GTis/Rallyes in). I had high hopes for the new 206 GTi 180 but it was pricey and the motoring press widely panned that car whilst simultaneously heaping praise on the Clio 172 Cup/182. I excitedly booked myself in for a test drive in the then new Clio 182 thinking that was going to be the one but came away very disappointed. The engine was lacking in character, it didn t feel that quick and sounded quite industrial, the driving position also felt all wrong. Too high, massive steering wheel with the rake of a bus and I just felt like it lacked the finesse/delicacy of the 205. Sometimes you just don t get a car the first time that you drive it and I often think that might have been the case with the Clio 182, as everyone else seemed to love them. I also tried a Ford Puma, which didn t really do it for me either, an EP3 Civic Type R which I loved and had a cracking engine but I couldn t afford to insure, and R53 MINI Cooper S which I liked but there was still a 6 month waiting list at the time and a Celica 190, which I quite liked. In the end, I ended up with an NB MX5, as I wanted to try something RWD and a bit different but I never really bonded with it and conceptually, I think that a hot hatch is more me.
In retrospect, I wish that I had tracked down an S2 106 Rallye/GTi/306 GTi-6. My reasoning at the time was that the 106 Rallye had less power than my 205 and the GTi about the same but didn t look quite as iconic as the 205 GTi and it had that cramped, offset pedal box that the 205 didn t suffer from. I think that the 306 was an older car at the time (this was 2004, the last GTi-6s were 2000 on an X plate?) but maybe I would have liked a 106/306 GTi/Rallye even more than the 205?
So Peugeot made maybe 5 great hot hatches over maybe a 15 year window? 205, 309, 306 and if we count both S1 and S2 106s, the S1 Rallye and the S2 Rallye/GTi. I know that there have been 208/308 GTis more recently but they have never appeared to be front-runners in their respective classes and lack the "magic" of their 80s/90s counterparts, as possibly the "base" car (205/106/306) was so good compared to the competition at the time, whereas the modern 208/308 are distinctly average.
Renault has a much more prolific hot hatch history going right from the 1980s to the 2020s: R5/R11 Turbo, 4 generations of Clio (although whether the last generation EDC-equipped Clio RS is one of the greats is debatable) and 3 generations of Megane (accepting that the 1st generation Megane didn t really have an RS version) but to be honest I ve never driven any of the hot Renaults after the Clio 182. I ve heard that they re excellent though and if Porsche were to build a hot hatch, it would drive like an RS Renault. Would it be fair to say that the RS Renaults handle a bit more neutrally than the 80s/90s Peugeots, so perform better on track but are possibly a bit less entertaining on a B road?
I d really like to try one of the last mk3 Clio RS200s but I think that the Fiesta ST (another car that I have yet to try) might appeal to me a bit more, as it s a bit more playful like the old Peugeots? Although they seemed a bit silly at the time, I also think that the more extreme versions of the Megane II RS (R26.R etc) are really cool and I do quite fancy a Megane 4 RS (the final generation 5 door one) as a fun but practical family car, even though there aren t that many around as everyone seemed to buy a Golf R or a Hyundai i30N instead but I do think that these look fantastic.
So for me, the 205 GTi was the best Peugeot hot hatch (but in fairness I have not driven the hot 106s/306s) and the Megane 4 RS is probably the Renault hot hatch that I have the most desire to own now.
So what in your opinion was the best Peugeot and best Renault hot hatch and on balance, did Peugeot or Renault make the best hot hatches?
The Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9 was my attainable dream car and it s easy to forget how significant a car the 205 was for Peugeot. Prior to the 205, Peugeot had a reputation for toughness and durability but were possibly a bit dull and not very aspirational. The 205 was the beginning of a golden era for Peugeot (106/306/405/406) where they were renowned for pretty styling and excellent driving dynamics. They did have a bit of a reputation for twitchy handling (lift off oversteer) but my 205 GTi 1.6 had a beautiful balance and is one of the most fun and fastest point-to-point cars on a twisty B road that I have ever owned. Although mine met with an untimely demise, it wasn t the car s fault and it didn t meet its maker going backwards through a hedge as legend foretells. Was the Clio 16v/Williams better than the 205? Possibly. A more modern design, a bit more power from that revvier 16v engine and maybe a bit more neutral handling from what I ve read. I can t say I ve never driven one.
The R5 GTT was a car that I never got to own but I did look at a white GTT on a J plate as a candidate for my first car. My late grandma had left me half the money (2k) to buy a car in trust with my parents and I had saved up the rest but my parents vetoed the GTT, as I had been known to be a bit of an overexuberant driver so they thought that me and a lightweight turbocharged hot hatch might be a bad combination, so I ended up with a boring Astra 1.4 instead. I did have a bit of a thing for the Phase 1 Renault 19 16v too though and seriously considered one before buying my 205 GTi 2 years later but for me I think the 205 was still really the one .
Fast forward a couple of years and I was in a position to buy my first new/nearly new car. I had been in and out of the local Peugeot dealership for parts during my 205 ownership but the 106 and 306 were both being phased out by then, so the only sporty Peugeot in the dealership was the 206 GTi/CC ( I rarely saw any 106/306 GTis/Rallyes in). I had high hopes for the new 206 GTi 180 but it was pricey and the motoring press widely panned that car whilst simultaneously heaping praise on the Clio 172 Cup/182. I excitedly booked myself in for a test drive in the then new Clio 182 thinking that was going to be the one but came away very disappointed. The engine was lacking in character, it didn t feel that quick and sounded quite industrial, the driving position also felt all wrong. Too high, massive steering wheel with the rake of a bus and I just felt like it lacked the finesse/delicacy of the 205. Sometimes you just don t get a car the first time that you drive it and I often think that might have been the case with the Clio 182, as everyone else seemed to love them. I also tried a Ford Puma, which didn t really do it for me either, an EP3 Civic Type R which I loved and had a cracking engine but I couldn t afford to insure, and R53 MINI Cooper S which I liked but there was still a 6 month waiting list at the time and a Celica 190, which I quite liked. In the end, I ended up with an NB MX5, as I wanted to try something RWD and a bit different but I never really bonded with it and conceptually, I think that a hot hatch is more me.
In retrospect, I wish that I had tracked down an S2 106 Rallye/GTi/306 GTi-6. My reasoning at the time was that the 106 Rallye had less power than my 205 and the GTi about the same but didn t look quite as iconic as the 205 GTi and it had that cramped, offset pedal box that the 205 didn t suffer from. I think that the 306 was an older car at the time (this was 2004, the last GTi-6s were 2000 on an X plate?) but maybe I would have liked a 106/306 GTi/Rallye even more than the 205?
So Peugeot made maybe 5 great hot hatches over maybe a 15 year window? 205, 309, 306 and if we count both S1 and S2 106s, the S1 Rallye and the S2 Rallye/GTi. I know that there have been 208/308 GTis more recently but they have never appeared to be front-runners in their respective classes and lack the "magic" of their 80s/90s counterparts, as possibly the "base" car (205/106/306) was so good compared to the competition at the time, whereas the modern 208/308 are distinctly average.
Renault has a much more prolific hot hatch history going right from the 1980s to the 2020s: R5/R11 Turbo, 4 generations of Clio (although whether the last generation EDC-equipped Clio RS is one of the greats is debatable) and 3 generations of Megane (accepting that the 1st generation Megane didn t really have an RS version) but to be honest I ve never driven any of the hot Renaults after the Clio 182. I ve heard that they re excellent though and if Porsche were to build a hot hatch, it would drive like an RS Renault. Would it be fair to say that the RS Renaults handle a bit more neutrally than the 80s/90s Peugeots, so perform better on track but are possibly a bit less entertaining on a B road?
I d really like to try one of the last mk3 Clio RS200s but I think that the Fiesta ST (another car that I have yet to try) might appeal to me a bit more, as it s a bit more playful like the old Peugeots? Although they seemed a bit silly at the time, I also think that the more extreme versions of the Megane II RS (R26.R etc) are really cool and I do quite fancy a Megane 4 RS (the final generation 5 door one) as a fun but practical family car, even though there aren t that many around as everyone seemed to buy a Golf R or a Hyundai i30N instead but I do think that these look fantastic.
So for me, the 205 GTi was the best Peugeot hot hatch (but in fairness I have not driven the hot 106s/306s) and the Megane 4 RS is probably the Renault hot hatch that I have the most desire to own now.
So what in your opinion was the best Peugeot and best Renault hot hatch and on balance, did Peugeot or Renault make the best hot hatches?
Biased but for me the series 1 106 rallye. The engine and gearbox match was great. I owned an S2 in indigo blue for 4 years in my 20s and loved it. Put a 16v jp4 engine in but part of me wished id kept the 8v original.
I miss the pureness of it. The intentional weight saving design all over and its inherent simplicity.
Never drove any renaults though. Pal had a clio 182. Another had a gti-6. Both rapid when you are 19 and come from a 1 litre engine. I do miss this era of cars but maybe rose tinted glasses.
I miss the pureness of it. The intentional weight saving design all over and its inherent simplicity.
Never drove any renaults though. Pal had a clio 182. Another had a gti-6. Both rapid when you are 19 and come from a 1 litre engine. I do miss this era of cars but maybe rose tinted glasses.
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